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John Ritchson
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K.B. wrote: Paul, you have any cites to back this up? I am not as knowledgeable as you when it comes to ballistics etc, and I do not have an expert as Sam does to call re information John has posted, but I do have a few books and a bit of experience reloading and I have won my fair share of Turkey-shoots and as far as I have seen, John Ritchson is right on with everything he has posted that I have read. So who are your Carcano enthusiasts?

Greetings, One of the areas Mr. Burke and the rest of the LNers arereal short on is authoritive cites in the relevent areas being discussed. Rather, their agenda appears to be one of debasement and denegration as examplified by their references to me as a Faker, Fraud, Cowardly Dog, and Buffoon all in a sophmoric attempt to trivialize and obfuscate the importance of my and other researcher's work in this case. These sort of tactics represent the last resort of those who know in their hearts the essential weakness of their case and are thus reduced to ad hominum, having failed to produce any real rebutal.

For the record, I am constantly garnering feed-back and opinions from qualified professionals in the field of firearms ballistics to absolutely minimise any possibility of error before I even post anarticle. I also make every effort to clearly separate qualified facts and opinions from speculation and/or guess-work. Occasionaly I will fail in this effort as is the norm, but the body of my work remains intact and presents a damning indictment to those who would perpetuate the LN myth. Looking at the LN contingent, one sees an impressive array of individuals with credentials and qualifications in every area but the field of firearms ballistics, joined at the hip with the spook crew who post from positions of anonymity. Together, they would have us believe they represent a united front espousing the truth of the JFKassassination when in fact they are nothing more than a collection of bags of mostly hot air with about as much substance as a fart in the wind. :ph34r: Personally I think they know they have already failed to prevent the truth from coming out and are simply engaged in damage control by saturating this forum with BS in an ineffectual attempt to keep relevent discourse to a bare minimum, as well as using their under-handed tactics to create an unsavory atmosphere whereby newreaders will be put off from joining in the discourse. Be that as it may, I'm resolved to undo that sort of mischief, at least as far as the ballistic evidence is concerned, by adding a relevent professional perspective to the JFK case. To that end, I've gained the support of a number of world-class people with impeccable credentials and unassailable reputations in their various fields of expertise. A list of those who have contributed to my work is as follows: Alan Horst, German action specialist and old world gunsmith who declares that one may spend over a thousand dollars reworking a M38 surplus Carcano and still be left with a hundred dollar gun.[Note:]For a varifiable professional alternative opinion of the WWII M38, Alan can be reached at 406-454-1831. Frank de Haas, who started out in this business as a hobbiest after WWII and ultimately became a world renown authority on centerfire turnbolt action rifles with the publication of his book, Bolt Action Rifles, which is now an almost universally held reference manual on the subject. He is a contributing editor of The American Rifleman, and has his shop in Orange City, Iowa. Richard Hobbs, concidered by many including Carcano historian,Alexander Eichener, as a world authority on the Carcano rifle who after examination of CE-139/C2766 concluded it was in fact, a Moschettieri del Duce Carcano of Mussolini's Gardia del Duce, and not a cheap surplus field rifle that would be sold in a Chicago sporting goods store. [Note:] I believe there is an address and Phone# for Richard posted on Alexander Eichener's Carcano web-site. Wolfgang Droege, founder of the Shiloh Rifle Manufacturing Co, Big Timber, Montana and creator of the Buffalo Rifle for Tom Selleck's movie, "Quigley Down Under" who also presented a custom 45-70 gold inlayed Creedmoor Rifle to former president Ronald Reagan.[Note:]Even though Wolfgang is not a Carcano expert per se he does makesome of the world's most powerfull rifles and anyone who doubts the concept of knockdown power should see one of these rifles in action. Richard Casull, founder of Freedom Arms, Freedom Wyoming and creator of the world's most powerfull revolver, the .454 Casull Magnum and like Wolfgang Droege has forgotten more ballistics than most people will ever know.[Note:] Dick openly scoffs at the idea firearms lack knockdown power and is more than happy to give critics a taste of the power of his remarkable pistol which performs on par with many rifles. Wayne Leek, ballistician for the Remington Arms Company and creator of the Fireball XP-100.[Note:] even though Wayne is closed mouthed about the disposition of many of his proto-type XP-100s he is more than happy to expound upon the performance capabilities of one of the world's most powerfull and accurate varmit *HANDGUNS* which BTW, can be fired quite easily from a two-handed combat stance. Bert Waldron, Sniper(US Army) 113 confirmed kills with a varified cartridge expenditure of 1.3 cartridges per kill, as compared to the world infantry expenditure of 10,000 to 50,000 cartridges per kill.[Note:] Bert can be contacted through the editor of Guns Magazine. Also, he is a quiet and unassuming person and if asked about jet-effectand retro-recoil he will just shake his head and smile, but his eyes speak volumes. Craig Roberts, sniper(USMC) 26 year police veteran, specialist in sniper and counter-sniper tactics, author of the book, "Kill Zone"which is a professional sniper's perspective of the JFK assassination which blows the LN theory right out of the water.[Note:] I concider Craig a personal friend and collaborator on the JFK case, and I strongly recommend carefull study of his book. Craig can be reached via email at craig@ionet.net, if memory serves. Carlos(Gunny) Hathcock, sniper(USMC) the Marine Corp's premier sniper with 93 confirmed kills including history's longest single kill-shot of 2,500 meters, nominated for the congressional Medal of Honor for action in Vietnam, former chief instructor of the USMC Sniper's School, at Quantico, Virginia.[Note:] Gunny Hathcock proved the impossibility of the LN scenerio during tests he personally conducted at Quantico and although he is now suffering from MS he is still more than happy to poke holes in the LN scenerio. He can be reached through Craig Roberts. Dr. Joel Ham, professor of physics who wishes to keep his school out of the public debate but has proven by demonstratable scientific method the irrelevency of the jet-effect with respect to firearms ballistics. Dr. George E. Miller, professor of physics and supervisor of the nuclear reactor facilities at UC Irvine who is assisting me with my NAA evaluation of the ballistic evidence. These are some of the people who I concider to be more or less in my corner, who roughly share my views on the subject of firearms ballistics and I urge the readers of this forum to carefully compare these qualified professionals with the collection of political scientists,piss doctors, jet mechanics, computer nerds, wannbes and nobodies that comprise the LN contingent and then ask yourself," Who then is best qualified to address the ballistic issues of the JFK case?" "Who then represents the more credible authority?" "Whose opinions possess the greater validity and are more deserving of serious concideration?" Finally, I want to add that all of the derision, the snide innuendo, the ad hominum lables, the feeble attempts at denegration, the smart-ass remarks and week-kneed mockery heaped upon myself and the other serious researchers on this NG by the LN collection of misfits will not detract me one iota from my agenda and goal of seeing justice done in the JFK case.

With Regard, John Ritchson

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http://www.marinescoutsniper.com/sniper%20pages/Carlos.html

NORFOLK, Va. (Mar 1) -- Gunnery Sergeant Carlos Norman Hathcock II, United States Marine Corps(Ret.), was laid to rest Friday, February 26, at Woodlawn Memorial Gardens in Norfolk, Virginia. Gunnery Sgt. Hathcock was 56.

John Ritchson: Sorry, I believe Gunny Hathcock passed away in 1996. God bless his soul.

John Ritchson: Carlos(Gunny) Hathcock, sniper(USMC) the Marine Corp's premier sniper with 93 confirmed kills including history's longest single kill-shot of 2,500 meters, nominated for the congressional Medal of Honor for action in Vietnam, former chief instructor of the USMC Sniper's School, at Quantico, Virginia.[Note:] Gunny Hathcock proved the impossibility of the LN scenerio during tests he personally conducted at Quantico and although he is now suffering from MS he is still more than happy to poke holes in the LN scenerio. He can be reached through Craig Roberts.

John Ritchson, personally, I believe you are more than qualified to analyze, research and express your opinion on the JFK case. More particularly your expertise seems to be of the highest level with regard to ballistics and the carcano carbine.

Your postings are much appreciated. Your analysis reinforces the fact that President Kennedy was assassinated by more than one rifle and rifleman, positioned in different locations around Dealy Plaza, neither of which was Lee Oswald and his Mannlicher Carcano.

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John,

Have enjoyed your postings on Internal Ballistics and your detailed breakdown of the shortcommings of the 6.5mm Carcano. All very accurate and well described for both those who understand internal ballistics and those who don't.

In noting your associations and references, I was somewhat surprised that you did not mention Dr. Martin Fackler. As one who has been involved with weaponry most of my life and has to rely on critical data on ballistics for part of my profession, it is hard to ignore Dr. Fackler's studies over the past fifty years in the field of ballistics and wound ballistics.

I have a question for you in regards to a post Wim has made numerous times here, at Lancer and on his website, using a quote from you on the XP-100:

"I found the .222 version to be quite manageable with one hand, having no more recoil than my .44 magnum, and in a 2 handed combat stance it can thread a needle at 250 yards. Up to those ranges, the fireball would be a perfect choice for an assassination weapon if portability and concealability were at issue."

When you state "no more recoil than your .44 magnum" that is a negative term in itself, considering the recoil/muzzle flip of the .44 magnum stands above all other handgun factory loads with the exception of the .50AE. I had previously compared it to a .41 magnum, which is considerable in itself. If you consider this load quite manageable with one hand, what would consider not to be manageable with one hand?

When you refer it's accuracy as being able to "thread a needle at 250 yards", I take it that you are using this as a term and not actuality. I and others who have a background in weapons have no problem with the "term", but those who do not take it at face value.

When you refer to the XP-100 as being the "perfect choice for an assassin weapon if portability and concealability were at issue" are you simply referring to this in a generic sense or are you familiar with the Files story and accept that as well. If it is the latter, do you not see an issue with the panning of a moving target at this angle and with varying speeds? Are you also familiar with Files claim to have watched the impact through the optics? And lastly, if you were posted on the north knoll with this assignment, is it really your weapon of choice with everything considered?

In one of your previous postings, I saw that you believed that the headwound was caused by a bullet in the range of the .300 Win Mag. Could you comment on that further?

Thanks,

Al

Edited by Al Carrier
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John,

Have enjoyed your postings on Internal Ballistics and your detailed breakdown of the shortcommings of the 6.5mm Carcano. All very accurate and well described for both those who understand internal ballistics and those who don't.

  Greetings Al and thanks for the kind words.  :huh:

In noting your associations and references, I was somewhat surprised that you did not mention Dr. Martin Fackler. As one who has been involved with weaponry most of my life and has to rely on critical data on ballistics for part of my profession, it is hard to ignore Dr. Fackler's studies over the past fifty years in the field of ballistics and wound ballistics.

  I had a bit of a falling out with Dr. Fackler over the Ruby Ridge Case some years back and we have never reconciled that issue but since it is a rather long story I

can't really get into it at this point. Suffice to say I was not invited to join the IWBA.

I have a question for you in regards to a post Wim has made numerous times here, at Lancer and on his website, using a quote from you on the XP-100:

"I found the .222 version to be quite manageable with one hand, having no more recoil than my .44 magnum, and in a 2 handed combat stance it can thread a needle at 250 yards. Up to those ranges, the fireball would be a perfect choice for an assassination weapon if portability and concealability were at issue."

When you state "no more recoil than your .44 magnum" that is a negative term in itself, considering the recoil/muzzle flip of the .44 magnum stands above all other handgun factory loads with the exception of the .50AE. I had previously compared it to a .41 magnum, which is considerable in itself. If you consider this load quite manageable with one hand, what would consider not to be manageable with one hand?

  I am a big guy with strong hands, wrists and arms but I would think twice about one-handing a short barreled .41 Walker Bulldog. Definently the .454 Mag. or the

.480 Mag. ; the former using factory loads and the latter using handloads. Then there is Dick Casull's monster 45-70 revolver which even at 13 1/2 lbs can be a wrist breaker, although I don't know anyone that has actually fired the weapon. Personally I think he just makes them so his buyers can claim to have the world's most powerfull handgun, but I would bet dollars to doughnuts that the 45-70 probably just sits in the display case. However wildcatters will be wildcatters so I've no idea where this will all end. Hell, we have a man here in Montana, Frank Vanderhule who is playing around with the idea of building an autoloader chambered for the .50 BMG  :unsure:  "Good Luck Frank" Or maybe "GOODBYE".

When you refer it's accuracy as being able to "thread a needle at 250 yards", I take it that you are using this as a term and not actuality. I and others who have a background in weapons have no problem with the "term", but those who do not take it at face value.

  Point Taken.  :o    My use of the term "Thread A Needle" refers to 1MOA accuracy at range in most cases.

When you refer to the XP-100 as being the "perfect choice for an assassin weapon if portability and concealability were at issue" are you simply referring to this in a generic sense or are you familiar with the Files story and accept that as well. If it is the latter, do you not see an issue with the panning of a moving target at this angle and with varying speeds? Are you also familiar with Files claim to have watched the impact through the optics? And lastly, if you were posted on the north knoll with this assignment, is it really your weapon of choice with everything considered?

  I am personally satisfied that the XP-100 could get the job done as it were but I remain very skeptical of the Files scenerio and it would not be my personal choice for an assassination weapon were I planning to kill a head of state. Too many variables from the external ballistic point of view which can and do effect a hot loaded but lightweight projectile are at work. This is especially true if one is expecting to only get off a single shot. I would want a brushbuster if my aim is to effect a one shot one kill scenerio.

In one of your previous postings, I saw that you believed that the headwound was caused by a bullet in the range of the .300 Win Mag. Could you comment on that further?

Thanks,

Al

The violence of the headsnap and the description of the head wound by the Parkland Dr's. plus my personal experiences all lead me to believe that a far more massive bullet actually killed JFK. I picked the .300 Win Mag. because it is fairly easy to rechamber a model 70 Win or 700 Rem to that caliber and it is definently a make sure weapon in terms of killing power, although the venerable '06 or even a .308 can be hot loaded to specs that approach the power of the .300 Win Mag.

I hope this adequately addresses your questions, and welcome to this forum.

Respectfully:

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Al

[/color]

The violence of the headsnap and the description of the head wound by the Parkland Dr's. plus my personal experiences all lead me to believe that a far more massive bullet actually killed JFK. I picked the .300 Win Mag. because it is fairly easy to rechamber a model 70 Win or 700 Rem to that caliber and it is definently a make sure weapon in terms of killing power, although the venerable '06 or even a .308 can be hot loaded to specs that approach the power of the .300 Win Mag.

I hope this adequately addresses your questions, and welcome to this forum.

Respectfully:

Thank you for the information. It was very professional. You are an asset to this form. I too, beleive the above post. I heard the shot and watched the hit. Tosh Plumlee

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  I had a bit of a falling out with Dr. Fackler over the Ruby Ridge Case some years back and we have never reconciled that issue but since it is a rather long story I

can't really get into it at this point. Suffice to say I was not invited to join the IWBA.

The good Doctor is rather strong headed, but has the reputation and background that allows him to be. I have studied his work for many years and still base a good deal of my work off his tests and studies, as do the FBI and even the NIJ for their standards in ballistic vests. His work is easy to understand and work from, but he is not one that can easily be worked with :D

  I am a big guy with strong hands, wrists and arms but I would think twice about one-handing a short barreled .41 Walker Bulldog. Definently the .454 Mag. or the

.480 Mag. ; the former using factory loads and the latter using handloads. Then there is Dick Casull's monster 45-70 revolver which even at 13 1/2 lbs can be a wrist breaker, although I don't know anyone that has actually fired the weapon. Personally I think he just makes them so his buyers can claim to have the world's most powerfull handgun, but I would bet dollars to doughnuts that the 45-70 probably just sits in the display case. However wildcatters will be wildcatters so I've no idea where this will all end. Hell, we have a man here in Montana, Frank Vanderhule who is playing around with the idea of building an autoloader chambered for the .50 BMG  :D  "Good Luck Frank" Or maybe "GOODBYE".

A friend of mine owns a Desert Eagle in .50AE and has recently gotten into hot loading it. The weapon handles it well, but it takes it toll on the shooter. First shot accuracy is decent, but the punishment it causes sacrifices the accuracy thereafter (Partly mental, partly physical LOL).

  Point Taken.  ;)    My use of the term "Thread A Needle" refers to 1MOA accuracy at range in most cases.

I was pretty sure that is what you meant, but just wanted to clarify for others.

  I am personally satisfied that the XP-100 could get the job done as it were but I remain very skeptical of the Files scenerio and it would not be my personal choice for an assassination weapon were I planning to kill a head of state. Too many variables from the external ballistic point of view which can and do effect a hot loaded but lightweight projectile are at work. This is especially true if one is expecting to only get off a single shot. I would want a brushbuster if my aim is to effect a one shot one kill scenerio.

I agree totally. I have issues with the Files type being experienced enough with the weapon to smoothly pan a mover with such a weapon in order to achieve the shot. I also have issues with why anyone would choose this weapon in such a high profile shot.

The violence of the headsnap and the description of the head wound by the Parkland Dr's. plus my personal experiences all lead me to believe that a far more massive bullet actually killed JFK. I picked the .300 Win Mag. because it is fairly easy to rechamber a model 70 Win or 700 Rem to that caliber and it is definently a make sure weapon in terms of killing power, although the venerable '06 or even a .308 can be hot loaded to specs that approach the power of the .300 Win Mag.

I can appreciate that John, but I also believe that even a factory load 168 .308 Win at 2300ftlbs or the 30-06Rem at 2600ftlbs would achieve as much in the scenerio that appears to have developed. With an impact on the right temporal region with a wound trac restricted back to the right occipital, it is apparent, at least to me that the path was shallow under the skull, releasing it's energy against the interior cavity wall and creating the furrough we are dealing with here. While the .300WimMag at 3300ftlbs would hit much harder, I believe the three mentioned above would all give the radical headsnap as seen in the Z-Film. I am not so sure that something as standard as the 5.56x45mm in as light as 55gr would not accomplish as much at the low end 1200ftlbs, considering the dynamics of the FMJ bullet. Whenever I have mentioned this in the past, I have had the LNers jump up and challenge with why then couldn't the 6.5mm MC at roughly the same energy of impact do the same? It is hard to get across to them that even a lighter bullet can achieve greater sustained velocity, consistent dispersion of energy and truer trajectory after impact due to the configuration.

Nice to see you refer to Remington Mod 70 and 700's with your posts. As a Remington Armorer and FA Instructor, I am sold on these rifles and have been involved in the purchasing of 700's for my department's tactical snipers for several years now.

Tosh,

Do you recall meeting at the Americana Hotel in Puerto Limon in '81? I was with Joe F. and John H.. Been alot years and alot has happened since, but I am pretty sure that is where we crossed paths.

Al

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It is really good to see both John Ritchson and Al Carrier on The Education Forum.

I've learned much from both of you men in the past, and the beliefs I've had regarding the ballistics of this case have been validated by both of you, many times. I'm an avid reader of Weisberg, and both of you have clarified and verified just about every question I've been able to think of, so far.

Sincerely,

Terry

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  Richard Hobbs, concidered by many including Carcano historian,Alexander Eichener, as a world authority on the Carcano rifle who after examination of CE-139/C2766 concluded it was in fact, a Moschettieri del Duce Carcano of Mussolini's Gardia del Duce, and not a cheap surplus field rifle that would be sold in a Chicago sporting goods store.  [Note:] I believe there is an address and Phone# for Richard posted on Alexander Eichener's Carcano web-site. 

With Regard,  John Ritchson

John Ritchson

Thank you for participating.

This is about the third time I have come across the statement that the Serial #C2766 attributrd to Oswald on the 6th floor of the TBSD was not a cheap

sporting goods surplus rifle but in fact a Mussolini special from WWII.

Now some will say that this supports the lone gunman (since Oswald had

a better rifle than usually thought) but I am much more interested in

the possibility of falsification, re-serializing, secret CIA/old Nazi stock of guns,

the possibility of frame-ups, second ringer rifle with the same #, the question of how the El Duce piece got into the states, who had guns like these after WWII (answer: Dulles) etc.

Anyone have a comment on the odd paternity and provenance of the Lone Gun

which fired the Magic Bullet?

SHanet

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"....Nice to see you refer to Remington Mod 70 and 700's with your posts. As a Remington Armorer and FA Instructor, I am sold on these rifles and have been involved in the purchasing of 700's for my department's tactical snipers for several years now...."[/i]

Tosh,

Do you recall meeting at the Americana Hotel in Puerto Limon in '81? I was with Joe F. and John H.. Been alot years and alot has happened since, but I am pretty sure that is where we crossed paths.

Al

Reply;

Al, not sure I remember Limon. I was thinking it was at the "Hotel Fortenno (sp) in San Jose?? I do remember meeting when J.H. and F and two others when they were there... Now, after all these years, perhaps I have gotten the two places Limom and San Jose transposed. If I recall, H. had flown in from his ranch, his private plane, either meet F. there or F. had came with him from the private strip on H's ranch. Anyway, shortly after that I went to three different parts of the country on arms and weapons drops. (1) "the hide-a-way" near the Volcano?? (2) Poco Solo's landing strip in the jungles. (3) Santa Elena, aka 'Point West'. ( this was a little before "the bloody mess" that was mentioned some time back)

Anyway. Its good to have you on this forum. I think all of us here, working together, might get some real meaningful work done on this case. I have made some bad mistakes in the past, by trying to help others when they have ask me to speculate or voice my opinion on various topics. (as to what I think might have happen or why THEY did what THEY did, etc.... I trusted some who had other motives which have now become obvious.

Do you remember "Scott Wheeler", a close friend of KIKI's? Did you ever meet 'Bill Cooper' or 'Buzz'? All GOOD MEN, who paid the price. Least we not forget them..., Don't mean to ramble, but... did you ever teach at the "School of the Americas... Fort Benning...???? You remind me of an instructor I once knew there????... Have a good one... Tosh :)

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Al, not sure I remember Limon. I was thinking it was at the "Hotel Fortenno (sp) in San Jose?? I do remember meeting when J.H. and F and two others when they were there... Now, after all these years, perhaps I have gotten the two places Limom and San Jose transposed. If I recall, H. had flown in from his ranch, his private plane, either meet F. there or F. had came with him from the private strip on H's ranch. Anyway, shortly after that I went to three different parts of the country on arms and weapons drops. (1) "the hide-a-way" near the Volcano?? (2) Poco Solo's landing strip in the jungles. (3) Santa Elena, aka 'Point West'. ( this was a little before "the bloody mess" that was mentioned some time back)

Anyway. Its good to have you on this forum. I think all of us here, working together, might get some real meaningful work done on this case. I have made some bad mistakes in the past, by trying to help others when they have ask me to speculate or voice my opinion on various topics. (as to what I think might have happen or why THEY did what THEY did, etc.... I trusted some who had other motives which have now become obvious.

Do you remember "Scott Wheeler", a close friend of KIKI's? Did you ever meet 'Bill Cooper' or 'Buzz'? All GOOD MEN, who paid the price. Least we not forget them..., Don't mean to ramble, but... did you ever teach at the "School of the Americas... Fort Benning...???? You remind me of an instructor I once knew there????... Have a good one... Tosh :)

Tosh,

Pretty sure it was Puerto Limon. Besides JH and JF, it was me and JH's foreman (what an idiot he WAS). Wheeler, yes. Cooper I could pick out of a crowd. In my position, never really got to KNOW anyone, if you know what I mean. Came back to SOA for a short time after coming home and was under Wilson's Cadre for a very short time before going out west for a couple of short assignments. Called it shortly after that. Had issues with the purpose of what was going on and kept an insurance policy locked down and was left alone after that.

I agree that with what is happening now here, we can make some progress. Nice to be working with you and everyone else. Take care...

Al

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The good Doctor is rather strong headed, but has the reputation and background that allows him to be. I have studied his work for many years and still base a good deal of my work off his tests and studies, as do the FBI and even the NIJ for their standards in ballistic vests. His work is easy to understand and work from, but he is not one that can easily be worked with :o

Greetings Al: My differences with Dr. Fackler arose over the issue of Neuro-Muscleculer-Reaction with respect to Marshal Deagan's shooting Sammy Weaver in the back as Sammy was retreating. I acted as a forensic consultant for the defence in the Kevin Harris trial and I personally have some problems with that scenerio. This is just a single issue I've had with Dr. Fackler so I'm not in any way attempting to denigrate all of the other work that he has accomplished in the field.

But, as you may be well aware one does not easily dispute any finding Dr. Fackler may present. Personally the evidence has led me to believe that in the heat of a firefight Marshall Deagan fired at the first warm body he saw which was Sammy running away. Kevin Harris then shot Marshal Deagan in self defence which represents the finding of the jury in that case. I don't know to what extent my personal feedback had on the jury as it were but It appears that among others, Dr. Fackler has put me high up on his personal S-List even though I tried to assure him that there was nothing personal in my views. I recognize that he is a world-class forensic pathologist but as I've tried to point out in other forums there is a difference between analysing a shooting scene after the fact and actually being involved in live-fire combat and witnessing the effects first-hand. NMR and Jet-Effect play little or no role when one is impacted by a high velocity/high energy projectile. Since this is the crux of the LN arguement for the rear shot scenerio it is very important to lay this issue to rest once and for all.

A friend of mine owns a Desert Eagle in .50AE and has recently gotten into hot loading it. The weapon handles it well, but it takes it toll on the shooter. First shot accuracy is decent, but the punishment it causes sacrifices the accuracy thereafter (Partly mental, partly physical LOL).

I just hope your friend doesn't clinch his jaws when he fires off a round. :unsure:

[John Ritchson]

  The violence of the headsnap and the description of the head wound by the Parkland Dr's. plus my personal experiences all lead me to believe that a far more massive bullet actually killed JFK. I picked the .300 Win Mag. because it is fairly easy to rechamber a model 70 Win or 700 Rem to that caliber and it is definently a make sure weapon in terms of killing power, although the venerable '06 or even a .308 can be hot loaded to specs that approach the power of the .300 Win Mag.

I can appreciate that John, but I also believe that even a factory load 168 .308 Win at 2300ftlbs or the 30-06Rem at 2600ftlbs would achieve as much in the scenerio that appears to have developed. With an impact on the right temporal region with a wound trac restricted back to the right occipital, it is apparent, at least to me that the path was shallow under the skull, releasing it's energy against the interior cavity wall and creating the furrough we are dealing with here. While the .300WimMag at 3300ftlbs would hit much harder, I believe the three mentioned above would all give the radical headsnap as seen in the Z-Film. I am not so sure that something as standard as the 5.56x45mm in as light as 55gr would not accomplish as much at the low end 1200ftlbs, considering the dynamics of the FMJ bullet. Whenever I have mentioned this in the past, I have had the LNers jump up and challenge with why then couldn't the 6.5mm MC at roughly the same energy of impact do the same? It is hard to get across to them that even a lighter bullet can achieve greater sustained velocity, consistent dispersion of energy and truer trajectory after impact due to the configuration.

I agree Al, for the same reasons. We're looking at a >2,000 ft/lbs. energy strike here and not a 1,200 ft/lb. strike from a .22 caliber bullet which has a much smaller cone of destruction. Personally I doubt very much that a mercury loaded .22 would even penetrate the skull much less evacuate almost the entire right cerebal cortex in an explosion of matter, mostly to the rear. I witnessed first hand the effects of a Nozler loaded .308 upon a human head fired from about 250ft. and it was very close to what was described by the Parkland Drs. But even then the terminal impact as well as the physical reaction wasn't quite on par. This and other factors have led me to the conclusion that an even higher energy bullet was employed in the JFK kill-shot. As to the 6.5mm FMJ, it is commonly known as a [Humane Bullet] because of it's tendency to create a very small entrance and exit wound giving excellent penetration but dissipating very little energy during terminal transit, any other factors not withstanding. Even the .222 XP-100 would produce a far greater zone of destruction than any 6.5mm FMJ from any commonly loaded caliber.

Nice to see you refer to Remington Mod 70 and 700's with your posts. As a Remington Armorer and FA Instructor, I am sold on these rifles and have been involved in the purchasing of 700's for my department's tactical snipers for several years now.

Yes It's hard to beat the 'Ol 700 Remington or pre-1964 Winchester Model 70 and while I know Craig Roberts is going to jump my butt about this, I'm looking real hard at that Brit .338 auto-loader sniper system the SAS is using. I really like the looks and performance of that rifle. Much more easy to manage and almost the range of the Barret .50 BMG. However, in terms of total energy developed, the .50 BMG is still the heavyweight of all rifles IMHO. I think a .30 caliber DU saboted round fired from that cartridge would break the magic 5,000fps barrier but I don't have the means to test that hypothesis at this point. [i broke about a dozen bonded breech-blocks trying to accomplish that one with the .220 Swift and the Rem. Acc.]

At any rate I am degressing into shop-talk and I want to stay focused upon the topic at hand. :)

I want to thank all of the respondants to this thread, Tosh, Shanet, Terry, Wim

and Antti, I too think we can make some real progress here. And my thanks to John Simkin and Co. who has made this forum possible.

I know while we may not agree on every detail I think we all agree it was not LHO, not from that position, and not with that rifle.

Finally, that rifle I attached to my earlier posts was a proto-type urban sniper rifle

in .308 caliber with a .75MOA accuracy at 300 M, built by the Corsican Armorer, Pietre LaPalm back in the early 60's Which I concider to be far in advance of it's time and a possible candidate for such a kill-shot given its Russian optics and FN Sonic Suppresor as well as a folding stock I think it would be almost as easy to conceal and transport as the Fireball. Check it out against the image Sam McClung was able to resolve from a single frame of the Z-Film if memory serves.

Respectfully:

Edited by John Ritchson
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