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The entrance hole matches the autopsy photo and shirt bullet hole very well, I am afraid to report.

But the hole in the shirt does not match up with the "wound" depicted in the autopsy photo.

There is a 2+ inch discrepancy.

The clothing evidence, for which there is a chain of possession, trumps the autopsy photo -- for which there is no chain of possession.

Admittedly, it's been awhile since I saw the NOVA documentary, but do I correctly recall that they explained the disparity between the wounds location and the clothing, by how JFK's arm was raised, resting on the ledge of the window?

Is that explanation somehow insufficient, and if so, on what grounds?

No, you missed it. Some SBT defenders--taking their cue from Specter and Humes--have made the claim the clothing was lifted when JFK's arm was raised, but the NOVA program side-stepped the issue by claiming the SBT is all about what happens after the bullet leaves Kennedy's throat. This was a convenient lie.

This site (just Googled it) seems to show several photos of JFK in the limousine, with his arm on the side of the door, and a clearly definitive bunching of his coat at the base of his neck. Just using the non-scientific eye-balling, it seems to be about 2" of bunched fabric, if not more.

Am I missing something as to the validity of these photos, or otherwise?

Link: http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/bunched3.htm

Yes, you are missing the fact that JFK's shirt collar is visible in all the Elm St photos.

The only way we could see his shirt collar in the back is because the jacket collar rested in a normal position at the upper margin of the base of the neck.

How could multiple inches of shirt and jacket fabric bunch up above the base of the neck without pushing up on the jacket collar at the base of the neck?

David Von Pein acknowledges that this fact -- the visible shirt collar in the Elm St. photos -- means the jacket was only bunched up "a little bit."croft.jpg

This picture clearly shows an easily visible bunching of fabric at the base of the neck, as does the drawing which someone else linked in the last few posts.

As to the visible collar, the collar of a suit jacket is often pulled straight and lies flag with the tension of the lapel, and especially if buttoned. So, it's entirely possible (highly likely, IMO) that the collar of his jacket stayed put, and the back section of the jacket is what bunched. Simply, a visible collar is no evidence that any bunching occurred, and in fact, just the opposite is more often true than not. And just as your picture shows.

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The entrance hole matches the autopsy photo and shirt bullet hole very well, I am afraid to report.

But the hole in the shirt does not match up with the "wound" depicted in the autopsy photo.

There is a 2+ inch discrepancy.

The clothing evidence, for which there is a chain of possession, trumps the autopsy photo -- for which there is no chain of possession.

Admittedly, it's been awhile since I saw the NOVA documentary, but do I correctly recall that they explained the disparity between the wounds location and the clothing, by how JFK's arm was raised, resting on the ledge of the window?

Is that explanation somehow insufficient, and if so, on what grounds?

No, you missed it. Some SBT defenders--taking their cue from Specter and Humes--have made the claim the clothing was lifted when JFK's arm was raised, but the NOVA program side-stepped the issue by claiming the SBT is all about what happens after the bullet leaves Kennedy's throat. This was a convenient lie.

This site (just Googled it) seems to show several photos of JFK in the limousine, with his arm on the side of the door, and a clearly definitive bunching of his coat at the base of his neck. Just using the non-scientific eye-balling, it seems to be about 2" of bunched fabric, if not more.

Am I missing something as to the validity of these photos, or otherwise?

Link: http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/bunched3.htm

Yes, you are missing the fact that JFK's shirt collar is visible in all the Elm St photos.

The only way we could see his shirt collar in the back is because the jacket collar rested in a normal position at the upper margin of the base of the neck.

How could multiple inches of shirt and jacket fabric bunch up above the base of the neck without pushing up on the jacket collar at the base of the neck?

David Von Pein acknowledges that this fact -- the visible shirt collar in the Elm St. photos -- means the jacket was only bunched up "a little bit."croft.jpg

This picture clearly shows an easily visible bunching of fabric at the base of the neck, as does the drawing which someone else linked in the last few posts.

As to the visible collar, the collar of a suit jacket is often pulled straight and lies flag with the tension of the lapel, and especially if buttoned. So, it's entirely possible (highly likely, IMO) that the collar of his jacket stayed put, and the back section of the jacket is what bunched.

So the jacket collar at the base of his neck didn't budge but almost three inches of his shirt and almost three inches of his jacket were bunched up entirely above the base of the neck?

This is clearly idiotic.

Simply, a visible collar is no evidence that any bunching occurred, and in fact, just the opposite is more often true than not. And just as your picture shows.

The visible shirt collar indicates very little bunching occurred.

The burden of proof is on you.

Show us how you bunch almost six inches of fabric above the base of the neck without pushing up on the jacket collar at the base of the neck.

Prove it.

Demonstrate it.

Or STFU, please...

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JFK wore a lower back corset outside his shirt. This would restrict any movement upwards of the shirt, no matter how many times he raised his arm.

If the shirt couldn't move, and the position of the holes in the shirt and the jacket match, then the jacket didn't ride up either.

As the holes in the jacket and shirt match the position of the bullet hole in JFK's back, the SBT is proven unsustainable

Edited by Ray Mitcham
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