Sponsors are not - by Mr. Evica's definition - unknowable

[David Josephs]

My point is, who had the power not only to order the killing of JFK, but also to order the cover-up of the killing?

The answer is, someone who had power in 1963-64.

The answer is someone who has power in 2015. yes

The nameless, faceless, and stateless Sponsors.

Stateless, yes.

Nameless and faceless?

Never marry a Pet Theory...Who were the most powerful stateless entities in 1963?

Couldn't agree more Cliff....

This assumption that a Sponsor need be unknown and invisible is the offspring of Prouty's thinking as forwarded by Mr. Burnham, and obviously not by the creator of the Model quoted below.

Those representing the Sponsor/Facilitator/Mechanic Evica/Drago model of the assassination heirarchy claiming the Sponsor is by definition unknowable are adding a roadblock to understanding these levels and those who represent them. In classic misdirection - these supporters will claim that any Sponsor identified is automatically a False Sponsor and I could not disagree more. 158 out of 120,000,000 familes are responsible for the overwhelming lion share of the campaign contributions. http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2015/10/11/us/politics/2016-presidential-election-super-pac-donors.html?_r=0

"Just 158 families, along with companies they own or control, contributed $176 million in the first phase of the campaign, a New York Times investigation found".

The names in this list are not familiar at all - yet they are not invisibile. The Kock's support of Scott Walker and his anti-union / anti-collective bargaining stance has spread to these other wealthy families... and we are supposed to accept they are not the Sponsors of the world simply because they are visible? I sure would like to hear a defense of that conclusion.

While I appreciate the point of view it seems to me to work directly into the hands of the same Sponsors we are supposedly chasing. In essence, "if we illuminate the background, name or affiliations of said Sponsor - they are automatically no longer a Real Sponsor but automatically a False one leading us into more quicksand" - which again I feel is terrible destructivbe to our efforts.

LBJ used this technique in college with his secret club. If anyone was to ask if a member was a member, the question itself automatically dismissed the member from the club so they could answer truthfully - No. the member would then be reinstated at the next meeting.

Mr. E went out on a limb and identified the Sponsor level and a few members as example with David Rock at the top of the list. If we'd like to discuss the possibility that David Rock and friends were or were not a realistic option as the prime movers within this Sponsor level - great. I'm pretty sure we can make a strong case for Bundy as Sponsor-Rep moving in both the Sponsor and Facilitator realms. And I doubt anyone can convincingly argue that Harriman was not also a huge mover within the Sponsor level.

The Rock-Morgan-Mellon alliance is a direct decendent of the Rothschild dynasty and accounts for the ownership and control of virtually every country's national banking system on the planet. Add to this the Insurance and manufacturing strengths and we are led directly to the heart of the TEXTRON BUYS BELL HELICOPTER deal - which Prouty touches on very briedly in his JFK/Vietnam book. Sadly he does not pursue this lead as I did to find the names within the JFK Cabinet and advisors are directly tied to not only Textron but the banks and legal firms supporting and defending them. The BELL story is really quite amazing and revealing and anyone who wishes to see and understand the Sponsor level at work ought to read up on the subject.

To claim the Sponsors are invisible is to play into their hands and make the search hopeless. The Koch brothers are Sponsors of actions which shape and change our world every day - just ask the people of Minnesota. If we are not willing to make these statements and believe we can not only find the Sponsor but hold them accountable - what's the point?

I am by no means a scholar of Evica's work so I'd like to confine this discussion to what Mr. E wrote regarding the "Sponsor" or "initiator" level. I have found nothing to suggest that Mr. Evica felt the Sponsor was some unknowable entity. In fact the few sentences he writes about False Sponsors does not make that connection at all.

In reading this great work - Perfect Cover by Michael Evica, we do get a list of Sponsor-level entities and the people behind them.

That Albert Jenner is directly involved with the Sponsor level entities and is instrumental in crafting the WCR story speaks volumes to those trying to understand how the Sponsor runs the world.

http://www.kenrahn.com/JFK/The_critics/Evica/Perfect_cover.html

The initiating order was the U.S. Establishment, the Ruling Class, the Power Elite, the National Security State: the anti-JFK personae in Big Oil, banking, defense and their Intelligence and Military assets. Driven by both real and opportunistic anti-Communism, the Establishment aimed at reducing union strength, reducing production costs, and increasing the power of its “military-industrial complex” with its outposts in Southeast Asia, Latin America, and Western Europe.

Specifically, the initiating order was inside the complex of corporate and financial institutions of the Rockefeller-Morgan-Mellon alliance: the advisors, associates, and partners of David Rockefeller.

What the Rockefeller-Mellon-Morgan power elite perceived in JFK’s administration was a managed economy with wealth distribution driven by a strong president. The initiators, having decided that JFK had to be eliminated, sent their contract through D.C. power brokers (for example, Irving Davidson and Robert Maheu) to the facilitating order.

The facilitating order was made up of compromised U.S. intelligence figures, chiefly elements of the Central Intelligence Agency and the Federal Bureau of Narcotics, compromised by coups, assassinations, and complicity in the international trade in drugs and guns. The compromised intelligence persons were assisted by their Cosa Nostra partners.

The facilitating order organized the failure of the anti-Castro plots and kept its machinery in position, set up the False Sponsors through intelligence assets acting as conduits, and passed the murder contract through Organized Crime mediators to Texas and Dallas personae. The initiating order had a network of financial ties to the Southwest and specifically to Texas, and so the facilitating order included crucial elements of the so-called “Southern Rim.”

The “shooters”? The executing order at Dealey Plaza was made up of Dallas police, Dallas plainclothes officers, and Dallas area Treasury agents (Secret Service and ATF)—or hired Southwest assassins with local and federal law enforcement credentials impersonating those law persons—or both. The intelligence facilitating mediators were in close contact with the Dealey Plaza assassins.

False Sponsorship:

The False Sponsors of the assassination constitute a checklist of the usual suspects in the JFK assassination, either alone or in various combinations. What has frustrated productive analysis of these suspects and blocked the discovery of the framing of the False Sponsors has been the collapsing of the three orders of assassination: originating, energizing, and executing, first deliberately by the assassination planners; and second, inadvertently, by JFK researchers and writers. The primary initiators were not the primary facilitators, and the primary facilitators were not the primary operators.

Researchers who have uncritically accepted False Sponsorship disinformation or who have developed their own theory of the assassination similar to the False Sponsorship fiction have sometimes extended their choice of sponsor to control of the post-assassination autopsy, or the subsequent (and on-going) cover-up, or both: see, for example, John Davis’ Organized Crime/Carlos Marcello hypothesis (with Marcello neutralizing J. Edgar Hoover and the FBI). The autopsy cover-up and the post-autopsy cover-up, however, were engineered by the U.S. military and the Federal government respectively.

The False Sponsor program implicated a series of anti-JFK groups and organizations as the planners, organizers, and executors of the murder of JFK. Since each False Sponsor was already equipped with admitted anti-Kennedy political motives, what was developed further was the False Sponsor’s means or opportunity or both to murder JFK.

He then goes on to name 15 FALSE SPONSOR Entities. Not one touches upon this ultra elite 1% of the 1% but only suggests them via the Facilitator level - where most researchers incorrectly place the Sponsorship of this crime

From some other research I came across:

Bell Helicopter was a member of the Aircraft Manufacturers Association, like Lockheed, Martin-Marietta and the General Dynamics Corporation. This Association was represented by Albert Jenner when it was a defendant in a Federal antitrust lawsuit. Albert Jenner went over Ruth Paine's account of OSWALD with her on the morning that she testified. [WC Paine Testimony p455]

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=21719&page=15#entry300186 expands on the Textron/Bell purchase and the rest of this thread's topics

It seems to me then. that the "initiators" as Mr. E calls them - the Sponsors - are just as knowable and identifiable as the other members of the heirarchy. Will there be Invisible Sponsors that we simply can never know due to how they insulate themselves? Of course. Yet to state that a Sponsor cannot be known and all those who are named are by definition False, does a terrible disservice to those unraveling this mess document by document, involved entity by entity.

I've had this discussion elsewhere on the internet and was summarily shut down for going against the grain and trying to forward what Michael Evica wrote. Did Mr. E change his mind about these declarations? As I have not read all his work I could not tell you... maybe those who have and are intimate with the writings and POV can step up and let us know if this 1995 conclusion ever changed.

There are a great number of wonderful minds here -

Does the community truly feel that a visible, name Sponsor is by definition False? and that we can never know who the Sponsors are... I for one think Mr. E was dead on with this work which opens the door to understanding the Textron/Bell business and the entities swirling around that transaction.

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=11439 - thread on "A Certain Arrogance" which also delves deep into the who's who of the assassination.

[Greg Burnham]

David,

Thank you for not corrupting the integrity of the original thread from which you took your initial quote for this thread. Although I disagree with your conclusions, I do appreciate the etiquette.

[David Josephs]

No worries Greg.. always a pleasure. The desire here is to have you weigh in on the matter with input from a larger audience; since you are such a learned student of the Prouty POV.

Are you willing to take a few minutes to explain why the Prouty POV of invisible-unknowable Sponsor differs so greatly from what Mr. Evica writes and from the observations of so many of us when we focus on these entities?

Roswell Gilpatrick was Asst Sec of Defense under McNamara as well as a partner in the law firm Cravath, Swaine and Moore who represented TEXTRON and Royal Little among many. Thru the CIA, TEXTRON was given the go ahead to buy a company $100M in the red with a realistic expectation to return a 25% profit immediately. After the purchase and the CIA's movement of helicopters to Laos, BELL was tapped to manufacture reaplcements as well as the tons of supporting parts to keep these terrible birds in the air. Prouty writes how terrible an idea it was to use helicopters in this fight. Sun Life of Montreal (now where have we seen Montreal connected to all of this - Permendex maybe?) backed by Sun Life of London along with a few other Insurance companies enable TEXTRON to buy BELL with a 7 year repayment grace period. Good to have friends at Hancock or Prudential as well as the First Bank of Boston.

This is the essence of the Military Industrial Complex and the revolving door of Congress-Military-Industry(Banking).

Are you ready to say that the controlling interests in this purchase and the growth of Textron into US defense in the years prior and after are NOT the working of a Sponsor level in a position to influence decisions as large as what the DoD spends its money on while owning the asets on both sides of the coin?

SPONSORS -- Those with the authority and motive to sanction the assassination and the connections to engage facilitating agents and systems.

I think we agree that Dulles was not the controlling force behind this but a high level facilitator....

Who, if not this named group with named ownership, was in a position to engage him and his agents and his systems?

Who had the most to gain by JFK's death ? and then we need to ask ourselves who indeed gained the most.

DJ

[Greg Burnham]

No, David, I am not willing to discuss it further here. It seems that too often we get into pissing matches about that subject rather than discussions.

If you truly consider me "such a learned student of the Prouty POV" as you stated above, then I would think that disputing what I report would be an inappropriate approach to broadening your own understanding of Prouty's POV.

Alas, both you and Cliff have demonstrated on my forum that you very firmly disagree with my beliefs, those of Fletch, or both in this regard. Fine, that is your prerogative. However, I don't think there is anything to gain by rehashing it here.

Suffice it to say that even the False Sponsors should never be viewed as extraneous or non-essential personnel. They, too, are vitally important and often are enormously powerful. They can control almost everything it would seem...except the concealment of their own identity.

Edited December 11, 2015 by Greg Burnham

[Cliff Varnell]

No, David, I am not willing to discuss it further here. It seems that too often we get into pissing matches about that subject rather than discussions.

If you truly consider me "such a learned student of the Prouty POV" as you stated above, then I would think that disputing what I report would be an inappropriate approach to broadening your own understanding of Prouty's POV.

Alas, both you and Cliff have demonstrated on my forum that you very firmly disagree with my beliefs, those of Fletch, or both in this regard. Fine, that is your prerogative. However, I don't think there is anything to gain by rehashing it here.

Suffice it to say that even the False Sponsors should never be viewed as extraneous or non-essential personnel. They, too, are vitally important and often are enormously powerful. They can control almost everything it would seem...except the concealment of their own identity.

Greg Burnahm belongs to a class of researchers for whom defending their views is beneath them.

Greg, you continue to present a fictional account of my time at your Forum.

I was never accused of hijacking a thread; I didn't discuss much the flaws in Evica/Drago Model approach to the case.

I will now:

George Michael Evica

"A Perfect Cover"

http://www.kenrahn.com/JFK/The_critics/Evica/Perfect_cover.html

The money shot:

<quote on, emphasis added>

The Lansky Connection:

Meyer Lansky initiated, developed, and supported Organized Crime’s drug operations from their inception and beyond the death of JFK. Lansky was in continuous contact with U.S. intelligence agencies, primarily because of a shared anti-Communist orientation, including Naval Intelligence, the CIA, the FBI, and the Federal Bureau of Narcotics. Lansky and U.S. intelligence initially conspired to assassinate Fidel Castro, and both Lansky’s associates and U.S. intelligence profited from the world-wide drug trade. When the anti-Castro hits were called off, this shared interest in preserving heroin profits led, on the facilitators’ level, to the death of John F. Kennedy.

The Catalyst of the Crime:

The Sicilian drug traffic was run through Meyer Lansky’s Cuban casinos through 1959. Castro closed down the Mob’s Cuban operations, and JFK refused to sanction an invasion of Cuba after the Bay of Pigs to topple Castro, which, had it been successful, would have restored the Mob’s casinos and drug business. Further, from JFK’s inauguration in 1961 through November 22^nd, 1963, the Kennedy administration dramatically developed a major transformation in U.S. anti-narcotics policy: the Kennedy administration moved to radically reform U.S. anti-narcotics programs and policies. Through two major Congressional investigative hearings, three major reports to the president, a major Washington conference, and a blue-ribbon presidential commission—all of them organized and directed by Attorney General Robert Kennedy and President John F. Kennedy—the Kennedy administration supported a revolutionary approach to drug addiction and U.S. drug laws. If successful, the JFK program would have put the heroin cartel out of business. For the Mafia, the Lansky Group, Hoffa and his corrupt Teamsters locals, the CIA, the anti-Castro Cubans and the Federal Bureau of Narcotics, the permanent loss of huge narcotics profits therefore constituted a major motive for assassinating the president.

Had the Kennedy drug program been fully implemented, the international drug trade—financing scores of black operations around the world and directed by the U.S. power structure—would have collapsed. John F. Kennedy was assassinated before his anti-narcotics program could be put into operation. JFK was murdered by the National Security State and their intelligence, criminal, and Dallas area assets on November 22, 1963.

<quote off>

This is excellent. Leads to all kinds of named people, with faces.

But this line gets it all wrong:

"When the anti-Castro hits were called off, this shared interest in preserving heroin profits led, on the facilitators’ level, to the death of John F. Kennedy."

This is where the Evica/Drago Model is a drag on Evica's analysis.

First of all, it isn't a motivation in drug gangs to "preserve profits," it is the never-ending quest to expand profits which motivates the gang from the top to the bottom.

The top perps in the Kennedy assassination didn't want to maximize black money drug profits, and perhaps inflict a holocaust by another means in the black communities in America in the 1950's and 1980's?

The murder of John F. Kennedy should be approached like any other homicide.

When looking for top perps it might be kept in mind that David Rockefeller, McGeorge Bundy, and George H. W. Bush were all young.

Who were their elders?

Here's a snapshot of the Military-Industrial-Complex star chamber '59...

On September 15, 1959, Soviet Premier Nikita Khrushchev landed in Washington DC on the first stop of a two week tour

of the States.

The next day he showed up at W. Averell Harriman's pad in Manhattan.

From Spanning the Century The Life of W. Averell Harriman, by Rudy Abramson, pg. 575

<quote on>

In his second-floor drawing room, Harriman gathered leaders from mining, manufacturing, oil, chemicals, banking,

and insurance industries, including John D. Rockefeller III; General David Sarnoff, chairman of RCA; Frank Pace,

chairman of General Dynamics Corporation; W. Alton Jones, chairman of Cities Service Corporation; and John J. McCloy,

chairman of Chase Manhattan Bank. By his estimate, scribbled on a yellow legal pad before Khrushchev arrived, they

represented assets of some $38 billion. Among them, as witnesses to history, were a few men of ordinary means,

former ambassadors, educators, and, notably, Rockefeller Foundation president Dean Rusk, and Harvard economist

John Kenneth Galbraith, the latter having invited himself as a "representative of the proletariat."

Surround by Picassos and Derains, their voices muffled by Persian carpets, the capitalist Titans greeted the Communist

chieftain one by one, then sat in a semi-circle savoring caviar and sipping champagne and New York wine as Averell

conducted his exposition of capitalism, war profits, and American politics. No one present, nor any of their friends,

he and the others assured the guest of honor, favored world tensions. The assembled war profiteers, said the host, were

men who'd champion disarmament the moment it became safe for the United States. There was not a hint, however, that

mingling with the millionaires did anything except reinforce Khrushchev's belief that he was then in the presence of the

men who controlled America far more than Eisenhower and the members of Congress he had met in Washington.

One testimonial to free enterprise followed another. And when the Soviet leader reasserted his stubborn belief that the

men present composed the country's ruling circle, Galbraith later tattled, "Somebody demurred, but in perfunctory fashion.

After it was over, Harriman insisted that the Soviet leader had gained insights of "real importance."

<quote off>

John D. Rockefeller the 3rd and a couple of his top tools - John McCloy and Dean Rusk -- kick'n it with Nikita K at Harriman's pad.

The inter-locking Rockefeller/Harriman dynasties were truly stateless.

Edited December 11, 2015 by Cliff Varnell

[David Josephs]

That's really too bad Greg.

Here, outside the confines of your Forum where more eyes and minds can add to the discussion, your presentation of Prouty's POV related to Sponsors can be held up to real scrutiny by those with many more years thinking more deeply about this than I.

Those who feel discussions degrade into something unintended tend to feel even more strongly when their POV or conclusions are called into question with solid evidence and argument.

Yes, we disagree with you and the post at the top of this thread lays out the reasons why in a straight forward and amicable manner.

Evica names Sponsors.

Prouty, and by proxy - you feel that once named they are and always have been False. That Real Sponsors are impossible to know.

I'm sorry you're not going forward with a presentation of the impossible to know Sponsor and Why that is so...

I'm sure many here would benefit from the different interpretation of what was inteded by the creator of the model.

Specifically, the initiating order was inside the complex of corporate and financial institutions of the Rockefeller-Morgan-Mellon alliance: the advisors, associates, and partners of David Rockefeller.

What part of this leads you to believe that the names mentioned here are all False Sponsors.

Are we to understand that Prouty believed there were those who superceded these three families and their global alliances and remain so thoroughly veiled by their position that no one is aware of who they are? Surely the R-M-M alliances which stem from and operate thru the Rothschild empire were not beholden to yet an even higher level of elite cabal member?

Who gave the orders which David Rockefeller was required to follow - you know, just to put things into perspective.

As you may know or not, I've made this subject and the identification of the Bankers, Lawyers and others who make up the Sponsor level a pet project of mine. In my writing of this history of Spying in the US we find that only the most wealthy families were able to offer up resources for the craft. US spies were international yet had to pay their own ways since until the FBI's SIS there was no unified spying effort from the US. These elite families bred the original spies who in turn amassed proprietaryknowledge.

The sharing of such knowledge with the governments (or not) which employed them makes for a very interesting situation of who knew what, when. And what was this info able to allow these richest of worldwide families to accomplish?

"Knowledge is power" cannot be illustrated any better.

Below is a list of the world's wealthiest and most influence familes past and present - all False Sponsors of the trials and tribulations of the common man? Not one guilty Real Sponsor in the batch?

I respectfully beg to differ with that conclusion and feel that McGeorge Bundy was Sponsor class level while performing as a lead Facilitator. Same goes for 5 of the 6 Wise Men which includes Harriman and McCloy (also a Cravath, Saine and Moore partner btw). George Kennan was not at all involved at that level yet remains one of the few who pegged the Soviets for what they are and was listened to by this elite level - FDR especially (whose family and connections are on par with the R-M-M trifecta Evica mentions).

It's all good Greg... I'm sure we can get along with differing points of view here. I hope there comes a time when you feel it worthwhile to engage in this discussion. Until then books like None Dare Call It Conspiracy illustrate the workings of the Sponsor class and partly how they came to control this country. You're right, no one knows who Colonel House was. Doesn't mean he was invisible or unknowable...or was not a Direct Facilitator for the Real Sponsors of the world at that time.

DJ

[Cliff Varnell]

Specifically, the initiating order was inside the complex of corporate and financial institutions of the Rockefeller-Morgan-Mellon alliance: the advisors, associates, and partners of David Rockefeller.

Who gave the orders which David Rockefeller was required to follow - you know, just to put things into perspective.

David R was a snot nosed kid.

His brother Johnny D3 with his focus on Asia seems like a more likely top perp.

Keep it up David, this is great!

[Greg Burnham]

I wish you both the best of luck in your pursuit of the Sponsors. It is a different path than my own.

[Cliff Varnell]

I wish you both the best of luck in your pursuit of the Sponsors. It is a different path than my own.

The best we can do is study Persons of Interest and gather as accurate a history as possible.

The model I find most useful is the blank tackboard of a standard law enforcement investigation.

McGeorge Bundy has been quoted by a journalist as claiming to have called AF1 the aftenoon of 11/22/63 to inform LBJ there was no evidence of a conspiracy, the lone assassin was in custody.

This is very suspicious, this rush to judgement.

McGeorge Bundy's photo is tacked to the board.

It is alleged that Averell Harriman met with LBJ only a few minutes after the new pres arrived at the White House to tell him that all the

top US government Kremlinologists were unanimous in their conclusion the Soviets had nothing to do with JFK's murder.

But there was no meeting of top US gov't Kremlinologists on 11/22/63.

Harriman made that up -- very suspicious. Put Harriman's mug on the tackboard.

What does the physical evidence in the case show us?

JFK was shot in the back at T3; the round didn't exit; there was no round recovered from that location during the autopsy.

He was shot in the throat from the front; the round didn't exit; there was no round recovered from that location during the autopsy.

According to the record of the autopsy there was a specific scenario the doctors entertained which would account for these facts -- JFK was

struck with high tech weaponry which wouldn't be found on x-ray or in the body at autopsy.

This scenario leads to MK/NAOMI, a high tech death squad funded out of the US Army Special Operations Division but was actually CIA.

MK/NAOMI goes on the tack board.

There is nothing theoretical here.

This investigation tack board is based on the historical record and renders the Evica-Drago Model passe.

Edited December 11, 2015 by Cliff Varnell

[James DiEugenio]

DJ: Who gave the orders which David Rockefeller was required to follow - you know, just to put things into perspective.

Is this supposed to be satirical?

​I will never forget an article from the decade of the seventies, I think it was in Penthouse?, about a writer who infiltrated into a Bilderberger meeting. The secretary of the meeting--that is the guy who set up the invitee list, the accommodations, the speaking schedule--was McGeorge Bundy. Through some subterfuge, this guy got invited. He said David Rockefeller did not arrive until the third day, of course, on his private jet.

​He said his arrival was almost comical. Here you had all of those multimillionaires, and Wall Street guys and political leaders. They were carrying on for a couple of days with not a care in the world. But when word got out that Rockefeller was arriving, the whole tone changed. They knew he did not like smoke filled rooms and was a tee totaler. So, like magic, all the smokers disappeared, and presto, most of the liquor did too.

​David Rockefeller was required to follow no one. And Kennedy knew it. Let us never forget what JFK told Mort Sahl. Mort had been kidding Kennedy about how his father helped him so much in getting elected since he was rich. So once, on a plane--maybe AF1--Kennedy asked Mort, "OK, how much do you think my Dad is worth Mort?"

​Sahl replied, "Not really sure. Maybe 300 million?"

JFK: "Alright. Now, how much do you think the Rockefellers are worth?"

Sahl: "Oh, I have no idea on that one."

JFK: "Try four billion. (JFK paused to make a dramatic silence. He then pointed at the comedian.) Now, that's money Mort!"

Edited December 12, 2015 by James DiEugenio

[Thomas Graves]

DJ: Who gave the orders which David Rockefeller was required to follow - you know, just to put things into perspective.

Is this supposed to be satirical?

​I will never forget an article from the decade of the seventies, I think it was in Penthouse?, about a writer who infiltrated into a Bilderberger meeting. The secretary of the meeting--that is the guy who set up the invitee list, the accommodations, the speaking schedule--was McGeorge Bundy. Through some subterfuge, this guy got invited. He said David Rockefeller did not arrive until the third day, of course, on his private jet.

​He said his arrival was almost comical. Here you had all of those multimillionaires, and Wall Street guys and political leaders. They were carrying on for a couple of days with not a care in the world. But when word got out that Rockefeller was arriving, the whole tone changed. They knew he did not like smoke filled rooms and was a tee totaler. So, like magic, all the smokers disappeared, and presto, most of the liquor did too.

​David Rockefeller was required to follow no one. And Kennedy knew it. Let us never forget what JFK told Mort Sahl. Mort had been kidding Kennedy about how his father helped him so much in getting elected since he was rich. So once, on a plane--maybe AF1--Kennedy asked Mort, "OK, how much do you think my Dad is worth Mort?"

​Sahl replied, "Not really sure. Maybe 300 million?"

JFK: "Alright. Now, how much do you think the Rockefellers are worth?"

Sahl: "Oh, I have no idea on that one."

JFK: "Try four billion. (JFK paused to make a dramatic silence. He then pointed at the comedian.) Now, that's money Mort!"

Sounds like Al Davis arriving at a Raider's training camp back in the day.

--Tommy

[James DiEugenio]

Jon:

In your comment about David Rockefeller on my Garrison Tapes thread you said some Cabinet secretaries dismissed him as Mr. R?

I don't understand what that means.

[Jon G. Tidd]

Jim Di,

My bad. I meant they addressed him as Mr. R. A clear sign he occupied a an elevated position commanding respect and deference.

[Glenn Nall]

I will veer right for a moment and offer my genuine apology to Anyone who read and was offended by my innapropriate analogy of marriage to Pet Theories and the brutes involved, and marriage in general, involving same said brutes, one which involved a four letter (well, one letter and three asterisk) word.

I chose a literary device which i thought might conjure some emphasis without considering the political correctness which is so clearly necessary in 21st century communication.

In entire sincerity, I am sorry for any offense that Ive caused. I hope that the few who - oh never mind...

Ive come to appreciate almost everyone in this forum and have learned a great deal about a great deal because of you guys.

Im also sorry to see the Pass that the backbiting, slander and insult within EF continues to get (the Reason i joined EF was because of the rumor that IT was being addressed - 2 years ago), while my admittedly innapropriate comment awakens giants with axes.

In any case, seriously, I didnt mean to offend anyone. Im an idiot, and i really thought thats what the asterisks were for.

OH. COOL POEM:

Pretty Mary donned her skates,

Upon the Ice to Frisk.

Wasn't she a silly girl,

Her little *.

[Cliff Varnell]

Jim Di,

My bad. I meant they addressed him as Mr. R. A clear sign he occupied a an elevated position commanding respect and deference.

His brother Nelson advocated nuking Hanoi.

Think the Rockefeller family didn't have a hard-on for South East Asia?

(Note to Glenn: that's how ya break salty, pal.)