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Gerda Dunckel's Synchronized Couch And Darnell Clips


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He was running across the Elm St. extension and turned to his right, once across.

Joe Molina and Buell Wesley Frazier were both asked, during their testimony to the WC, if they had seen a white helmeted motorcycle cop enter the TSBD, and neither recalled seeing one.

The only reference to Baker entering the TSBD by a witness on the steps is in the FBI report of an interview with Pauline Saunders. However, she was not called to testify before the WC and the FBI report, written in the 3rd person and not signed by Ms. Saunders, is a highly suspect piece of FBI "evidence".

The right hand side of the steps were more crowded than the side PM was on.

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He was running across the Elm St. extension and turned to his right, once across.

Joe Molina and Buell Wesley Frazier were both asked, during their testimony to the WC, if they had seen a white helmeted motorcycle cop enter the TSBD, and neither recalled seeing one.

The only reference to Baker entering the TSBD by a witness on the steps is in the FBI report of an interview with Pauline Saunders. However, she was not called to testify before the WC and the FBI report, written in the 3rd person and not signed by Ms. Saunders, is a highly suspect piece of FBI "evidence".

The right hand side of the steps were more crowded than the side PM was on.

Robert,

I guess you've proved it -- Baker didn't run up the front steps. Instead, he ran real fast across the Elm Street Extension, jumped up on the sidewalk, and continued running towards the corner for some very puzzling reason. If he was running to the corner (why would he do that?) from the very beginning, why wouldn't he have taken the shortest path from his motorcycle and run diagonally down the street, instead?

--Tommy :sun

Edited by Thomas Graves
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The WC lawyers never asked that question of Frazier or Molina.

The reason the middle of the steps was not crowded is because there was a hand rail running down the middle of the steps.

Edited by Robert Prudhomme
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The WC lawyers never asked that question of Frazier or Molina.

The reason the middle of the steps was not crowded is because there was a hand rail running down the middle of the steps.

Yes, Robert. There was.

So are you convinced that Baker didn't run up the steps?

Yes or No.

--Tommy :sun

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I can't say I'm really convinced of anything at this point. I do know that the only two eyewitnesses who testified to seeing Baker going up the steps were Shelley and Lovelady, and their testimonies amount to nothing more than fabrications on other points.

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I can't say I'm really convinced of anything at this point. I do know that the only two eyewitnesses who testified to seeing Baker going up the steps were Shelley and Lovelady, and their testimonies amount to nothing more than fabrications on other points.

And Truly, whom I believe Sean Murphy originally spotted? Didn't he say Baker went through the front door?

UNhPeGj.jpg

prayermandesh12fps100c4k1m.gif

--Tommy :sun

PS I think the big guy seen turning in the middle is the elusive Jack Dougherty, whom Truly called "a great big burly fellow."

Edited by Thomas Graves
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Well, he would say that, wouldn't he?

Gee, I don't know Robert.

Say what? That Jack Dougherty was a "great big husky fellow?"

Yes, I suppose he would, wouldn't he.

--Tommy :sun

Edited by Thomas Graves
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No, Truly would say that Baker entered the TSBD.

Truly also testified that he was borne back to the TSBD steps by a panicky retreating mob. The film does not support this, either.

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No, Truly would say that Baker entered the TSBD.

Truly also testified that he was borne back to the TSBD steps by a panicky retreating mob. The film does not support this, either.

Holy Toledo!

They carried him there?

I certainly don't see that in the film.

I only see four or five people running towards it around him, a bunch of people walking towards it around him, and several people walking up the steps in front of him.

But I don't see them carrying him for crying out loud.

My God, what a prevaricator he was!

--Tommy :sun

Edited by Thomas Graves
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No, they didn't exactly carry him. Here is his testimony to the WC:

"Mr. TRULY. I heard an explosion, which I thought was a toy cannon or a loud firecracker from west of the building. Nothing happened at this first explosion. Everything was frozen. And immediately after two more explosions, which I realized that I thought was a gun, a rifle of some kind.

The President's--I saw the President's car swerve to the left and stop somewheres down in this area. It is misleading here. And that is the last I saw of his ear, because this crowd, when the third shot rang out--there was a large crowd all along this abutment here, this little wall, and there was some around us in front--they began screaming and falling to the ground. And the people in front of myself and Mr. Campbell surged back, either in terror or panic. They must have seen this thing. I became separated from Mr. Campbell. They just practically bore me back to the first step on the entrance of our building.
Mr. BELIN. When you saw the President's car seem to stop, how long did it appear to stop?
Mr. TRULY. It would be hard to say over a second or two or something like that. I didn't see I just saw it stop. I don't know. I didn't see it start up.
Mr. BELIN. Then you stopped looking at it, or you were distracted by something else?
Mr. TRULY. Yes. The crowd in front of me kind of congealed around me and bore me back through weight of numbers, and I lost sight of it.
I think there were a lot of people trying to get out of the way of something. They didn't know what.
Mr. BELIN. Then what did you do or see?
Mr. TRULY. I heard a policeman in this area along here make a remark, "Oh, goddam," or something like that. I just remember that. It wasn't a motorcycle policeman. It was one of the Dallas policeman, I think-- words to that effect."

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No, they didn't exactly carry him. Here is his testimony to the WC:

"Mr. TRULY. I heard an explosion, which I thought was a toy cannon or a loud firecracker from west of the building. Nothing happened at this first explosion. Everything was frozen. And immediately after two more explosions, which I realized that I thought was a gun, a rifle of some kind.

The President's--I saw the President's car swerve to the left and stop somewheres down in this area. It is misleading here. And that is the last I saw of his ear, because this crowd, when the third shot rang out--there was a large crowd all along this abutment here, this little wall, and there was some around us in front--they began screaming and falling to the ground. And the people in front of myself and Mr. Campbell surged back, either in terror or panic. They must have seen this thing. I became separated from Mr. Campbell. They just practically bore me back to the first step on the entrance of our building.

Mr. BELIN. When you saw the President's car seem to stop, how long did it appear to stop?

Mr. TRULY. It would be hard to say over a second or two or something like that. I didn't see I just saw it stop. I don't know. I didn't see it start up.

Mr. BELIN. Then you stopped looking at it, or you were distracted by something else?

Mr. TRULY. Yes. The crowd in front of me kind of congealed around me and bore me back through weight of numbers, and I lost sight of it.

I think there were a lot of people trying to get out of the way of something. They didn't know what.

Mr. BELIN. Then what did you do or see?

Mr. TRULY. I heard a policeman in this area along here make a remark, "Oh, goddam," or something like that. I just remember that. It wasn't a motorcycle policeman. It was one of the Dallas policeman, I think-- words to that effect."

Well, at least he told the truth about the limo's stopping, right?

I's amazing how those crafty devils would mix in a little truth with a whole lot of lies, huh?

The point I think he was trying to make is that there was a lot of commotion going on around him, a lot of people were either running or walking towards the TSBD front entrance, and this motivated him to go there, too.

--Tommy :sun

Edited by Thomas Graves
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From the perspective we are viewing the steps, would we be able to see that much of Baker's leg, if he were going up the stairs? I hate to say it but, it still looks as if he is running right past the stairs.

On hold for more "analysis."

You might be right, Robert.

Meanwhile, for your viewing pleasure, a great stabilized, "slow mo" Darnell gif by Gerda Dunckel which shows Baker running between my big, turning "Jack Dougherty" and the dark-suited guy who sidesteps out of the way and motions Baker up the steps with his left hand. Baker runs behind that guy, not in front of him as I previously thought.

Darnell sequence. 94 frames, 6 frames per second, 5.9 MB

bakerdashlargecrop2dey5kdj.gif

So, it looks like you're correct, Robert.

Why would Baker veer and go to the right?

To go up the less-crowded middle or right part of the steps, perhaps?

--Tommy :sun

From the perspective we are viewing the steps, would we be able to see that much of Baker's leg, if he were going up the stairs? I hate to say it but, it still looks as if he is running right past the stairs.

I've been trying to figure out why Baker's leg looks like it does at this point - as if he's going up the steps - but I think he's actually stepping up onto the sidewalk that ran in front of the TSBD alongside the Elm Street extension road (look back at the TSBD photo I posted and you'll see the sidewalk and it looks like the height increases as it goes further down the street, so may have been relatively high at the point Baker reaches it).

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No, they didn't exactly carry him. Here is his testimony to the WC:

"Mr. TRULY. I heard an explosion, which I thought was a toy cannon or a loud firecracker from west of the building. Nothing happened at this first explosion. Everything was frozen. And immediately after two more explosions, which I realized that I thought was a gun, a rifle of some kind.

The President's--I saw the President's car swerve to the left and stop somewheres down in this area. It is misleading here. And that is the last I saw of his ear, because this crowd, when the third shot rang out--there was a large crowd all along this abutment here, this little wall, and there was some around us in front--they began screaming and falling to the ground. And the people in front of myself and Mr. Campbell surged back, either in terror or panic. They must have seen this thing. I became separated from Mr. Campbell. They just practically bore me back to the first step on the entrance of our building.

Mr. BELIN. When you saw the President's car seem to stop, how long did it appear to stop?

Mr. TRULY. It would be hard to say over a second or two or something like that. I didn't see I just saw it stop. I don't know. I didn't see it start up.

Mr. BELIN. Then you stopped looking at it, or you were distracted by something else?

Mr. TRULY. Yes. The crowd in front of me kind of congealed around me and bore me back through weight of numbers, and I lost sight of it.

I think there were a lot of people trying to get out of the way of something. They didn't know what.

Mr. BELIN. Then what did you do or see?

Mr. TRULY. I heard a policeman in this area along here make a remark, "Oh, goddam," or something like that. I just remember that. It wasn't a motorcycle policeman. It was one of the Dallas policeman, I think-- words to that effect."

Well, at least he told the truth about the limo's stopping, right?

I's amazing how those crafty devils would mix in a little truth with a whole lot of lies, huh?

The point I think he was trying to make is that there was a lot of commotion going on around him, a lot of people were either running or walking towards the TSBD front entrance, and this motivated him to go there, too.

--Tommy :sun

Watch the film again, Thomas. Truly is already back at the steps, if that is him we see there in the Couch film. Do you see anyone falling to the ground? Do you see a "surge" of people pushing Truly? I don't. For Truly to have crossed the Elm St. extension and be at the foot of the stairs in the Couch film, he almost had to leave his position as the limo was passing him.

If he was just in a hurry to get back to work, why not say so to the WC? Why make up this story about a non-existent surge of panicky people pushing him back to the stairs?

P.S.

If that is not Truly we see near the foot of the stairs in the Couch film, and he is still standing with Campbell on Elm St., then his entire story about his encounter with Baker is a fabrication.

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A little piece here for the people at ROKC. Recently, Pat Speer has speculated that PM is a woman, and her name is Sarah Stanton. Here is something that casts a bit of doubt on this speculation:

"Pauline Saunders: (3-19-64 statement to the FBI, 22H672) “At approximately 12:20 PM on November 22, 1963, I left the lunchroom on the second floor of the building and went out the front entrance to await the arrival of the presidential motorcade which I knew was due to pass the Depository about 12:30 PM. I took up a position at the top of the front steps of the Depository building facing Elm Street. To the best of my recollection, I was standing on the top step at the east end of the entrance. I recall that while standing there I noticed Mrs. Sarah Stanton standing next to me, but I am unsure as to the others."

As we all know, PM was standing at the west end of the steps.

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