One Last Thing Before Xmas Eve: 2nd Floor Lunch Room Encounter

[Thomas Graves]

39 minutes ago, Sandy Larsen said:

 

Thanks Tommy, that's how I took it. I just wasn't sure how others would take it.

 

Sandy Old Buddy,

Do you think Baker was haulin' you-know-what down to the corner so he could hang out with his buds down there for a couple of minutes, you know, thinking that maybe they had an extra donut or two and he wanted to get there before they could eat 'em all up?

--  TG  (aka "Tommy", "Tom," "Thomas," "Mr. Graves!", etc)

 

Edited April 5, 2018 by Thomas Graves

[Michael Clark]

17 minutes ago, Thomas Graves said:

Sandy Old Buddy,

Do you think Baker was haulin' you-know-what down to the corner so he could hang out with his buds down there for a couple of minutes, you know, thinking that maybe they had an extra donut or two and he wanted to get there before they could eat 'em all up?

--  TG  (aka "Tommy", "Tom," "Thomas," "Mr. Graves!", etc)

 

Tommy, is that what Sandy said?

What are YOU trying to say?

[Thomas Graves]

50 minutes ago, Kathy Beckett said:

Michael, It appears that Mr. Larsen and Mr. Graves are in disagreement as to what Baker did.  Thomas was trying to be a smart aleck in his  question to Mr. Larsen.

 

 

Kathy,

 

Actually, I was just trying to be witty and humorous and thereby deaden the pain a bit for Sandy Larsen as I try to elicit from him a totally implausible reply from as to where in the world he thinks Marion Baker could have been running like a madman to in Couch-Darnell. 

Sandy Larsen, my old comrade in arms. (We did, after all, find Gloria Calvery watching the motorcade in the Z-film and ...  gasp ... talking with Billy Lovelady (probably) on the steps in Couch-Darnell about 25 seconds after the final shot, you know.)

 

--  TG

 

PS  I wonder if Michel has any ideas on this?

How long after the assassination do YOU think Baker entered the front door of the TSBD, Michael? (That is, of course, IF you believe he entered the front door.)

Chris Davidson has Baker at the TSBD curb in 29 seconds, so after pushing his way up the steps past Calvery and Woman In White (Karan Hicks?, Carol Reed?), I figure 35 seconds, tops.

What say you?

 

Edited April 6, 2018 by Thomas Graves

[David Von Pein]

1 hour ago, Thomas Graves said:

We did, after all, find Gloria Calvery...talking with Billy Lovelady (probably) on the steps in Couch-Darnell about 25 seconds after the final shot.

There's no proof whatsoever that the woman you think is Gloria Calvery is really Calvery. It could very well be some unknown person. And it probably is an "unknown" person, given the precise time of that Couch/Darnell clip (coupled with the testimony of various witnesses as to their activities in the minutes following the assassination).

In short ....

How can anyone sincerely believe that the blurry frames extracted from a poor-quality film provide enough information to positively and unequivocally "prove" the identity of a woman near the TSBD steps? Proving the identity of ANYONE in those blurry frames—even the people who are KNOWN to have been standing near the TSBD doorway at 12:30 PM—is a tedious and difficult chore (right?), let alone attempting to identify a person (Calvery) who wasn't even standing near the Depository entrance when the shooting occurred.

Edited April 6, 2018 by David Von Pein

[Sandy Larsen]

4 hours ago, Thomas Graves said:

Sandy Old Buddy,

Do you think Baker was haulin' you-know-what down to the corner so he could hang out with his buds down there for a couple of minutes, you know, thinking that maybe they had an extra donut or two and he wanted to get there before they could eat 'em all up?

--  TG  (aka "Tommy", "Tom," "Thomas," "Mr. Graves!", etc)

 

Tommy,

Not only do I know that Baker was headed to the corner -- because that is where the films show his footsteps to be headed -- but Andrej's model shows that a colossal collision would have taken place had Baker run up the stairway instead.

 

[Sandy Larsen]

29 minutes ago, David Von Pein said:

There's no proof whatsoever that the woman you think is Gloria Calvery is really Calvery. It could very well be some unknown person. And it probably is an "unknown" person, given the precise tuime of that Couch/Darnell clip coupled with the testimony of various witnesses as to their activities in the minutes following the assassination.

In short....

How can anyone sincerely believe that the blurry frames extracted from a poor-quality film provide enough information to "prove" the identity of a woman near the TSBD steps? Proving the identity of ANYONE in those blurry frames—even the people who are KNOWN to have been standing near the TSBD doorway at 12:30 PM—is a tedious and difficult chore (right?), let alone attempting to identify a person (Calvery) who wasn't even standing near the Depository entrance when the shooting occurred.

 

DVP,

You  have no idea what you are talking about.

A year ago Thomas and I had multiple research threads going simultaneously, and we most definitely located Gloria Calvery. I wish I could refer you to all those threads, unfortunately PhotoBucket has been holding our photos hostage.

I will be posting a presentation within a couple weeks that proves that Karen Westbrook is wrong in her identification of Gloria Calvery. Plus I will explain how she got it wrong.

 

[Thomas Graves]

On 4/5/2018 at 8:10 PM, Sandy Larsen said:

 

Tommy,

Not only do I know that Baker was headed to the corner -- because that is where the films show his footsteps to be headed -- but Andrej's model shows that a colossal collision would have taken place had Baker run up the stairway instead.

 

 

Sandy,

 

In my humble opinion Andrej's model is seriously flawed. For example, his PM can't be positioned correctly because if you look at his bird's eye view model, you see that although Andrej does correctly have PM's right hand in direct sunlight, the plane of dark-meeting-light in Weigman is over towards the railing (and actually splits Lovelady almost in two), about a foot more [Edit: in the direction of the center handrail] than Andrej has it [i.e., the dark-meets-light plane] in his model, which plane is observable there by looking at the building's shadow on the landing that Frazier is standing fully on, and PM is kinda standing on [Edit: , with one foot on the landing, and the other foot on the top step].

Regardless, as I wrote above, Chris Davidson says Baker reached the curb in front of the TSBD about 29 seconds after the final shot.  I said above that I thought Baker entered the front door about 6 seconds after that (i.e., about 35 seconds after the final shot).  Don't you think 6 seconds is enough time for Baker to "put on the brakes" and make his way up the steps to the front door, whether or not Pauline Sanders was the ... gasp ... only witness (iirc) to say that she actually saw him enter the TSBD, Sandy? Or something like that?

Okay, how about 40 seconds?

https://www.google.com/search?q=Wiegman+Prayer+Man+JFK&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjooJ-ElaHaAhWPulMKHQGRAYsQ_AUICigB&biw=2282&bih=1176#imgrc=oCWWT_ZciFlJbM:

 

--  TG

 

Edited April 11, 2018 by Thomas Graves

[Sandy Larsen]

1 hour ago, Thomas Graves said:

 

Sandy,

 

In my humble opinion Andrej's model is seriously flawed. For example, his PM can't be positioned correctly because if you look at his bird's eye view model, you see that although Andrej does correctly have PM's right hand in direct sunlight, the plane of dark-meeting-light in Weigman is over towards the railing (and actually splits Lovelady almost in two) about a foot more than Andrej has that dark-meets-light plane in his model, which plane is observable there by looking at the building's shadow on the landing that Frazier is standing fully on, and PM is kinda standing on.

Regardless, as I wrote above, Chris Davidson says Baker reached the curb in front of the TSBD about 29 seconds after the final shot.  I said above that I thought Baker entered the front door about 6 seconds after that (i.e., about 35 seconds after the final shot).  Don't you think 6 seconds is enough time for Baker to "put on the brakes" and make his way up the steps to the front door, whether or not Pauline Sanders was the ... gasp ... only witness (iirc) to say that she actually saw him enter the TSBD, Sandy? Or something like that?

Okay, how about 40 seconds?

https://www.google.com/search?q=Wiegman+Prayer+Man+JFK&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjooJ-ElaHaAhWPulMKHQGRAYsQ_AUICigB&biw=2282&bih=1176#imgrc=oCWWT_ZciFlJbM:

 

--  TG

 

Tommy,

If you take the frames of Couch/Darnell (or whatever they are), and single step through them back-and-forth, you can make out where Baker's toes hit the pavement. A simple matter of connecting the dots show that Baker was headed toward the corner. By the final frame where Baker can be seen, he is to the east of the TSBD entrance. And there are multiple ways of confirming that.

I would bet my life on this. I don't care what Chris Davidson or anybody else says.

Note that this doesn't further any theory or agenda I have. It is just what the evidence clearly indicates.

 

P.S. I have no idea what happens after the clip ends. So it's possible Baker stopped, reversed course, and made his way up the steps. But I wouldn't bet on that because people running as fast as Baker was rarely do that sort of thing. But it's possible.

 

Edited April 6, 2018 by Sandy Larsen

[Thomas Graves]

On 4/5/2018 at 8:55 PM, Thomas Graves said:

 

 

On Thursday at 8:10 PM, Sandy Larsen posted:

Tommy,

Not only do I know that Baker was headed to the corner -- because that is where the films show his footsteps to be headed -- but Andrej's model shows that a colossal collision would have taken place had Baker run up the stairway instead.

........................

My edited reply:

Sandy,

 

In my humble opinion Andrej's model is seriously flawed. For example, his PM can't be positioned correctly because if you look at his "bird's eye view model," you see that although Andrej does correctly have PM's right hand in direct sunlight (EDIT: as can be seen in Weigman), the plane of dark-meeting-light in Weigman is over towards the railing (and actually splits Lovelady almost in two), about a foot more [Edit: in the direction of the center handrail] than Andrej has it [i.e., the dark-meets-light plane] in his model, which plane is observable there by looking at the building's shadow on the landing that Frazier is standing fully on, and PM is kinda standing on [Edit: , with one foot on the landing, and the other foot on the top step].

Regardless, as I wrote above, Chris Davidson says Baker reached the curb in front of the TSBD about 29 seconds after the final shot.  I said above that I thought Baker entered the front door about 6 seconds after that (i.e., about 35 seconds after the final shot).  Don't you think 6 seconds is enough time for Baker to "put on the brakes" and make his way up the steps to the front door, whether or not Pauline Sanders was the ... gasp ... only witness (iirc) to say that she actually saw him enter the TSBD, Sandy? Or something like that?

Okay, how about 40 seconds?

https://www.google.com/search?q=Wiegman+Prayer+Man+JFK&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjooJ-ElaHaAhWPulMKHQGRAYsQ_AUICigB&biw=2282&bih=1176#imgrc=oCWWT_ZciFlJbM:

 

--  TG

 

All of which might have made the landing even more congested, and led to a big collision up there, too, I suppose!

 

EDIT ALERT:  But motorcycle policeman Marrion Baker looks sufficiently nimble afoot (was he a running back or a wide receiver or a linebacker or a defensive back on his high school football team?) to be able to avoid such a catastrophe, and let's face it, most people get out of the way of an onrushing policeman, don't they?

 

 

Edited April 11, 2018 by Thomas Graves