Jump to content
The Education Forum

Prayer Man is a Man


Recommended Posts

oswald2.gif

 

This picture seems to be the closest to the time when Prayer Man had been photographed in the Depository doorway. It seems that Lee Oswald wore a silver band above his left wrist and nothing else. Unfortunately, Prayer Man's left wrist des not seem to be visible in Darnell; it would be an excellent clue as to the identity of Prayer Man.    

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 398
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

3 hours ago, Andrej Stancak said:

oswald2.gif

 

This picture seems to be the closest to the time when Prayer Man had been photographed in the Depository doorway. It seems that Lee Oswald wore a silver band above his left wrist and nothing else. Unfortunately, Prayer Man's left wrist des not seem to be visible in Darnell; it would be an excellent clue as to the identity of Prayer Man.    

 

Andrej,

I don't know whether this is helpful.  All of the Prayer Man frames are distorted and blurred to the extent there is nothing that is clear enough to be unarguable.  That image of Prayer Man's right wrist shows a silver band rather than a watch.

prayer-man-crop.jpg

The image is to arguable to say either.  What it says to me, since Oswald's head is cut off at the neck, and there is an alteration and a flip of the image.  I won't defend that suggestion since in is my personal opinion.

I do not trust the people who had these films and images in their possession by any means.

Edited by John Butler
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, John Butler said:

I do not trust the people who had these films and images in their possession by any means.

There is nothing wrong in being cautious when analysing pictures downloaded from a public domain. I hope we will one day get access to a high-resolution, high-quality, certified copies of both the Darnell and Wiegman film.

Edited by Andrej Stancak
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The point some researcher often use to question the possibility of Lee Harvey Oswald being outside just after the last shot rang out is that there are no eyewitnesses who would confirm Oswald's presence or Prayer Man's identity. The problem is that the question of Prayer Man's identity had surfaced so late after the assassination that there are almost no living witnesses who could confirm or refute this possibility. One living witness who could shed light on Prayer Man's identity is Buell Wesley Frazier. 

There seem to be issues with Mr. Frazier's reports about people in the doorway after the shooting that prompt a question of the width of Wesley Frazier's attention span. Prayer Man was an inconspicuous person standing calmly and staying in the doorway for a short period of time of less than a minute. But what about someone clearly attracting attention due to being the first police officer entering the Depository, running up the steps, pushing people away and passing Mr. Frazier at a distance of maybe one foot?  Well, Wesley Frazier did not register even such a major event:

Mr. BALL - Did you see anybody after that come into the Building while you were there?
Mr. FRAZIER - You mean somebody other that didn't work there?
Mr. BALL - A police officer.
Mr. FRAZIER - No, sir; I stood there a few minutes, you know, and some people who worked there; you know normally started to go back into the Building because a lot of us didn't eat our lunch, and so we stared back into the Building and it wasn't but just a few minutes that there were a lot of police officers and so forth all over the Building there.
Mr. BALL - Then you went back into the Building, did you?
Mr. FRAZIER - Right.
Mr. BALL - And before you went back into the Building no police officer came up the steps and into the building?
Mr. FRAZIER - Not that I know. They could walk by the way and I was standing there talking to somebody else and didn't see it.

The point is that if Mr. Frazier did not register a conspicuous person such as a police officer passing at a short distance near him, he may have not been aware of other people standing next to him. Thus, Frazier's lack of awareness of Payer Man's presence in the doorway does not refute the possibility of Lee Oswald being outside the building shortly after the shooting - exactly as he told the Police on Friday in the presence of FBI agent James Hosty.

 

 

Edited by Andrej Stancak
Link to comment
Share on other sites

23 hours ago, Andrew Prutsok said:

Doesn't Prayerman lore suggest Baker never went up the front steps and instead ran parallel to them?

As far as I understand the past posts on this topic, there are reasons, based on the intuitively extended trajectory of Baker's run, to think that Baker ran toward the east corner of the Depository first instead to the main entrance (glass door). However, he would then return immediately to the main entrance and enter the building. The run toward the east corner could cause a delay in Baker's entering the building of some 15-20 seconds. So, whether Baker ran first to the east corner or not, he would anyway enter the building through the door with Wesley Frazier standing next to the same door. However, Frazier denied twice seeing a police officer running into the building and passing him.

The problem with the possibility of Baker running first to the east corner is that there is no single testimony confirming such deviation from the official trajectory of Baker's run which was his running straight to the building.

On the other hand, my calculations (which require testing in a real building) suggest that Baker would reach the 2nd floor too soon unless he spent time with e.g., checking the east corner before entering the building, sooner than about 1 min 18 s obtained in FBI's reconstruction of Baker's movements.

Actually, the delay caused by Baker first running to the east corner of the building (maybe to check the fire escape stairs) would explain how could Lee Oswald feature as Prayer Man and still meet Baker on the second floor.  If Baker first went to check the east corner and delayed his entering the building by about 20 seconds, this would allow Lee Oswald to leave the doorway, check the storage spaces (one on the first floor and another on the second floor next to the passenger lift), get to the 2nd floor via the stairs starting in the front lobby, walk through the 2nd floor hallway and enter the 2nd floor lunchroom from the hallway area of the second floor. 

However, irrespective of the uncertainty of Baker's movements, Baker would climb the steps of the doorway while Frazier was standing up there on the op landing and Frazier would have to notice him. If he did not see Baker, why can he be trusted in spotting anyone else?

 

 

Edited by Andrej Stancak
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 months later...

More on connecting the dots. Does Oswald's/Prayer Man's behaviour reveal a foreknowledge of some kind of an incident supposed to happen during the motorcade?

I have analysed behaviours of witnesses (or pairs of people) of whom some had a foreknowledge of a possible incident involving shooting and others did not have any foreknowledge. This table shows the people selected for my analysis and a list of units of behaviour considered.

screen-shot-2016-11-17-at-9.28.40-am.png

All details and footnotes are in my essay: https://thejfktruthmatters.wordpress.com/2021/03/28/symptoms-of-foreknowledge/

It seems to me that Oswald's/Prayer Man's behaviour matched Marvin Holt's behaviour quite closely. Holt had a foreknowledge of a possible incident, possibly involving a mock shooting, however, in no case did he expect four shots. Holt immediately recognised the meaning of the shots and also realised that he was likely set up and therefore, he sought a hide out in a boxcar where he was joined by two other individuals. Holt did not explore the scene, he rather made an effort to escape. Prayer Man (Oswald) behaved similarly. Prayer Man appeared not interested in exploring the scene (Grassy Knoll or Triple Underpass), he rather gazed in opposite direction, unlike anyone in the doorway. Prayer Man shows signs of defensive behaviour, possibly contemplating leaving the Depository in direction of East Elm Street. Indeed, Oswald left the building within a few minutes from North Houston and onto East Elm Street.

My analysis discards the possibility of Oswald being a member of an abort team. I have compared Oswald's/Prayer man's behaviour with movements and decisions of two abort teams: Sergio and Plumlee, and J. Goode and Robert Nash. Somehow, a mission to abort a potential assassination would be difficult to achieve while sitting in Domino room or standing in the Depository doorway... Furthermore, being a member of an abort team did not entail having own rifle in the building.

 

 

 

 

 

  

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

To answer the question about Prayer Man: I have been looking at this all day, and I can tell you this: I 100% have no idea who that person is. I can also tell you 100% that is not Lee Harvey Oswald. First, Lee was not out there. I know that to be true. Second, for anyone who thinks Prayer Man is Lee, the individual has a much larger frame than Lee."
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Tony:

Sure, the only thing missing is who in Mr. Frazier's opinion this man was. Mr. Frazier seems to be genuinely surprised that somebody had stood in his vicinity during the seconds after the shooting. Mr. Frazier was not aware of the presence of this man standing next to him and it therefore, could be anybody, including Lee Oswald. However, Mr. Frazier was not even aware that a police officer walked through the glass door while he was still in the doorway, so it does not surprise me he could not recall seeing Prayer Man who behaved inconspicuously and spent only a short time in the doorway.

You may have noted my post on Mr. Frazier Facebook page asking for his comment. I am more than happy to admit that Prayer Man was not Lee Oswald once Mr. Frazier says who that man was and after it could be verified.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 3/29/2021 at 8:22 AM, Andrej Stancak said:

Tony:

Sure, the only thing missing is who in Mr. Frazier's opinion this man was. Mr. Frazier seems to be genuinely surprised that somebody had stood in his vicinity during the seconds after the shooting. Mr. Frazier was not aware of the presence of this man standing next to him and it therefore, could be anybody, including Lee Oswald. However, Mr. Frazier was not even aware that a police officer walked through the glass door while he was still in the doorway, so it does not surprise me he could not recall seeing Prayer Man who behaved inconspicuously and spent only a short time in the doorway.

You may have noted my post on Mr. Frazier Facebook page asking for his comment. I am more than happy to admit that Prayer Man was not Lee Oswald once Mr. Frazier says who that man was and after it could be verified.

Andrej,

Excellent reasoning.  This further sets off alarms concerning Frazier.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I am afraid that we will not hear more from Mr. Frazier than what wrote on his Facebook page: "I 100% have no idea who this person is. I can tell you 100% that is not Lee Harvey Oswald". He gives two reasons: One, he simply knows this to be true. But how can he know and what reason leads him to say that he knows this to be true? It sounds more like following a collective agreement about who stood in the doorway. Second, Mr. Frazier thinks that this person has a much larger frame than Lee. But here, I am afraid, he relies on reading from a photograph, and as unhumble as it may sound, I see no reason why Mr. Frazier's opinion would be more relevant than other people's opinion. He saw him 57 years ago; other people studied all available photographs and films showing Lee Oswald and even did a 3D model of his figure, meaning they explored every single detail of Lee Oswald's body. I even consulted Oswald's stance with an orthopedist to hear more expert opinion on Lee's unusual postures and walking.

How can we actually even imagine that Mr. Frazier would suddenly agree that this person could be Lee Oswald? This would crash the whole Warren Commission version of Lee Oswald's guilt.

I am reading Mr. Frazier's new book "Steering Truth" and hope to understand his behaviour and attitudes better. 

Late edit:

What can also be read from Mr. Frazier's statement "I have been looking at this all day" is that he genuinely did not have awareness about the presence of this man who happened to stand some 2-3 feet away from him just after the shooting. The photograph did not revive any memory recollections in form "Oh yes, I remember now, this is XY, he ..." . Mr. Frazier is approaching Prayer Man as an entirely new object. This suggests that Mr. Frazier missed the presence of this man. 

I feel sorry for putting more strain on Mr. Frazier by raising the possibility that Lee Oswald stood besides him just after the shooting. It is a strange twist of fate that Mr. Frazier was exposed to the burden of being Lee's associate (a driver and co-employee in the same establishment) back then, and he is now challenged again. On the other hand, Mr. Frazier is the only person who could shed some light on this issue, and it was necessary to ask the question, even if it was unlikely to learn more about the identity of that unknown person standing at the western wall just seconds after the last shot.

 

 

 

Edited by Andrej Stancak
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Andrej Stancak said:

I feel sorry for putting more strain on Mr. Frazier by raising the possibility that Lee Oswald stood besides him just after the shooting. It is a strange twist of fate that Mr. Frazier was exposed to the burden of being Lee's associate (a driver and co-employee in the same establishment) back then, and he is now challenged again. On the other hand, Mr. Frazier is the only person who could shed some light on this issue, and it was necessary to ask the question, even if it was unlikely to learn more about the identity of that unknown person standing at the western wall just seconds after the last sho

Andrej,

I know how much work you have put into this part of the assassination story.  I appreciate it even though I may disagree from time to time on certain points.  Your take on Frazier is the right one.  I simply take Frazier's position as one of deception that he must continue for his own reasons even until today.

Prayerman is Oswald (Harvey).  Or, at least one of them.  There were two at the TSBD that day.  Harvey on Elm Street (John Martin film) during the shooting, a few seconds later as Prayerman.  Lee supposedly in the Sniper's Nest.  

There is only one problem with this.  Who is the Doorway Man in Altgens 6.  It sure isn't Billie Lovelady.  I have a hard time thinking of a third Oswald as Doorway Man.  The photo altering of Doorway Man is poor due to rushing the photo to the public.  Doorway Man is someone who the assassination cover up artists didn't want known so they covered his face with a Lovelady mask.  He is an individual who would have blown the cover up.  So, who was he?  I don't know.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Please sign in to comment

You will be able to leave a comment after signing in



Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...