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De Mohrenschildt question of interest


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My answer is true and correct. It's not imagination. It's right inside George DM's own book.

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excuse me for butting in, because George DM wrote anything, that means it's true?

:) - you're not butting in. this is a Forum, by definition where anyone present is invited to speak. which clearly has both its good points and its bad.

and you're saying what's obvious to many, so...

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My answer is true and correct. It's not imagination. It's right inside George DM's own book.

---

excuse me for butting in, because George DM wrote anything, that means it's true?

Actually, David, you misunderstood my post.

I'm not saying that George DM never lied. That wasn't my point.

I was saying that I'm representing what George DM actually said -- and not my own imagination.

I can speak for George DM, I said, because I read his book very carefully, and I can tell you want George DM said.

That certainly doesn't prove that George DM never lied.

Yet I will say this about George DM's book, I'm a Patsy! I'm a Patsy! (1978), namely, that soon after he wrote this book he (officially) committed suicide.

So I can ask, what would be the point of lying in book when the writer planned to kill himself afterwards?

That said -- I found at least ONE LIE inside George DM's book -- but it was a generous lie. Here it is. We know from Volkmar Schmidt himself, that he was at that February 1963 Engineers' Party in Dallas when a group of yuppie Engineers gathered to watch Schmidt "process" LHO to "transfer" his hatred over the Bay of Pigs into hatred over General Walker.

Volkmar Schmidt admitted this to our own Bill Kelly -- and also to PBS Frontline decades ago. (Schmidt has since passed on.) Schmidt says his "process" was successful, but he denies that he was the one who told LHO to kill Walker.

OK, back to George DM. George DM says in his 1978 book that there was such a party -- but that the person who "processed" LHO at that party was JEWISH. Actually George says, "I'm pretty sure he was Jewish."

But Volkmar Schmidt -- clearly a dignified German gentleman and scholar -- never denied that it was him -- and was for decades one of George DM's best friends.

Even toward the end of his life, George DM remained close to Volkmar Schmidt as possible (although when George DM became suicidal near the end of his life, Volkmar Schmidt made a point to keep George DM away from own wife and kids).

So there you have the lie, David. Clearly, however, George DM was trying to keep his good friend, Volkmar Schmidt, from taking a lot of crap from a lot of journalists. That was George's motive for that lie.

So, there is at least one LIE in George DM's book. If I find another, I'll let you know.

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

Edited by Paul Trejo
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IF he committed suicide.......

Well, yes, Ray, that's correct. There are those who claim that George DM was murdered -- shortly before he was to testify again about the JFK assassination to the HSCA.

Yet if that's the case -- for the sake of argument -- then we are truly fortunate that George DM left us his "affidavit" in his 1978 book, "I'm a Patsy! I'm a Patsy!.

In a sense, this book stands in for George DM's missed HSCA testimony. What is its character? We should know.

Any thread about George DM should be open about his 1978 book, because in this book George DM added much more data to the testimony he gave in the Warren Commission about LHO.

We should note first and foremost, that George DM doubted to the WC and also doubted in his 1978 book, that LHO was the killer of JFK.

We should also note that George DM placed General Walker close to the center of the JFK saga.

For me, the confession that stands out in relief in his book, is George's admission that he and LHO used to call General Walker, "General Fokker."

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

Edited by Paul Trejo
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Maybe Volkmar was lying too. Your story about the processing of LHO is based on nothing but hearsay from at least one xxxx and maybe two, and presumes that LHO had no mind of his own. It's just too pat, and repeated here by you often just to buttress your theory. So we are supposed to believe George because he died right after penning his book? As you said, George was all about George.

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In fact I would add, notwithstanding what Bill Kelly thought, that I found Volkmar very self serving and not at all believable. What nerve - taking credit for LHO trying to kill Walker and apologizing for the end result, a dead president. Give me a break. It's nothing but a story.

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In fact I would add, notwithstanding what Bill Kelly thought, that I found Volkmar very self serving and not at all believable. What nerve - taking credit for LHO trying to kill Walker and apologizing for the end result, a dead president. Give me a break. It's nothing but a story.

Actually, Paul B., you're just guessing now, and using your imagination. We have ample evidence of that Dallas Engineer's party.

It just doesn't fit your 49-year old CIA-did-it scenario.

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

Edited by Paul Trejo
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So I can ask, what would be the point of lying in book when the writer planned to kill himself afterwards?

If he committed suicide.......

Thank you, Ray. I think it is one of the better bets that he did not commit suicide. Since I'm not a member of a jury, I have the luxury of giving as much credence to a piece of evidence as I wish, and to me the sound recording that occurred at the time is pretty damn convincing.

GdM did not commit suicide.

and as far as his desire to be completely honest previous to an alleged planned suicide, that assumption escapes me completely. I can think just off the top of my head of two famous (in the CI annals) cases where the suicider purposefully deceived others for particular reasons. If a person's not dead yet, he still has plenty of time to be a selfish bastard.

I'm not saying GdM was - I don't know. But to assume his bold honesty JUST because he's planning suicide possesses very little logic.

but it's irrelevant. GdM did not commit suicide (which almost gives me more reason to trust his veracity, actually).

Edited by Glenn Nall
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In fact I would add, notwithstanding what Bill Kelly thought, that I found Volkmar very self serving and not at all believable. What nerve - taking credit for LHO trying to kill Walker and apologizing for the end result, a dead president. Give me a break. It's nothing but a story.

Actually, Paul B., you're just guessing now, and using your imagination. We have ample evidence of that Dallas Engineer's party.

It just doesn't fit your 49-year old CIA-did-it scenario.

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

Dallas Engineers' Party - is that the Magnolia Labs party Schmidt threw for LHO and Michael Paine "to meet?"

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Dallas Engineers' Party - is that the Magnolia Labs party Schmidt threw for LHO and Michael Paine "to meet?"

It can't be, Glenn, according to Michael Paine himself, who claims that he met LHO only once before October 1963, and that was on April 2nd 1963, when he and Ruth invited the Oswalds over for dinner.

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

Edited by Paul Trejo
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Dallas Engineers' Party - is that the Magnolia Labs party Schmidt threw for LHO and Michael Paine "to meet?"

It can't be, Glenn, according to Michael Paine himself, who claims that he met LHO only once before October 1963, and that was on April 2nd 1963, when he and Ruth invited the Oswalds over for dinner.

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

and it's well established that Michael Paine would never lie.

so, egads, what to do with the February Magnolia Labs party where the three were to have first met (which is also doubtful)???

CIA or FBI have documentation showing that Ruth had done a little legwork on LHO i think a couple of years before they've claimed to have met.

why would she have done that?

OH! I KNOW!!! You can ask her this when you're Good and Ready to interview her!!! that could actually be one of your questions, to which she might every well have a quite suitable reply...

Don't thank me - pretend you thought of it yourself.

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...and it's well established that Michael Paine would never lie.

so, egads, what to do with the February Magnolia Labs party where the three were to have first met (which is also doubtful)???

CIA or FBI have documentation showing that Ruth had done a little legwork on LHO i think a couple of years before they've claimed to have met.

why would she have done that?

OH! I KNOW!!! You can ask her this when you're Good and Ready to interview her!!! that could actually be one of your questions, to which she might every well have a quite suitable reply...

Don't thank me - pretend you thought of it yourself.

Well, get your facts straight, Glenn. Where did you hear that Michael Paine was at the February Magnolia Party. I want to know.

George and Jeanne DM brought the Oswalds. Ruth Paine came alone. Where did you hear that Michael was there? Please tell me.

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

Edited by Paul Trejo
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yes, you're right. i've made yet another (damnit, that's three this year!) mistake. it was Ruth who met LHO at the party for the second time, allegedly. Perhaps it was at this little dig that Schmidt decided Michael had to meet Lee. I confess to an imperfect memory. I hope you never have to suffer from this affliction. It's cumbersome.

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yes, you're right. i've made yet another (damnit, that's three this year!) mistake. it was Ruth who met LHO at the party for the second time, allegedly. Perhaps it was at this little dig that Schmidt decided Michael had to meet Lee. I confess to an imperfect memory. I hope you never have to suffer from this affliction. It's cumbersome.

OK, thanks, Glenn, for clearing that up.

As for Ruth Paine, this was the first and only time she went to any Dallas Engineer's Party (according to her WC testimony).

According to Ruth, she never went to any other party at anybody else's house where the Oswald's were guests.

According to Ruth, she met George and Jeanne De Mohrenschildt at this one single party, for the first and the last time in her life. George, Jeanne and Ruth were all busy speaking with Marina, so that Ruth interacted very little with George and Jeanne. Besides, George, Jeanne and Marina spoke circles around Ruth in Russian, and it was all Ruth could do to keep up with a 'Da' or a 'Nyet' here and there.

LHO and Marina went to multiple Dallas Engineer Parties -- they were like a side-show in Dallas. Ruth Paine went to only one. Michael Paine (he claims) went to NONE where LHO was present. (I find that questionable, but that's another topic).

As for Ruth's knowledge of Michael's activities, we must remember that they were SEPARATED during most of 1963.

Ruth also says that she had no idea that Michael Paine ever lived with Volkmar Schmidt and Everett Glover at their apartment in Dallas, as some have claimed. This suggests that perhaps Michael Paine made moves that Ruth Paine knew nothing about. This also helps to explain Ruth Paine.

Regarding George DM, I think there's a presumption that Ruth Paine was part of the Russian Exile Community somehow. She denies any connection except this one "superficial" meeting with George and Jeanne DM at a party dedicated to meeting the Oswalds -- plus some Russian grammar lessons by the elder Mamantov.

Ruth had very little in common with the Russian Exiles in Dallas -- who tended to be fluent Russian speakers, and also to be wealthy. (It's the same with the Cubans -- it was mainly the wealthier citizens of these nations that fled from the Communist takeovers there.)

Marina Oswald was the big exception. The Russian Exiles in Dallas wanted to care for her, but LHO was insanely jealous on the topic. He threatened George Bouhe for bringing Marina something to wear besides the rags she brought from Russia.

George DM was not the leader of the Russian Exile Community in Dallas -- he was too "sullied" by his relationships with the Nazis during WW2. George Bouhe was the Dallas leader.

George DM was a smart aleck who liked to tease the Russian Exiles about the Nazi period. They were always ambivalent about him.

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

Edited by Paul Trejo
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...

My answer is true and correct. It's not imagination. It's right inside George DM's own book.

---

excuse me for butting in, because George DM wrote anything, that means it's true?

...

That certainly doesn't prove that George DM never lied.

Yet I will say this about George DM's book, I'm a Patsy! I'm a Patsy! (1978), namely, that soon after he wrote this book he (officially) committed suicide.

So I can ask, what would be the point of lying in book when the writer planned to kill himself afterwards?

...

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

well, lying in a book is infinitely easier to defend for example: "you simply misunderstand/stood what I'm saying -- I mis-remembered, etc..."

Now sitting down with an investigator answering probing and sometimes very pointed questions that may or may not lead to guilt, or, guilt by association is quite another thing. It's quite curious. Especially when the investigator is scheduled to sit down with you 24 hours after the alleged suicide... Mighty fishy... Fishy considering what George DeM knew of and about Oswald and Marina at the time. His (George's) own personal/work past and present associates. So yeah Paul, with everything we now know, murder, as opposed to suicide sounds reasonable.

Edited by David G. Healy
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