Greg Parker Posted January 16, 2016 Share Posted January 16, 2016 No encounter with a cop on the fist floor? Oswald said there was, and a number of newspaper accounts agreed, citing A COP... Greg, I just read the newspaper account of the first-floor cop-Oswald encounter, over on the Oswald Leaving TSBD thread. But I don't recall any report of Oswald saying the encounter with a cop occurred on the first floor. Can you quote that, or tell me where to find it? From Holmes' testimony. Holmes was the only interrogator in that room not trained in the Reid Interrogation Technique. Because of that, he is the most trust-worthy as far as the alibi goes. He said, "I went down, and as I started to go out and see what it was all about, a police officer stopped me just before I got to the front door, and started to ask me some questions, and my superintendent of the place stepped up and told the officers that I am one of the employees of the building, so he told me to step aside for a little bit and we will get to you later. Then I just went on out in the crowd to see what it was all about." And he wouldn't tell what happened then. Sandy, Please ask Greg what he means by "The Reid Interrogation Technique." I would myself, but I figure he's more likely to give you a straight answer. Thanks, --Tommy Tommy, I know you are bone lazy.... but even you can copy and paste the term into a search engine. If you have any interest in getting to the bottom of what was really going on in those interrogation sessions, why the cops spoke to the media and lied and how they developed their own scenarios, you'll look it up. If you're not that interested, don't bother. Or you can just wait awhile until I get around to posting it all for you... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Prudhomme Posted January 16, 2016 Author Share Posted January 16, 2016 No encounter with a cop on the fist floor? Oswald said there was, and a number of newspaper accounts agreed, citing A COP... Greg, I just read the newspaper account of the first-floor cop-Oswald encounter, over on the Oswald Leaving TSBD thread. But I don't recall any report of Oswald saying the encounter with a cop occurred on the first floor. Can you quote that, or tell me where to find it? From Holmes' testimony. Holmes was the only interrogator in that room not trained in the Reid Interrogation Technique. Because of that, he is the most trust-worthy as far as the alibi goes. He said, "I went down, and as I started to go out and see what it was all about, a police officer stopped me just before I got to the front door, and started to ask me some questions, and my superintendent of the place stepped up and told the officers that I am one of the employees of the building, so he told me to step aside for a little bit and we will get to you later. Then I just went on out in the crowd to see what it was all about." And he wouldn't tell what happened then. If we think about it a while, this testimony, given by Holmes, actually makes quite a bit of sense. How many people did Baker run into when he went into the TSBD? Two by the elevators, more by the front door, possibly more on the upper floors (I'm sure he would have seen the ladies on the 4th floor, and possibly heard Williams, Norman and Jarman on the 5th floor). Did Baker stick his revolver into the stomachs of anyone beside Oswald? Nope, at least not anyone Baker and Truly told us about. What was so special about Oswald, on the 2nd floor, that made Baker detain him at gun point, until he was identified by Truly as a TSBD employee? OTOH, if Holmes is speaking the truth, what is the only thing Oswald was doing at the front door that not one other TSBD employee was doing? Give up? Simple. Oswald was leaving the building, and THAT simple act would be the only thing that would make Baker want to detain him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Parker Posted January 16, 2016 Share Posted January 16, 2016 (edited) Kudos for giving it some actual thought, Bob. Why I don't think this is a reference to Baker. See the bits highlighted: "and started to ask me some questions, and my superintendent of the place stepped up and told the officers that I am one of the employees of the building, so he told me to step aside for a little bit and we will get to you later. Baker had no time for questioning anyone at the front door - and nor would he have asked anyone to step aside so he could get to him later. No. The cop here is Welcome Barnett. The questions asked would be name and address - at which time Oswald has flashed his library card upside down causing Barnett to transcribe it as "Harvey Lee Oswald" with the Elsbeth address - the only ID Lee had with that address on it. As you can see, looking at this upside down, you get "Harvey Lee Oswald" - same as Revill's list. Edited January 16, 2016 by Greg Parker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Parker Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 (edited) OTOH, if Holmes is speaking the truth, what is the only thing Oswald was doing at the front door that not one other TSBD employee was doing? For fwiw, Sean postulated that the only interaction Baker would have had with Oswald would have been that Oswald was one of the small group asked by Baker for directions - with Truly stepping in to volunteer as tour guide... and he could well be right. Edited January 17, 2016 by Greg Parker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Prudhomme Posted January 17, 2016 Author Share Posted January 17, 2016 (edited) Kudos for giving it some actual thought, Bob. Why I don't think this is a reference to Baker. See the bits highlighted: "and started to ask me some questions, and my superintendent of the place stepped up and told the officers that I am one of the employees of the building, so he told me to step aside for a little bit and we will get to you later. Baker had no time for questioning anyone at the front door - and nor would he have asked anyone to step aside so he could get to him later. No. The cop here is Welcome Barnett. The questions asked would be name and address - at which time Oswald has flashed his library card upside down causing Barnett to transcribe it as "Harvey Lee Oswald" with the Elsbeth address - the only ID Lee had with that address on it. As you can see, looking at this upside down, you get "Harvey Lee Oswald" - same as Revill's list. Hi Greg When did Officer Welcome Barnett (bet he had to fight his way through school with a name like that - small wonder he became a cop) enter the TSBD? I'm a bit puzzled to notice that Holmes testified Oswald "told the officers", indicating the cop Oswald encountered was part of a group of cops. Why would Baker have no time to question anyone at the front door? If Truly vouched for Oswald at the front door, who went up the stairs with Baker? P.S. You do realize, I hope, that if Oswald did not arrive at the front door until the later group of cops entered, this makes it possible for Oswald to have been in the 2nd floor lunch room as Baker and Truly went by. The only fly in the ointment, though, is Truly vouching for Oswald when confronted by Welcome Barnett. Edited January 17, 2016 by Robert Prudhomme Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Parker Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 (edited) Kudos for giving it some actual thought, Bob. Why I don't think this is a reference to Baker. See the bits highlighted: "and started to ask me some questions, and my superintendent of the place stepped up and told the officers that I am one of the employees of the building, so he told me to step aside for a little bit and we will get to you later. Baker had no time for questioning anyone at the front door - and nor would he have asked anyone to step aside so he could get to him later. No. The cop here is Welcome Barnett. The questions asked would be name and address - at which time Oswald has flashed his library card upside down causing Barnett to transcribe it as "Harvey Lee Oswald" with the Elsbeth address - the only ID Lee had with that address on it. As you can see, looking at this upside down, you get "Harvey Lee Oswald" - same as Revill's list. Hi Greg When did Officer Welcome Barnett (bet he had to fight his way through school with a name like that - small wonder he became a cop) enter the TSBD? I'm a bit puzzled to notice that Holmes testified Oswald "told the officers", indicating the cop Oswald encountered was part of a group of cops. Why would Baker have no time to question anyone at the front door? If Truly vouched for Oswald at the front door, who went up the stairs with Baker? P.S. You do realize, I hope, that if Oswald did not arrive at the front door until the later group of cops entered, this makes it possible for Oswald to have been in the 2nd floor lunch room as Baker and Truly went by. The only fly in the ointment, though, is Truly vouching for Oswald when confronted by Welcome Barnett. IMO, whatever scenario you come up with, it has to take into account, not only that Oswald's name was at the top of Revill's list (indicating he was the first permitted to leave, you have to have a scenario that explains ( 1 ) the old address and ( 2 ) the name being the wrong way around. The only explanation I've ever seen given is that it all came from Col. Jones of the 112th MIG. But there is not any evidence for that. Not one bit. The scenario I outlined above however explains it all logically, neatly and cleanly without the need to invent anything. Here is Barnett's testimony on when he arrived: Mr. LIEBELER - How long do you think it was from the time the last shot was fired until the time you were at the front door keeping people from going in and out? Mr. BARNETT - It was around 2 1/2 minutes. Maybe between 2 1/2 or 3 minutes. Mr. LIEBELER - From the time the last shot was fired until the time you were standing at that front door? Mr. BARNETT - Yes. Mr. LIEBELER - Did you let anybody out of the building after you got there? Mr. BARNETT - No, sir; until they were authorized. Mr. LIEBELER - Who was in a position to authorize people to come in and out? Mr. BARNETT - Well, of course, for sometime no one left except city, county, and Federal officers, and then after the people in the building were took into the small room there and questioned, they were brought to the door by a lieutenant, which I don't remember his name, but that was sometime after, and he brought them to the door and told us to let them out. Mr. LIEBELER - Now, it was possible that people could have left the building between the time the last shot was fired and the time you and officer Smith stationed yourself there? Mr. BARNETT - When I went to the door to get the name of the building, there were people going in and out then. Mr. LIEBELER - There were? Mr. BARNETT - Yes, sir. Mr. LIEBELER - Do you think it was as quickly as 2 1/2 minutes from the time the last shot was fired until the time you got to the front door? Do you think it was that quick? Mr. BARNETT - I believe it was 2 1/2 minute probably from the time I ran from the back to the front. That was probably 2 1/2 minutes. Then it took me 20 or 30 seconds more before I got to the front there. Mr. LIEBELER - So you recollection is that it was fairly short order that you got to the front door? Mr. BARNETT - Three minutes at the most. As to your puzzlement over the plural... here is Barnett again "I was there until 3 o'clock, at the door there with one of the other officers, J.D. Smith. " Oswald allegedly left before Barnett arrived which raises some issues. Was Oswald psychic? How did he know there would be officerS guarding the front door? Then there is Pierce Allman whom Oswald seems to indicate came after his chat with the cops. If so, then Allman has flashed some type of credential to get in and again with Oswald (Oswald thought he was USSS). 1. Oswald has a chat about lunch with Piper. Piper can't recall whether Lee responded that he was going "out" or "up" and Piper further claims not to have noted which. The alleged interaction between Oswald and the 6th floor crew never happened. No one actually said they SAW Oswald at that time. I believe the conversation was with the one person we know WAS up there - Jack Dougherty. 2. Oswald does go "up" to the second floor for his coke and passes Mrs Reid on the way back down. If any words are exchanged at all, it is merely small talk - something Oswald can't process because of his Asperger Syndrome - and thus is considered rude because of his non-responsiveness throughout his life. 3. Oswald goes back down and is drawn outside because of the noise and assumes the PM position. No one notices because all eyes are on the street. 4. He then re-enters and is one the people Baker sees when he looks around asking for directions. 5. Oswald is in or near the small stock room when Campbell and Reid re-enter. 6. Oswald then attempts to leave but is stopped by Barnett and asked to step aside and questioned. He flashes his library card as ID. 7. Oswald is told he can leave by Truly or his side-kick Shelley. The rabbit has been let loose for the hounds. 8. Before leaving he gives Allman directions to the phone. 9. He leaves through the docking area which is only being very loosely watched. He may have left with Buell, with Buell dropping him at the TT. Edited January 17, 2016 by Greg Parker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Graves Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 No encounter with a cop on the fist floor? Oswald said there was, and a number of newspaper accounts agreed, citing A COP... Greg, I just read the newspaper account of the first-floor cop-Oswald encounter, over on the Oswald Leaving TSBD thread. But I don't recall any report of Oswald saying the encounter with a cop occurred on the first floor. Can you quote that, or tell me where to find it? From Holmes' testimony. Holmes was the only interrogator in that room not trained in the Reid Interrogation Technique. Because of that, he is the most trust-worthy as far as the alibi goes. He said, "I went down, and as I started to go out and see what it was all about, a police officer stopped me just before I got to the front door, and started to ask me some questions, and my superintendent of the place stepped up and told the officers that I am one of the employees of the building, so he told me to step aside for a little bit and we will get to you later. Then I just went on out in the crowd to see what it was all about." And he wouldn't tell what happened then. Sandy, Please ask Greg what he means by "The Reid Interrogation Technique." I would myself, but I figure he's more likely to give you a straight answer. Thanks, --Tommy Tommy, I know you are bone lazy.... but even you can copy and paste the term into a search engine. If you have any interest in getting to the bottom of what was really going on in those interrogation sessions, why the cops spoke to the media and lied and how they developed their own scenarios, you'll look it up. If you're not that interested, don't bother. Or you can just wait awhile until I get around to posting it all for you... Greg, I'm honestly sorry and I do apologize. I just naturally assumed that it was one of your own ironic and somewhat humorous creations, referring, perhaps, to some bungled interrogation of Geraldean Reid or some such thing. My bad. --Tommy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandy Larsen Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 (edited) No encounter with a cop on the fist floor? Oswald said there was, and a number of newspaper accounts agreed, citing A COP... Greg, I just read the newspaper account of the first-floor cop-Oswald encounter, over on the Oswald Leaving TSBD thread. But I don't recall any report of Oswald saying the encounter with a cop occurred on the first floor. Can you quote that, or tell me where to find it? From Holmes' testimony. Holmes was the only interrogator in that room not trained in the Reid Interrogation Technique. Because of that, he is the most trust-worthy as far as the alibi goes. He said, "I went down, and as I started to go out and see what it was all about, a police officer stopped me just before I got to the front door, and started to ask me some questions, and my superintendent of the place stepped up and told the officers that I am one of the employees of the building, so he told me to step aside for a little bit and we will get to you later. Then I just went on out in the crowd to see what it was all about." And he wouldn't tell what happened then. If we think about it a while, this testimony, given by Holmes, actually makes quite a bit of sense. How many people did Baker run into when he went into the TSBD? Two by the elevators, more by the front door, possibly more on the upper floors (I'm sure he would have seen the ladies on the 4th floor, and possibly heard Williams, Norman and Jarman on the 5th floor). Did Baker stick his revolver into the stomachs of anyone beside Oswald? Nope, at least not anyone Baker and Truly told us about. What was so special about Oswald, on the 2nd floor, that made Baker detain him at gun point, until he was identified by Truly as a TSBD employee? OTOH, if Holmes is speaking the truth, what is the only thing Oswald was doing at the front door that not one other TSBD employee was doing? Give up? Simple. Oswald was leaving the building, and THAT simple act would be the only thing that would make Baker want to detain him. That sounds reasonable. Another possibility is that Oswald was the only one on the main floor -- in the closet near the front stairway -- when Baker entered and he thought it was suspicious. (I don't remember the woman's name, but in her statement she said that nobody was on the main floor when she entered from outside.) After reading Holmes's WC testimony and his interrogation notes (thanks Greg!), and the first FBI interrogation report -- none of which mentions an armed Baker -- I was beginning to believe that Baker's encounter with Oswald didn't even involve Baker's gun, and that the gun story was a later fabrication. But then I saw the following news article (in a Sean Murphy post) that was reportedly written on 11/22/63: #1: From the Dallas Morning News, written by Kent Biffle 11/22, published 11/23: The fact that this early news report includes the gun story leads me to believe that it is true. (The "gun" part, that is.) So it seems to me that Baker did stop Oswald, gun drawn, but did so near the front entrance and not the 2nd floor lunchroom. Here is how I think the Baker/Oswald lunchroom story originated: This is from the first FBI report: "Oswald stated that he went to lunch at approximately noon and he claimed he ate his lunch on the first floor in the lunchroom; however he went to the second floor where the Coca-Cola machine was located and obtained a bottle of Coca-Cola for his lunch. Oswald claimed to be on the first floor when President John F. Kennedy passed this building." This account is true. At some point it became necessary to move Oswald away from the TSBD Entrance. To accomplish this, a conspirator took the 1st floor Baker/Oswald encounter and conflated it with the true FBI report (above) so that it has Baker witnessing Oswald at the rear of the 2nd floor instead of at the front of the 1st floor. Following is the result of the conflation, with changes in red: "Oswald stated that he went to lunch at approximately noon and he claimed he ate his lunch on the first floor in the lunchroom; however he went to the second floor where the Coca-Cola machine was located and obtained a bottle of Coca-Cola for his lunch. At this time a police officer came into the room with pistol drawn and asked him if he worked there. Mr. Truly was present and verified that he was an employee and the police officer thereafter left the room and continued through the building. Oswald claimed to be on the first floor when President John F. Kennedy passed this building." Compare this to the 2nd FBI report, which does have the 2nd floor Oswald/Baker encounter. I've highlighted the fabricated (conflated) part so that this account can be compared to the first, above. "[Oswald] was on the second floor of said building, having just purchased a Coca-cola form the soft-drink machine, at which time a police officer came into the room with pistol drawn and asked him if he worked there. Mr. Truly was present and verified that he was an employee and the police officer thereafter left the room and continued through the building. Oswald stated that he took this Coke down to the first floor and stood around and had lunch in the employees lunch room." If you remove the red part from this report, what is left is the true account. (I'm sure there is little, if anything, original here, as I am late to the game. The reason I post it is because the way I explain it might be useful to some readers.) Edited January 17, 2016 by Sandy Larsen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandy Larsen Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 (edited) Why I don't think this is a reference to Baker. See the bits highlighted: "and started to ask me some questions, and my superintendent of the place stepped up and told the officers that I am one of the employees of the building, so he told me to step aside for a little bit and we will get to you later. I'm a bit puzzled to notice that Holmes testified Oswald "told the officers", indicating the cop Oswald encountered was part of a group of cops. I think you guys might be taking Holmes's testimony a bit too literally, as if he reported what Oswald said with 100% accuracy. In his interrogation notes, Holmes says "....the policeman had him step aside momentarily . Following this, he simply walked out the front door of the building." If that is also taken literally, Holmes has Oswald walking out the front door and not out the docking door, as Greg suggests. That's just one example. Edited January 17, 2016 by Sandy Larsen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandy Larsen Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 1. Oswald has a chat about lunch with Piper. Piper can't recall whether Lee responded that he was going "out" or "up" and Piper further claims not to have noted which. The alleged interaction between Oswald and the 6th floor crew never happened. No one actually said they SAW Oswald at that time. I believe the conversation was with the one person we know WAS up there - Jack Dougherty. 2. Oswald does go "up" to the second floor for his coke and passes Mrs Reid on the way back down. If any words are exchanged at all, it is merely small talk - something Oswald can't process because of his Asperger Syndrome - and thus is considered rude because of his non-responsiveness throughout his life. 3. Oswald goes back down and is drawn outside because of the noise and assumes the PM position. No one notices because all eyes are on the street. 4. He then re-enters and is one the people Baker sees when he looks around asking for directions. 5. Oswald is in or near the small stock room when Campbell and Reid re-enter. 6. Oswald then attempts to leave but is stopped by Barnett and asked to step aside and questioned. He flashes his library card as ID. 7. Oswald is told he can leave by Truly or his side-kick Shelley. The rabbit has been let loose for the hounds. 8. Before leaving he gives Allman directions to the phone. 9. He leaves through the docking area which is only being very loosely watched. He may have left with Buell, with Buell dropping him at the TT. This scenario doesn't account for the news report(s) that a cop, with his gun drawn, spotted Oswald. Unless that was Barnett with the gun, which I doubt. Of course the news report could have been wrong about the gun. But if so, it's quite a coincidence that the official (fabricated) story also just happened to include that part of the story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Graves Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 (edited) 1. Oswald has a chat about lunch with Piper. Piper can't recall whether Lee responded that he was going "out" or "up" and Piper further claims not to have noted which. The alleged interaction between Oswald and the 6th floor crew never happened. No one actually said they SAW Oswald at that time. I believe the conversation was with the one person we know WAS up there - Jack Dougherty. 2. Oswald does go "up" to the second floor for his coke and passes Mrs Reid on the way back down. If any words are exchanged at all, it is merely small talk - something Oswald can't process because of his Asperger Syndrome - and thus is considered rude because of his non-responsiveness throughout his life. 3. Oswald goes back down and is drawn outside because of the noise and assumes the PM position. No one notices because all eyes are on the street. 4. He then re-enters and is one the people Baker sees when he looks around asking for directions. 5. Oswald is in or near the small stock room when Campbell and Reid re-enter. 6. Oswald then attempts to leave but is stopped by Barnett and asked to step aside and questioned. He flashes his library card as ID. 7. Oswald is told he can leave by Truly or his side-kick Shelley. The rabbit has been let loose for the hounds. 8. Before leaving he gives Allman directions to the phone. 9. He leaves through the docking area which is only being very loosely watched. He may have left with Buell, with Buell dropping him at the TT. This scenario doesn't account for the news report(s) that a cop, with his gun drawn, spotted Oswald. Unless that was Barnett with the gun, which I doubt. Of course the news report could have been wrong about the gun. But if so, it's quite a coincidence that the official (fabricated) story also just happened to include that part of the story. Sandy, "With gun drawn" in news reports (plural) and the official report? Nice catch! --Tommy Edited January 17, 2016 by Thomas Graves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Parker Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 his scenario doesn't account for the news report(s) that a cop, with his gun drawn, spotted Oswald. Unless that was Barnett with the gun, which I doubt. That's because it never happened. This was what Biffle overheard Truly telling Fritz. Truly was already dissembling [Truly was the "inside man" re setting Oswald up]. The true version was told by Campbell to a reporter from the New York Herald. Truly did not re-enter with Campbell. Campbell re-entered with Mrs. Reid. No Truly. No cop. Story quoting Campbell "Shortly after the shooting we raced back into the building. We saw Oswald in a small storage room on the ground floor." NY Herald Tribune, 11/23/63. I appreciate you guys trying to get your heads around this, but you're looking at a few stones in the shallow end of the rockpool. It's a big pool - plenty to look at. But you need to dive in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Parker Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 (edited) Why I don't think this is a reference to Baker. See the bits highlighted: "and started to ask me some questions, and my superintendent of the place stepped up and told the officers that I am one of the employees of the building, so he told me to step aside for a little bit and we will get to you later. I'm a bit puzzled to notice that Holmes testified Oswald "told the officers", indicating the cop Oswald encountered was part of a group of cops. I think you guys might be taking Holmes's testimony a bit too literally, as if he reported what Oswald said with 100% accuracy. In his interrogation notes, Holmes says "....the policeman had him step aside momentarily . Following this, he simply walked out the front door of the building." If that is also taken literally, Holmes has Oswald walking out the front door and not out the docking door, as Greg suggests. That's just one example. In his testimony, he states that after being asked to step aside he "just went on out in the crowd to see what it was all about." Holmes just has his chronology wrong. Oswald would not have been able to just wander out the door after being told to "step aside". He had gone out to check the noise just prior the arrival of the motorcade. In the 9 points I made, there is only one I would concede possibly never happened - Oswald being the person (or one of the people) asked by Baker for directions up. ----------- I have been thinking about this and studying the evidence of it for 15 years. Sean Murphy was not the first one - nor was I - to suggest Oswald was downstairs the whole time. But no one has come close to the work Sean or myself have put into this. Edited January 17, 2016 by Greg Parker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandy Larsen Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 Why I don't think this is a reference to Baker. See the bits highlighted: "and started to ask me some questions, and my superintendent of the place stepped up and told the officers that I am one of the employees of the building, so he told me to step aside for a little bit and we will get to you later. I'm a bit puzzled to notice that Holmes testified Oswald "told the officers", indicating the cop Oswald encountered was part of a group of cops. I think you guys might be taking Holmes's testimony a bit too literally, as if he reported what Oswald said with 100% accuracy. In his interrogation notes, Holmes says "....the policeman had him step aside momentarily . Following this, he simply walked out the front door of the building." If that is also taken literally, Holmes has Oswald walking out the front door and not out the docking door, as Greg suggests. That's just one example. In his testimony, he states that after being asked to step aside he "just went on out in the crowd to see what it was all about." Holmes just has his chronology wrong. Oswald would not have been able to just wander out the door after being told to "step aside". He had gone out to check the noise just prior the arrival of the motorcade. In the 9 points I made, there is only one I would concede possibly never happened - Oswald being the person (or one of the people) asked by Baker for directions up. ----------- I have been thinking about this and studying the evidence of it for 15 years. Sean Murphy was not the first one - nor was I - to suggest Oswald was downstairs the whole time. But no one has come close to the work Sean or myself have put into this. I'm fairly new at this. But by following a couple of Robert's threads, and paying attention only to first/second day statements, within two or three weeks I came to the conclusion that the 2nd floor encounter with Baker never occurred. By reading early statements I thought I'd figured out how the lunchroom encounter was invented, including the removal of Baker from the true story. Then I saw that Biffle article and that messed me up. It brought Baker back into the story. (I assumed that "cop" = Baker.) The thing that really helped in my understanding is when you said that the cop-with-drawn-gun story occurs only when Truly is involved. Anyway thanks for answering my questions. I'm gonna go back and re-read all you've written in this thread, and re-read all the relevant early statements to confirm in my mind that they fit your 9 points. So far, what I remember and have in front of me fits nicely. Though, as you said, Holmes's chronology is off. The 1st FBI report is better in that respect, though less detailed. (Sorry, I don't mean to question what you say. I just am very cautious when accepting new facts.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandy Larsen Posted January 18, 2016 Share Posted January 18, 2016 1. Oswald has a chat about lunch with Piper. Piper can't recall whether Lee responded that he was going "out" or "up" and Piper further claims not to have noted which. The alleged interaction between Oswald and the 6th floor crew never happened. No one actually said they SAW Oswald at that time. I believe the conversation was with the one person we know WAS up there - Jack Dougherty. 2. Oswald does go "up" to the second floor for his coke and passes Mrs Reid on the way back down. If any words are exchanged at all, it is merely small talk - something Oswald can't process because of his Asperger Syndrome - and thus is considered rude because of his non-responsiveness throughout his life. 3. Oswald goes back down and is drawn outside because of the noise and assumes the PM position. No one notices because all eyes are on the street. 4. He then re-enters and is one the people Baker sees when he looks around asking for directions. 5. Oswald is in or near the small stock room when Campbell and Reid re-enter. 6. Oswald then attempts to leave but is stopped by Barnett and asked to step aside and questioned. He flashes his library card as ID. 7. Oswald is told he can leave by Truly or his side-kick Shelley. The rabbit has been let loose for the hounds. 8. Before leaving he gives Allman directions to the phone. 9. He leaves through the docking area which is only being very loosely watched. He may have left with Buell, with Buell dropping him at the TT. I'm gonna go back and re-read all you've written in this thread, and re-read all the relevant early statements to confirm in my mind that they fit your 9 points. So far, what I remember and have in front of me fits nicely. Greg, I have re-read all the relevant testimony (that I'm aware of), removed the parts that I've concluded were later fabrications (the 2nd floor Baker/Oswald encounter), and compared what's left to your list of nine assertions. It all seems to fit with the possible exception of Baker seeing Oswald inside when he was asking for directions (because this seems unnecessary). As of now I'm using your model for my working theory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Please sign in to comment
You will be able to leave a comment after signing in
Sign In Now