One Last Thing Before Xmas Eve: 2nd Floor Lunch Room Encounter

[Greg Parker]

You or Bob only need to take a leaf out of Tommy's book and it give it a bump.

The defeat of the official version of events is spread out over several forums and 15 years worth of threads.

That debate is done. The next phase has begun. Showing how the official narrative was created via the Reid Interrogation Technique.

[Thomas Graves]

I'm still waiting for a discussion of Robert's post 139 and an explanation of why two guys hell bent on charging up those stairs (which means hard turns at each half stair level to get up the next)....would see Oswald standing over by the coke machine....especially with all the [sic] between them and the door. That has never seemed right to me unless something refocused them them away from the roof and into the break room...

especially since Baker was pretty clear about wanting to get up to the roof ASAP... And of course if Oswald had just gone through the door and it was still swinging shut its hard to see how he would be

standing well inside with a soda or even facing back to the door. Robert's post and the photo make the issue very clear, would be nice to get back to it.

Larry,

What if Oswald wasn't actually standing at the Coke machine, but inside the vestibule, looking through the vestibule's outer door window to see who was coming up the stairs?

--Tommy

Edited January 29, 2016 by Thomas Graves

[Greg Parker]

I'm still waiting for a discussion of Robert's post 139 and an explanation of why two guys hell bent on charging up those stairs (which means hard turns at each half stair level to get up the next)....would see

Oswald standing over by the coke machine....especially with all the [sic] between them and the door. That has never seemed right to me unless something refocused them them away from the roof and into the break room...

especially since Baker was pretty clear about wanting to get up to the roof ASAP... And of course if Oswald had just gone through the door and it was still swinging shut its hard to see how he would be

standing well inside with a soda or even facing back to the door. Robert's post and the photo make the issue very clear, would be nice to get back to it.

Larry,

What if Oswald wasn't actually standing at the Coke machine, but inside the vestibule, looking through the vestibule's outer door window to see who was coming up the stairs?

--Tommy

For crying out loud Tommy! Don't you get it by now? He was IN the coke machine. Spying. Oz mistook Craig for Baker later that day in Fritz' office. That's why he said "everyone will know who I am now". His (coke) cover was blown! That's why he had to be killed. He was now a liability to the Evil Geniuses at Pepper.

----------------

Vestibule: "a passage, hall, or room between the outer door and the interior of a building : lobby"

Because Oswald (correctly) used the term for the space at the first floor entrance, the builders of the false narrative had to apply it to an area on the 2nd floor so the whole thing could be moved one floor up. There was no 2nd floor vestibule. I know someone has suggested that maybe that is what everyone called it anyway for lack of a better description. Great. Give me a quote showing it's use in any pre-assassination situation or any post assassination situation not describing the 2nd floor encounter.

[Thomas Graves]

I'm still waiting for a discussion of Robert's post 139 and an explanation of why two guys hell bent on charging up those stairs (which means hard turns at each half stair level to get up the next)....would see Oswald standing over by the coke machine....especially with all the [sic] between them and the door. That has never seemed right to me unless something refocused them them away from the roof and into the break room...

especially since Baker was pretty clear about wanting to get up to the roof ASAP... And of course if Oswald had just gone through the door and it was still swinging shut its hard to see how he would be

standing well inside with a soda or even facing back to the door. Robert's post and the photo make the issue very clear, would be nice to get back to it.

Larry,

What if Oswald wasn't actually standing at the Coke machine, but inside the vestibule, looking through the vestibule's outer door window to see who was coming up the stairs?

--Tommy

For crying out loud Tommy! Don't you get it by now? He was IN the coke machine. Spying. Oz mistook Craig for Baker later that day in Fritz' office. That's why he said "everyone will know who I am now". His (coke) cover was blown! That's why he had to be killed. He was now a liability to the Evil Geniuses at Pepper.

----------------

Vestibule: "a passage, hall, or room between the outer door and the interior of a building : lobby"

Because Oswald (correctly) used the term for the space at the first floor entrance, the builders of the false narrative had to apply it to an area on the 2nd floor so the whole thing could be moved one floor up. There was no 2nd floor vestibule. I know someone has suggested that maybe that is what everyone called it anyway for lack of a better description. Great. Give me a quote showing it's use in any pre-assassination situation or any post assassination situation not describing the 2nd floor encounter.

Thanks, "Mr. Hancock."

OK, if the small "room" between the second floor lunchroom and the work space / second floor landing isn't a "vestibule," what should we call it? "A small room between the second floor lunch room and the work space / second floor landing"? "The lunchroom's anteroom"? "The lunch room's little annex"?

Whatever you want to call it, wouldn't it have been easier for Baker to see someone turning away from the window in that little area's outer door than someone standing by the Coke machine inside the lunchroom proper?

--Tommy

Edited January 29, 2016 by Thomas Graves

[Guest]

Starting at 54:00 the 2nd floor lunchroom encounter fugezi.

There are a few bits I would have done different, and they will be amended in V2

[Thomas Graves]

I'm still waiting for a discussion of Robert's post 139 and an explanation of why two guys hell bent on charging up those stairs (which means hard turns at each half stair level to get up the next)....would see Oswald standing over by the coke machine....especially with all the [sic] between them and the door. That has never seemed right to me unless something refocused them them away from the roof and into the break room...

especially since Baker was pretty clear about wanting to get up to the roof ASAP... And of course if Oswald had just gone through the door and it was still swinging shut its hard to see how he would be

standing well inside with a soda or even facing back to the door. Robert's post and the photo make the issue very clear, would be nice to get back to it.

Larry,

What if Oswald wasn't actually standing at the Coke machine, but inside the vestibule, looking through the vestibule's outer door window to see who was coming up the stairs?

--Tommy

For crying out loud Tommy! Don't you get it by now? He was IN the coke machine. Spying. Oz mistook Craig for Baker later that day in Fritz' office. That's why he said "everyone will know who I am now". His (coke) cover was blown! That's why he had to be killed. He was now a liability to the Evil Geniuses at Pepper.

----------------

Vestibule: "a passage, hall, or room between the outer door and the interior of a building : lobby"

Because Oswald (correctly) used the term for the space at the first floor entrance, the builders of the false narrative had to apply it to an area on the 2nd floor so the whole thing could be moved one floor up. There was no 2nd floor vestibule. I know someone has suggested that maybe that is what everyone called it anyway for lack of a better description. Great. Give me a quote showing it's use in any pre-assassination situation or any post assassination situation not describing the 2nd floor encounter.

Thanks, "Mr. Hancock."

OK, if the small "room" between the second floor lunchroom and the work space / second floor landing isn't a "vestibule," what should we call it? "A small room between the second floor lunch room and the work space / second floor landing"? "The lunchroom's anteroom"? "The lunch room's little annex"?

Whatever you want to call it, wouldn't it have been easier for Baker to see someone turning away from the window in that little area's outer door than someone standing by the Coke machine inside the lunchroom proper?

--Tommy

edited and bumped

Edited January 29, 2016 by Thomas Graves

[Greg Parker]

I'm still waiting for a discussion of Robert's post 139 and an explanation of why two guys hell bent on charging up those stairs (which means hard turns at each half stair level to get up the next)....would see Oswald standing over by the coke machine....especially with all the [sic] between them and the door. That has never seemed right to me unless something refocused them them away from the roof and into the break room...

especially since Baker was pretty clear about wanting to get up to the roof ASAP... And of course if Oswald had just gone through the door and it was still swinging shut its hard to see how he would be

standing well inside with a soda or even facing back to the door. Robert's post and the photo make the issue very clear, would be nice to get back to it.

Larry,

What if Oswald wasn't actually standing at the Coke machine, but inside the vestibule, looking through the vestibule's outer door window to see who was coming up the stairs?

--Tommy

For crying out loud Tommy! Don't you get it by now? He was IN the coke machine. Spying. Oz mistook Craig for Baker later that day in Fritz' office. That's why he said "everyone will know who I am now". His (coke) cover was blown! That's why he had to be killed. He was now a liability to the Evil Geniuses at Pepper.

----------------

Vestibule: "a passage, hall, or room between the outer door and the interior of a building : lobby"

Because Oswald (correctly) used the term for the space at the first floor entrance, the builders of the false narrative had to apply it to an area on the 2nd floor so the whole thing could be moved one floor up. There was no 2nd floor vestibule. I know someone has suggested that maybe that is what everyone called it anyway for lack of a better description. Great. Give me a quote showing it's use in any pre-assassination situation or any post assassination situation not describing the 2nd floor encounter.

Thanks, "Mr. Hancock."

OK, if the small "room" between the second floor lunchroom and the work space / second floor landing isn't a "vestibule," what should we call it? "A small room between the second floor lunch room and the work space / second floor landing"? "The lunchroom's anteroom"? "The lunch room's little annex"?

Whatever you want to call it, wouldn't it have been easier for Baker to see someone turning away from the window in that little area's outer door than someone standing by the Coke machine inside the lunchroom proper?

--Tommy

edited and bumped

I like to call it the "little rooms where miracles can happen, if you wish hard enough", Tommy. That's what I call it anyways. But I'm just an old sentimentalist, I guess.

Open the door and enter Truly-Land - a land where teleportation is possible. A land where you don't need those x-ray specs you clipped that comic book coupon to buy. Enter Truly-Land and you can see through anything -- but no one can see through you! You will marvel at the show inside the lunchroom! In the blink of eye, now you see him, now you don't! Yes! It's Will-O-the-Wisp Man and his amazing power to jump the time-space continuum and appear almost simultaneously seated at a table, buying a coke from the machine, walking away drinking the coke, drinking from the water cooler and dry firing his elephant gun! Is he a hologram? is he real? Come and see for your self! Ticket agent Is the Brewer Agency. Ticket sales through Postal Services and the concession stand courtesy of Butch's Hard Core Pop Corn! While you're there, take a walk down the expanding and shrinking stairs and see the Amazing Truth Contortionist! Contorting the truth was never this much fun! All this and so much more in Truly-Land -- the Land You Truly Must See!

Edited January 29, 2016 by Greg Parker

[Thomas Graves]

OK, if the small "room" between the second floor lunchroom and the work space / second floor landing isn't a "vestibule," what should we call it? "A small room between the second floor lunch room and the work space / second floor landing"? "The lunchroom's anteroom"? "The lunch room's little annex"?

Whatever you want to call it, wouldn't it have been easier for Baker to see someone turning away from the window in that little area's outer door than someone standing by the Coke machine inside the lunchroom proper?

--Tommy

edited and bumped

I like to call it the "little rooms where miracles can happen, if you wish hard enough", Tommy. That's what I call it anyways. But I'm just an old sentimentalist, I guess.

Open the door and enter Truly-Land - a land where teleportation is possible. A land where you don't need those x-ray specs you clipped that comic book coupon to buy. Enter Truly-Land and you can see through anything -- but no one can see through you! You will marvel at the show inside the lunchroom! In the blink of eye, now you see him, now you don't! Yes! It's Will-O-the-Wisp Man and his amazing power to jump the time-space continuum and appear almost simultaneously seated at a table, buying a coke from the machine, walking away drinking the coke, drinking from the water cooler and dry firing his elephant gun! Is he a hologram? is he real? Come and see for your self! Ticket agent Is the Brewer Agency. Ticket sales through Postal Services and the concession stand courtesy of Butch's Hard Core Pop Corn! While you're there, take a walk down the expanding and shrinking stairs and see the Amazing Truth Contortionist! Contorting the truth was never this much fun! All this and so much more in Truly-Land -- the Land You Truly Must See!. -- Parker, the Wit

Greg,

It's amazing how much effort you went to to avoid answering the question. And to try to be witty, and ... funny?

--Tommy

PS You seem to think that if Baker encountered Oswald on the second floor, Oswald must have shot, or shot at, the President.

Sorry you see it that way.

Edited January 29, 2016 by Thomas Graves

[Robert Prudhomme]

From the HSCA testimony of James Jarman:

[Ed LeDoux]

Bob,

The fact Lovelady would be able to see this interaction with Oswald, Truly and Baker leaves little doubt it was an entrance encounter,
A front vestibule interaction.

Did Lovelady witness the front stairway descent? That can be the only way he would know how a descending descender descended.
I have reservations about when Lovelady is claiming Lee descended, was this after Lee got his soda for his lunch.
The hearsay doesn't provide the answer.

We do know it was not Baker whom stopped Jarman at the front entrance.
Baker was at the front blocking the door upon entry.
This points us toward the truth.

Mr. DULLES. Is it your view he went out the front door rather than one of the back doors?
Mr. TRULY. Yes, sir; it is. From the nature. from the direction he was walking through the office, and the front stairway, to reach the second floor--it is my view that he walked down the front stairs and just out through the crowd there, probably a minute or two before the police had everything stopped.

How does he know this? Reid?

Mr. BELIN. Then how do you explain that when you got to the fifth floor, one of the elevators was not there?
Mr. TRULY. I don't know, sir. I think one of my boys was getting stock off the fifth floor on the back side, and probably moved the elevator at the time somewheres between the time we were running upstairs. And I would not have remembered that. I mean I wouldn't have really heard that, with the commotion we were making running up the enclosed stairwell.

Yet we should believe he heard voices from the lunchroom... hmmm truly remarkable.


Oh and Tommy its called a Hallway.
A corridor in a building that connects rooms
http://the-difference-between.com/vestibule/hallway

The purpose of the vestibule , at least in western Europe, was not to provide a resting-place for penitents, but to deaden the noise outside.
Drats someone should sue the TSBD architects! Dawn? Tidd?

[Thomas Graves]

[...]

Oh and Tommy its called a Hallway.

A corridor in a building that connects rooms

http://the-difference-between.com/vestibule/hallway

[...]

Ed,

That's wonderful.

I didn't realize that a little room that connected two larger rooms / areas in a building was a "hallway."

Fascinating stuff.

,

--Tommy

PS As an experiment, I googled the following three things simultaneously: "vestibule" "oswald" and "jfk". Then I clicked on "IMAGES," and look what I came up with (for example):

This --

and this --

and this --

and this --

[full stop]

But nothing whatsoever about the area just inside the TSBD front door.

Hmmm. Imagine that.

(Suggestion: Try it yourself. It's ... fun!)

Edited January 31, 2016 by Thomas Graves

[Ed LeDoux]

Yes the Google defense, quite popular among the kids nowadays.

I did a Google too, TSBD and Vestibule.
Amazin what one will find with a less restrictive search
Pictures like this,



And text like this,

Mr. BELIN. By the way, where did this policeman stop him when he was coming down the stairs at the Book Depository on the day of the shooting?
Mr. HOLMES. He said it was in the vestibule.
Mr. BELIN. He said he was in the vestibule?
Mr. HOLMES. Or approaching the door to the vestibule. He was just coming, apparently, and I have never been in there myself. Apparently there is two sets of doors, and he had come out to this front part.
Mr. BELIN. Did he state it was on what floor?
Mr. HOLMES. First floor. The front entrance to the first floor.
...
Mr. HOLMES. There was a commotion outside, which he later rushed downstairs to go out to see what was going on. He didn't say whether he took the stairs down. He didn't say whether he took the elevator down.
But he went downstairs, and as he went out the front, it seems as though he did have a coke with him, or he stopped at the coke machine, or somebody else was trying to get a coke, but there was a coke involved.
He mentioned something about a coke. But a police officer asked him who he was, and just as he started to identify himself, his superintendent came up and said, "He is one of our men." And the policeman said, "Well, you step aside for a little bit."
Then another man rushed in past him as he started out the door, in this vestibule part of it, and flashed some kind of credential and he said, "Where is your telephone, where is your telephone, and said I am so and so, where is your telephone."
And he said, "I didn't look at the credential. I don't know who he said he was, and I just pointed to the phone and said, 'there it is,' and went on out the door."

Keep Googling yourself Tommy, you'll know when you get it just right.

[Thomas Graves]

Yes the Google defense, quite popular among the kids nowadays.

I did a Google too, TSBD and Vestibule.

Amazin what one will find with a less restrictive search

Pictures like this,

And text like this,

Mr. BELIN. By the way, where did this policeman stop him when he was coming down the stairs at the Book Depository on the day of the shooting?

Mr. HOLMES. He said it was in the vestibule.

Mr. BELIN. He said he was in the vestibule?

Mr. HOLMES. Or approaching the door to the vestibule. He was just coming, apparently, and I have never been in there myself. Apparently there is two sets of doors, and he had come out to this front part.

Mr. BELIN. Did he state it was on what floor?

Mr. HOLMES. First floor. The front entrance to the first floor.

...

Mr. HOLMES. There was a commotion outside, which he later rushed downstairs to go out to see what was going on. He didn't say whether he took the stairs down. He didn't say whether he took the elevator down.

But he went downstairs, and as he went out the front, it seems as though he did have a coke with him, or he stopped at the coke machine, or somebody else was trying to get a coke, but there was a coke involved.

He mentioned something about a coke. But a police officer asked him who he was, and just as he started to identify himself, his superintendent came up and said, "He is one of our men." And the policeman said, "Well, you step aside for a little bit."

Then another man rushed in past him as he started out the door, in this vestibule part of it, and flashed some kind of credential and he said, "Where is your telephone, where is your telephone, and said I am so and so, where is your telephone."

And he said, "I didn't look at the credential. I don't know who he said he was, and I just pointed to the phone and said, 'there it is,' and went on out the door."

Keep Googling yourself Tommy, you'll know when you get it just right.

Great stuff, Ed!

So there were at least two vestibules in the TSBD. One right inside the front entrance, and another one, on the second floor, connected (by separate doors) to two architectural elements: 1 ) the second floor lunch room itself, and 2 ) the long hallway that led to the offices.

Or do you still want to call that little strangely-shaped, enclosed, three-door room "a hallway," too?

--Tommy

Edited January 31, 2016 by Thomas Graves

[Greg Parker]

More spin from ROKC's Lizard King. If I am serving up revenge, it is for every last person your website has disparaged and reviled these past 2 years. Permit me to enlarge on that with an anecdote.

I introduced myself to Dawn Meredith at the 50th COPA, adding that I was an administrator at the ROKC forum. I had hoped to engage her in small talk about Harvard, since my brother had attended their extension school, like her. But she immediately replied, "Greg Parker's been bad-mouthing me at that forum." And I could see the injury in her eyes, and the strength with which she carried herself. I replied with a white lie, "I wasn't aware of that," and that was the end of our conversation.

It was your insult, Greg, your Australian blowhard bullying, that damaged that introduction. Somebody has to call you on your bulls***. It's time to grow up. Will you ever assume personal responsibility for the slop, filth and denigration generated by your website? I've seriously considered filing criminal charges. You've done a lot of damage to research community relations and might want to extend some apologies.

This is an unsubstantiated accusation backed only by a patently phony anecdote. Why was my rebuttal removed but this accusation left up?

James Gordon responded to why my rebuttal was removed with this:

I would have thought it was clear that threads reflecting personal disputes by members are not allowed on the discussion forum. When detected they will be hidden. The PM function is available for that kind of conversation.

This is not a matter for discussion: this is an administration privilege and interpretation.

Apart from the fact that no one but James knows what an "administration privilege and interpretation" is (although it does sound a bit like "we don't care. Admins can make the rules up as they go along"), the "dispute" was non-existent until Gilbride posted the above false accusations. Based on those comments by James, Gilbride's post should have been deleted immediately. Instead, we have the situation where the accusation is a-okay with the admins - but the rebuttal - along with the evidence supporting that rebuttal given by a third party brought into this by Gilbride, was deleted or otherwise made disappear.

It is not just me who is aggrieved by this. I am certain Dawn must be as well, having her named being used in Gilbride's fantasy attempt to shut me down.

This deliberate act of supporting a falsehood while deleting the facts, amounts to the Ed Forum being a willing partner in this flagrant attempt at character assassination. If Gilbride's post is not deleted, or alternatively, if the rebuttal is not reinstated along Dawns' post in support of that rebuttal, I will have to take further action. That is not a veiled threat of any kind. Fact is, I have no idea what action I will take - but there will be action - that much I promise.

I asked nicely for an explanation in those deleted threads, James. I will be MY "privilege" to keep at this until I get justice.

Edited January 31, 2016 by Greg Parker

[Ed LeDoux]

Thanks Tommy, but before we rewrite the TSBD architecture to include a feature never before called a vestibule, two facts:

Hallways, corridors and Passages come in all lengths, curves, angles and number of doors.
Some even have doors separating the hallway or passage into sections.

Vestibules connect to the exterior of buildings.



You have a date set for the vestibular nuptials yet? Where will the reception be, a small 'room' with three doors?
I guess that makes the storage room behind the lunch room also a vestibule! You can hold it there.






When Oswald used the term correctly it places himself in a very specific area. First floor, entrance. (see #171)

Mazel tov,
Ed