Your Best Big Fact of a Conspiracy

[James DiEugenio]

LOL

[Ron Ecker]

Gee, where'd Curtis go?

The last time he left was after someone here (I forget who, was it me?) brought up the Bethesda witnesses to the large wound in back of the head whose statements were suppressed by the lying HSCA. I was kind of surprised to see him pop up again, but maybe he thinks we have short memories.

[James Richards]

The single bullet theory itself is ludicrous enough, but during Dr. Robert Shaw's press conference immediately after operating on John Connally, he states very clearly that the bullet is still in his thigh and will be removed when his condition is stabilized.

I think the man would know what he was talking about so there goes the future SBT right there. The fact that it was proposed in the first place is proof the WC was dishonest and had an agenda in making Oswald guilty; and the only reason to have this agenda is to conceal a conspiracy.

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[Greg Parker]

The single bullet theory itself is ludicrous enough, but during Dr. Robert Shaw's press conference immediately after operating on John Connally, he states very clearly that the bullet is still in his thigh and will be removed when his condition is stabilized.

I think the man would know what he was talking about so there goes the future SBT right there. The fact that it was proposed in the first place is proof the WC was dishonest and had an agenda in making Oswald guilty; and the only reason to have this agenda is to conceal a conspiracy.

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[Sandy Larsen]

The single bullet theory itself is ludicrous enough, but during Dr. Robert Shaw's press conference immediately after operating on John Connally, he states very clearly that the bullet is still in his thigh and will be removed when his condition is stabilized.

I think the man would know what he was talking about so there goes the future SBT right there. The fact that it was proposed in the first place is proof the WC was dishonest and had an agenda in making Oswald guilty; and the only reason to have this agenda is to conceal a conspiracy.

Oh my gosh! This is another smoking gun. One I hadn't heard of till now.

I like simple smoking guns like this as they are very easy for anyone to grasp, and to do so right away.

But didn't Dr. Shaw have to later recant his statement?

Edited December 26, 2015 by Sandy Larsen

[Jon G. Tidd]

In his W.C. appearance, Shaw is not asked whether the bullet was embedded in Connally's thigh. Nor does Shaw say much about the thigh wound other than to say he didn't examine that wound closely.

[Sandy Larsen]

In his W.C. appearance, Shaw is not asked whether the bullet was embedded in Connally's thigh. Nor does Shaw say much about the thigh wound other than to say he didn't examine that wound closely.

Does anybody know what Dr. Shaw said about this later? Surely a CT researcher would have asked or wanted to ask him.

[James DiEugenio]

Either Specter was not aware of this film, or he just did not want to touch it.

Because in reading Shaw's testimony, he never even brings it up.

[Sandy Larsen]

But the early WC critics... were they unaware of the bullet remaining in Connally's thigh?

I'm puzzled by this. Because this seems like a big deal, but it's rarely mentioned compared to other facets of the case. Am I and Greg Parker the only ones who think this is a big deal? Doesn't this revelation spell doom for the SBT, and therefore the lone assassin theory?

[Ron Ecker]

Doesn't this revelation spell doom for the SBT, and therefore the lone assassin theory?

It does, though Shaw's own role in the story seems a bit odd to this layman.

According to Connally himself, a "metal object" fell onto the floor and a nurse picked it up. According to Texas state trooper Billy Nolan, the nurse gave him the bullet in an envelope and he took it to Will Fritz's office. This further implicates Fritz in the cover-up, as his office had the real bullet that Connally was shot with.

What I don't understand is, if the bullet in Connally's thigh so easily fell out, why didn't Shaw take it out to start with, instead of waiting? Can't unremoved bullets cause serious infection? According to all the Westerns I've seen, you get bullets out ASAP, you don't see them as no big deal. Is there a doctor in the house?

Edited December 26, 2015 by Ron Ecker

[Kirk Gallaway]

Later, and after the internet became a staple of our lives (sometime around 2000-01, maybe?), and it [the Warren Report] was readily available, I still felt a pang of honest hesitation in reading it. For reasons unknown at the time, but which become clearer with the dual benefit of both age and hindsight, I now know that I put it off for so long, simply because I was afraid of what I might find, and worse, that it would all make sense, and that my own intellectual honesty would force me to sacrifice even the last vestiges of any possibility of my conspiratorial beliefs." Curtis Berkley

Usually the more people read the WR, the more stunned they are at the WR conclusions. Perhaps you were just looking for set answers and were unable to ask any questions of your own.

"Not one scintilla of evidence" , I assume you're a big Jerry Ford fan.

I read this forum from time to time, and quite enjoy it. I am often amazed, awe-struck even, at the depth and breadth of knowledge assembled here, and the expert-level attention to the faintest or most minutest detail.

Awestruck, but not "one scintilla" persuaded by the depth and breadth assembled here? Were you just being kind, or just not entirely truthful about where you're coming from?

But, I often get lost in those weeds, and I fear that I (and perhaps others) often miss the larger picture. And it is that desire, to understand where it all begins for each of you, which prefaces my question.

Really?, it doesn't sound like you're "one scintilla" lost at all.

You've gotten a very energetic response to your one question. Your respondents are positively engaged and responding to one another whether you're participating or not. I'll assume you didn't just pose this question to suck everybody's energy and give none of your own, or at least that wasn't your initial intention. Ok, maybe it was short sighted of you to bring up this question during the xmas holiday, but now that we have more time and that's over. Where are you? Are you planning to bring anything to the table?

[James DiEugenio]

Very good question Ron:

What I don't understand is, if the bullet in Connally's thigh so easily fell out, why didn't Shaw take it out to start with, instead of waiting?

[Sandy Larsen]

[deleted]

Edited December 26, 2015 by Sandy Larsen

[Jon G. Tidd]

Ron,

In the 11-22-63 clip, Shaw says the wound to the thigh was of relatively minor significance, given the damage that had been done to thorax and the need to get Connally's blood pressure and other vitals stabilized.

In Shaw's W,C. testimony, it becomes clear that Shaw's medical practice was limited to thoracic surgery. He quite deliberately avoided dealing with JBC's wrist and thigh.

I find it easy to understand why Shaw himself didn't try to remove a bullet from JBC's thigh. That was out of his bailiwick.

[Sandy Larsen]

Doesn't this revelation spell doom for the SBT, and therefore the lone assassin theory?

It does, though Shaw's own role in the story seems a bit odd to this layman.

According to Connally himself, a "metal object" fell onto the floor and a nurse picked it up. According to Texas state trooper Billy Nolan, the nurse gave him the bullet in an envelope and he took it to Will Fritz's office. This further implicates Fritz in the cover-up, as his office had the real bullet that Connally was shot with.

What I don't understand is, if the bullet in Connally's thigh so easily fell out, why didn't Shaw take it out to start with, instead of waiting? Can't unremoved bullets cause serious infection? According to all the Westerns I've seen, you get bullets out ASAP, you don't see them as no big deal. Is there a doctor in the house?

Thanks for the information Ron. It gave me enough keywords that I was able to find the story.

The story, in a nutshell, is that TWO people found TWO distinct bullets (one bullet each) on Connally's gurney!

Bullet One: As Ron said, "According to Texas state trooper Billy Nolan, the nurse gave him the bullet in an envelope and he took it to Will Fritz's office." Connally said the bullet had fallen to the floor and the nurse picked it up. Nolan said that the nurse told him the bullet "came off of the gurney."

Bullet Two: Orderly, Darrell Tomlinson, found CE-399 on a gurney (It probably wasn't Connally's gurney, and a different bullet was probably switched in its place.)

It's really hard to believe that both bullets just happened to have been unexpectedly found on gurneys. I suspect that Billy Nolan may have heard the gurney story and only assumed later on that the bullet he had was the one from the gurney.

What I don't understand, Ron, is why the WC didn't use the bullet Nolan gave Fritz instead of CE-399. At least that one (likely) had some damage to it. Plus traces of Connally's blood and a simple chain of custody.

Oh wait... I know why. It's because that bullet hadn't been shot from the Carcano.

This isn't as good a smoking gun as I had imagined. It is for us, but for the uninitiated the story is too complicated.