I've never seen this film before, similar to Z, but...

[Chris Bristow]

The 'NORTH' sign below the Stemmons sign appears to have a much larger vertical dimension on the day of the assassination than when the Nuns were there to pray, the next day?. Comparing just the vertical dimensions of the North sign with the vertical dimension of the 77 sign  or with the "S" in the word Stemmons, there is a large difference. In the Rickerby photos the 77 sign is about 2.25 times larger than the North sign while in the Nuns photo it is 3 times larger.  In the 'Nuns' photo the 77 sign is mounted higher up, closer to the Stemmons sign to compensate for the smaller north sign. In later photos the north sign has returned to the original size. I have a comp photo here.

 

[Chris Bristow]

One more comp.

 

[David Josephs]

On 12/27/2016 at 2:49 PM, David Josephs said:

Luckily we had someone befriend ROBERT WEST and get from him the notes related to the 3 surveys done prior to the WC which in turn was prompted by a memo from Redlich to Rankin on April 27, 1964...

In each of these 3 surveys, shot #2 is found to have been in relatively the same spot based on vertical distances along the sloping Elm.
The Survey Plat which is shown in ce585 still shows the location for 3 shots hitting a target on Elm.  The final Survey done in May/June 1964 and related to ce884 is overlaid on ce585 showing the shots in relation to the yellow curbs.  The first curb with Moorman & Hill, 2nd Curb by Altgens and 3rd curb near the manhole cover.

Time/Life survey Nov 26th, SS/FBI Dec 2, 3, 4 creates WCD298 and ce875, February 7, 1964 FBI survey plat jives with other two regarding shot location for #2 at z313 4+65 and another shot when the bumper of the limo is over 4+96.  The same FBI agents: Shaneyfelt, Gauthier, Frazier, Rogge and Thompson who were involved in the Dec and Feb reenactments concluding a shot down by the stairs are involved with the WC and their desire to find out what exactly happened - despite the FBI and SS agreeing with the information in WCD298.

Maybe a reading of that memo would help clear things up?  How is it that by April 27, 1964 the Warren Commission does not know if the FBI/SS described scenarios are even physically possible...  what were the first three surveys about?  and why does the final survey contradict their earlier work dramatically?

C'mon Dave, this is direct evidence of the manipulation of evidence related to the shots, the zfilm and even Altgens' statements.  Attached as well is a composite showing how badly these recreations were related to Altgens...

 

• April 27, 1964
   

MEMORANDUM

TO:    J. Lee Rankin

FROM:    Norman Redlich

    The purpose of this memorandum is to explain the reasons why
certain members of the staff feel that it is important to take certain
on-site photographs in connection with the location of the approximate
points at which the three bullets struck the occupants of the
Presidential limousine.

    Our report presumably will state that the President was hit by
the first bullet, Governor Connally by the second, and the President
by the third and fatal bullet.  The report will also conclude that the
bullets were fired by one person located in the sixth floor southeast
corner window of the TSBD building.

    As our investigation now stands, however, we have not shown
that these events could possibly have occurred in the manner suggested
above.  All we have is a reasonable hypothesis which appears to be
supported by the medical testimony but which has not been checked out
against the physical facts at the scene of the assassination.

    Our examination of the Zapruder films shows that the fatal
third shot struck the President at a point which we can locate with
reasonable accuracy on the ground.  We can do this because we know the
exact frame (no. 313) in the film at which the third shot hit the
President and we know the location of the photographer.  By lining up
fixed objects in the movie frame where this shot occurs we feel that
we have determined the approximate location of this shot.  This can be
verified by a photo of the same spot from the point where Zapruder was
standing.

    We have the testimony of Governor and Mrs. Connally that the
Governor was hit with the second bullet at a point which we probably
cannot fix with precision.  We feel we have established, however, with
the help of medical testimony, that the shot which hit the Governor
did not come after frame 240 on the Zapruder film.  The governor feels
that it came around 230, which is certainly consistent with our
observations of the film and with the doctor's testimony.  Since the
President was shot at frame 313, this would leave a time of at least 4
seconds between the two shots, certainly ample for even an
inexperienced marksman.

    Prior to our last viewing of the films with Governor Connally
we had assumed that the President was hit while he was concealed
behind the sign which occurs between frames 215-225.  We have expert
testimony to the effect that a skilled marksman would require a
minimum 2 seconds between shots with this rifle.  Since the camera
operates at 18 1/3 frames per second, there would have to be a minimum
of 40 frames between shots.  It is apparent, therefore, that if
Governor Connally was even as late as frame 240, the President would
have to have been hit no later than frame 190 and probably even
earlier.

    We have not yet examined the assassination scene to determine
whether the assassin in fact could have shot the President prior to
frame 190.  We could locate the position on the ground which
corresponds to this frame and it would then be our intent to establish
by photography that the assassin would have fired the first shot at the
President prior to this point.  Our intention is not to establish the point with complete accuracy,
but merely to substantiate the hypothesis which underlies the conclusions that Oswald was the sole assassin.

    I had always assumed that our final report would be
accompanied by a surveyor's diagram which would indicate the
approximate location of the three shots.  We certainly cannot prepare
such a diagram without establishing that we are describing an
occurrence which is physically possible.  Our failure to do this will,
in my opinion, place this Report in jeopardy since it is a certainty
that others will examine the Zapruder films and raise the same
questions which have been raised by our examination of the films.  If
we do not attempt to answer these observable facts, others may answer
them with facts which challenge our most basic assumptions, or with
fanciful theories based on our unwillingness to test our assumptions
by the investigatory methods available to us.

    I should add that the facts which we now have in our possession, submitted to us in separate reports from the FBI and Secret Service,
are totally incorrect and, if left uncorrected, will present a completely misleading picture.
 
    It may well be that this project should be undertaken by the
FBI and Secret Service with our assistance instead of being done as a
staff project.  The important thing is that the project be undertaken
expeditiously.

 

 

 

 

Bumping for DVP...  

Wondering when a third party surveyor's accurate data becomes the FBI/SS's "opinions" ??

WCD298 was designed to explain the assassination and understand the particulars "without having to be there" as Gauthier puts it...

Wondering also why the FBI needed to make so many "adjustments" to these 3 accurate plats in order to come up with the impossible ce884 limo designations...

Mr. GAUTHIER. Our data to build this were compiled on December 2, 3, and 4. It took about 5 weeks to prepare this exhibit in Washington. 

The attached images shows the 12/5 plat with shot #3 down by 5+00 as CE875 tells us, no photo was taken at 5+00 as this was the impact of the 3rd shot.
It also shows the determination of the location for shot #1 10.2 feet further down Elm than what the WCR finally offers

The distance from 207 to 208 in the original ce884 is 2.3 feet in a single frame x 18.3 fps = 42.09 feet per second = 28.7 mph.
ce884 changes this to 210 bringing the speed down to 2.3/3 = .77 feet per frame x 18.3 = 14.03 feet per second = 9.57 mph yet there is no "210" on the WCR plat or legend while the location for 210 is exactly the same as the original 208.

The surveyor was unaware of how the FBI changed the legend for ce884.  Anyone reading how this revised legend gets into evidence can do little but shake their head...

How can a survey made in May 1964 be the basis for a display of data in January,  Dave?

Mr. GAUTHIER. Our data to build this were compiled on December 2, 3, and 4. It took about 5 weeks to prepare this exhibit in Washington
::::
Mr. SPECTER. Did you participate in the onsite tests made in Dallas? 
Mr. GAUTHIER. I did. 
Mr. SPECTER. Was a survey made of the scene used to record some of the results of that onsite testing? 
Mr. GAUTHIER. Yes. 
Mr. SPECTER. And by whom was the survey made? 
Mr. GAUTHIER. The survey was made on May 24, 1964, by Robert H. West, county surveyor, a licensed State land surveyor, located at 160 County Courthouse, Dallas, Tex. 
Mr. SPECTER. Have you brought the tracing of that survey with you today? 
Mr. GAUTHIER. I have; yes. 
Mr. SPECTER. And have you brought a cardboard reproduction of that? 
Mr. GAUTHIER. A copy made from the tracing; yes. 
Mr. SPECTER. Would you produce the cardboard copy made from the tracing for the inspection of the Commission at this time, please? 
Mr. GAUTHIER. Yes. 
Mr. SPECTER. Would you produce the tracing at this time, please? 
Mr. GAUTHIER. Yes; the tracing is wrapped, and sealed in this container. 
Mr. SPECTER. Without breaking the seal, I will ask you if the cardboard which has been set up here--may the record show it is a large cardboard. I will ask you for the dimensions in just a minute. 
Does the printing on the cardboard represent an exact duplication of the tracing which you have in your hand? 
Mr. GAUTHIER. Yes.

And the new legend is slipped into the record - the FBI and Specter vouching for a copy of a tracing of a copy of an original sealed in a container and NEVER opened.  Luckily thru Tom Purvis we have the original notes of the surveys done prior to May 1964 which shows the alteration and manipulation of evidence resulting in ce884 and a path down Elm which never happened as described.

Mr. SPECTER. I now hand you a schedule which I have marked as Commission Exhibit No. 884 and ask you what figures are contained thereon.
(The document referred to was marked Commission Exhibit No. 884 for identification.) 
Mr. GAUTHIER. This is a copy of a tabulation which appears on the plat map.
It contains certain positions marked as frame numbers. It indicates elevations and a column dealing with angle of sight from the frame positions to the window and to a horizontal line. 
It also contains angels of sight the degree of sight and distances from these positions to a point on the top of the bridge, handrail height. 
Mr. SPECTER. May it please the Commission, that concludes the description of the general setting. 
I would like to move now at this time for the admission into evidence of Exhibit No. 884, which completes all of the exhibits used heretofore. 
Mr. McCLOY. It may be admitted. 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 28, 2017 by David Josephs
remove attachments - no room left

[Michael Clark]

On 6/29/2015 at 1:54 AM, David G. Healy said:

a "fantasy film" that has kept nutters and trolls running in circles for 25 years...

A film which was based on book written by the prosecutor of a court case, that was handed up for an indictment by a grand jury, and prosecuted by an elected District Attourney. That DA served 4 more years before being elected to a judgeship which he held for 14'years until his death.