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The Real Ruth and Michael Paine

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Again, all you offer is empty verbiage masking as insight and knowledge.

Why didn't they bill Oswald? Well, you had to FIND him first. LHO did not give a forwarding address! Ya' think?

As for this, Fish claimed he wrote it on March 27 - plenty of time to bill Oswald before he moved. But not one letter went out actually addressed to him - let alone a bill. This alone shows you will stoop to saying anything in protection of the WC and its portrayal of the Paines.

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Marina has made inconsistent statements. That makes her unreliable as a truth-teller. I assign a zero to Marina's veracity. That's a dispassionate zero.

Ruth Paine: If Ruth today, assuming she has a clear mind, said, "Lee kept his rifle in my garage, wrapped in a blanket.", would you believe her? Would you want her veracity to be tested by cross-examination?

There is no basis for believing either Marina or Ruth have been truth-tellers. Neither has been subject to cross-exam.

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Marina has made inconsistent statements. That makes her unreliable as a truth-teller. I assign a zero to Marina's veracity. That's a dispassionate zero.

Ruth Paine: If Ruth today, assuming she has a clear mind, said, "Lee kept his rifle in my garage, wrapped in a blanket.", would you believe her? Would you want her veracity to be tested by cross-examination?

There is no basis for believing either Marina or Ruth have been truth-tellers. Neither has been subject to cross-exam.

Jon, are you making a clear distinction between what Marina Oswald said in the first panicking days to the FBI and Secret Service, when she just denied everything, willy nilly, and her later, sworn testimony to the Warren Commission?

If you try to give them equal weight, I cannot agree with you. If you just look at her sworn testimony, though, then I ask you -- what is inconsistent?

If I just look at Marina's sworn WC testimony, Jon, I assign her a 100% veracity rating. I'm also speaking dispassionately. I believe in objectivity.

So, I ask you -- INSIDE THE WARREN COMMISSION TESTIMONY ONLY -- what do you find inconsistent in Marina's testimony?

Let's start with Marina -- and I'll get to Ruth later.


--Paul Trejo

Edited by Paul Trejo
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The fateful rifle of Lee Harvey Oswald vs. her statement on Oprah.

None of this matters as a matter of law. Truth is, Marina has swung from implicating her husband to exonerating him.

Believe her every utterance, if you wish. But please listen to every utterance.

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I wish you well and respect your view on Walker. I can't sign-up to it, but that's OK. It too seems contrived ... tempting misdirection, by a bunch of characters no more trustworthy or admirable than JFK's killers. Stay on it, if you will, but my request is to leave the Ruth Paine threads alone... unless you think that she's central to Walker's schemes. The same holds for Carol Hewett's work ... its original, thought-provoking and moves the conversation forward. It doesn't need to be refuted, point-by-point, in detail.

My interest in Ruth goes far beyond the contrived Walker letter, which is "discovered" eight days after the assassination. Ruth sent it to Marina, claiming that she had to have two books with her; one entitled Our Child and the other Book of Helpful Instructions. The FBI took seven latent fingerprints off the note; none of them matched Lee or Marina. Later in life - when Ruth is interviewed in California - she trots out the letter as an article of faith. This alone makes me all the more wary of it... and 50 years later, it still smells fishy.

Letter aside, I mention Quakers, Philadelphia, Friends meetinghouses and the like not because I question Ruth's religious affiliations, but rather because these are a local part of history for me. That Ruth was associated with this area, and taught in Germantown in later years, makes her story more interesting and personal. Quakers are a staunch and idealistic bunch; Ruth seems cut from that cloth. Ruth was described by Jim Garrison as a “rangy, intelligent woman with widespread interests... ". It is her behavior that is of interest. And the preponderance of information and coincidence surrounding Ruth Paine make her a person of interest in the renewed investigation of John Kennedy's murder.



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The fateful rifle of Lee Harvey Oswald vs. her statement on Oprah.

None of this matters as a matter of law. Truth is, Marina has swung from implicating her husband to exonerating him.

Believe her every utterance, if you wish. But please listen to every utterance.



You have reached conclusions.

FWIW, I believe there are facts but no firm conclusions.


Marina Oswald consistently told the WC attorneys (as did Ruth and Michael Paine) that she doubted that LHO was JFK's killer -- but she was overwhelmed by so much circumstantial evidence that she couldn't argue with the FBI any more.

So, when in later life she began to associate with various CT writers, she was not swinging from one extreme to the other. She is still trying to make sense of the data -- just like millions of Americans.

I already said I don't believe Marina's every utterance -- only her SWORN testimony. Before she took the oath, she denied everything, willy-nilly, to the FBI and Secret Service. None of those utterances can be taken at face value. Marina was in a panic.

Also, Jon, I have not reached conclusions. I have consistently, for more than 5 years here, admitted that I only have THEORY, and this is just my OPINION, based on my own reading and findings in the personal papers of General Walker, and a few interviews I've done with Harry Dean, Larrie Schmidt and a few others. I have no firm conclusions, yet.

My tendency is today toward the General Walker-did-it theory, which finds no more value in the CIA-did-it theories that have dominated the past fifty years -- and wasted everybody's time, for the most part.

The only great research done by Mark Lane and Jim Garrison was done BEFORE they converted to a CIA-did-it theory.

When Jim Garrison first started his investigation, he recognized that LHO was a Fake Marxist, who was associating with Guy Banister and a dozen other right-wing radicals. This is the True LHO.

But Jim Garrison was blown out of the water by Hoover, the FBI and even RFK. So, Garrison converted to a CIA-did-it theory -- partly because the CIA doesn't scream back.

I have no conclusions. But those who accuse Ruth Paine have only shown me such pitiful bits and pieces of pseudo-evidence, that I have to laugh.

Ruth Paine's mother-in-laws childhood friend was the lover of Allen Dulles -- they argue -- therefore Ruth Paine must have been in a CIA plot to kill JFK and blame LHO they conclude.

Those are the conclusions that should embarrass people, Jon. I hope you agree.


--Paul Trejo

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It speaks very poorly of Ruth Paine that she claims the preponderance of evidence convinced her that her assessment of Oswald was wrong. It just doesn't ring true. It's a good sound bite I suppose. But even if that were true at the time surely she would have cared enough to reassess her position as facts emerged. Did she ever see the Z film? Marina came around.

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Paul Trejo #235. Thanks for that detailed reply. Wow. My re-reply:

1. "The problem was the timing of the TEC agent..." LHO was applying at TSBD when the airport offer came to Ruth's phone and another call came the NEXT DAY when he worked his first day at the book warehouse. Lee was not beholden to Roy Truly (hence to Ochus V. Campbell hence to David Harold Byrd) even that second day when they bestowed upon him that crappy "job". You surely don't think they OWNED Lee because he broke the plane of the doorway seeking employment. The fact is that Ruth committed a horrible lie of omission by not even telling Lee about the much better job offer. And he owed nothing to that crappy job the first day, second day, or ever.

1.3 "Ruth's too liberal for Rightist plots." Very true. Ruth was led by the nose, there can be no doubt. It's almost laughable that the plot would apprise her of any part of the massive scheme to murder the POTUS in her backyard. I say "almost" because she could have had some hatred of the man, if only for his womanizing and Hollywood buddies. The hatred for Kennedy in so many circles cannot be overestimated. Oilmen, military, segregationists, old money, Cuban exiles, the list is a long one. Include the Miss Prisses who tsk-tsked anything that appeared jet-set, hence "immoral." Heck, the old impotent white Southern baldies hated him for having a full head of hair! And how dare he not shave it crew-cut style in solidarity with the jarheads who're "fottin fer are fraydumb"! ("Fighting for our freedom" if you are not familiar with the solipsistic idiocy of our fine fascist military who think they are a superior species to us civilian "dirtbags" because they flap their arms and prance around with a gun in their hands. Actually they're allergic to honest, productive labor, so they have to tell themselves that.)

1.5 "It was Marina who pressed Ruth Paine to call TSBD." You must know how that can work. E.g., a housewife doesn't feel like cooking dinner one night, and when hubby comes home, she moans about what a tough day SHE's had, and lets drop that the fish-house is having a buy-one-get-one-free-dinner. And voila, next day she's talking to one of the kids and says, "Your father took me out to eat seafood last night. IT WAS HIS IDEA." As if she did him a favor.

Ruth let drop that there was a job working with books (Lee's first love), which was a TOTAL LIE. There was no opening. And sure enough, Marina gets all enthusiastic about how perfect that would be for hubby. Ruth says, "Well, okay, if you want me to, I'll call them. For you and Lee." Right.

2.3 "White Russian hatred of Hitler's legacy." Yes and no. The WRs of 50 years previous, circa Russian Revolution, were fascists supreme. Thirty years after that, a female White Russian painter poisoned FDR to death for allying with the commies who "stole their birthright." (Webster Tarpley) It didn't have to be a WR who put a bug in RP's ear that the TSBD would be a good employer for the bookish Oswald. BTW, the Russians have an amazing capacity for change and genuine sympathy, to wit George de M. He ended up teaching at an all-black college after he'd fallen on hard times. But in WWII he did some nasty "jobs" for the Nazis.

2,5 "Lib Easterners vs. Con Easterners." For their own interests, they can change on a dime. They are not two monolithic camps. Witness Cord Meyer, who was a bigshot in the World Federation movement, then joined CIA, and ten years later he's helping shoot our president's brains out in the middle of the day in the middle of the street.

2.7 "RP and racial integration." So very true and it was genuine. Something that has always amazed me about the Paines and the Russian community in Dallas is how much they yearned for improvement in the lives of the common man, especially the downtrodden. This is a Russian characteristic and the Paines were attracted to them largely due to that. Though really, they all kept the black folk at more than arm's length; they loved them from a safe, great distance. Again, Ruth didn't have to bear ill will toward JFK to be used as a pawn in his demise.

2.8 "She didn't need anyone's pin money." (for vacations or whatever) How true. But ENTREE (where's the acute accent on this typy thing?), that's another thing. That's what she adored, being invited to the parties and the enclaves and the islands of The Great People. C'mon now, admit she was a bit of a butt-kisser when it came to the rich, famous, and powerful. Way more than the average American, which is pretty bad.

3.3,4 approx. "Whether she is/was a lesbian is irrelevant." First, a disclaimer: if I were a woman, I would be 100% lesbian, and maybe a violent one. Any man who came within spitting distance of me would be blinded by loogies in both eyes. I know how rotten we are. Plus we cause pregnancy, no walk in the park.

I don't know or care if Ruth was/is sexually attracted to her gender. BUT she definitely was a man-hater. Today, even that would not be relevant. But THEN, there can be no doubt it twisted people. Do I have to list the VIPs who were driven to psychopathy by the terror? To borrow a phrase from the great Willy Whitten over at JFK Facts, BLACKMAIL LEVERAGE. In those days, most of the powerful were either extorting or being extorted, some both like J Edgar Hoover, for money or goods or actions or inactions. How hard would it have been for someone "to get something" on goodwoman RP, and make her fear losing her children or her alimony or just her reputation? I think she's about 90% pure (not 100% as you seem to think), which is pretty good for a human. But doggone it, she stomped on a better man's neck, LHO's, when he was down.

Marina Oswald Porter knows what RP is made of, and pretty soon after the events.

4.0 "no coup d'etat in 1963" and 4.1 approx. "...for the coup to be truly victorious, US would have believed LHO a commie following Uncle Fidel's orders." NO. LBJ and the gang knew no moron, not even an American moron, could/would swallow that whopper. They knew not to push their "luck"

More soon: the problem of seeing The Far Right as too discrete an entity.

Edited by Roy Wieselquist
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What is your take on what Gordon Wayne Smith told Richard Gilbride, that he had seen Oswald and Marina at the Neely house a number of times?

That his wife said the opposite to federal authorities. Couldn't have been through fear. Oswald was dead and no one was looking for co-conspirators. Couldn't have been through pressure from the Feds - the pressure - if any - would be to confirm Oswald living there.

Oddly, the feds never seemed to ask her if ANYONE was living there at all. Maybe the answer to THAT is what they feared, and maybe Wayne is remembering someone and since officially it was Oswald, he assumed it must have been.

If anyone was living there, based on the evidence, it was a poor white, English speaking couple with 2 kids who fought loud and long with each other. This couple moved in in early March and moved out on May 1st. The male was employed - though obviously poorly paid, and was rude and crude.

I do have someone in mind who fits the bill... but am not prepared to say who just yet.

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Paul Trejo,

I must add more rebuttal to your statement in #235 that there was no coup in 1963.

On only the subject of the change in US foreign policy, you have probably read Jim DiEugenio's concise article, something like, "Reversal of U. S. Foreign Policy after 1963, EXCEPT Cuba and Vietnam." (because those two have been beaten to death) I'd link it here from my bookmarks, but I'm a techno-moron. Establishment historians do their darnedest to show that there has been nothing but continuity since WWII. And it can appear that way. What America did to Iran and Guatemala in the 1950s looks fascistic enough. Persia wouldn't play ball with the West over their oil and United Fruit wanted to make an extra dollar on bananas over and above the millions already made. So we had to destroy those two sovereign nations. And Patrice Lumumba was slaughtered as Kennedy took office, so what happened in the 60s and 70s was just more business as usual, right?

But no. With JFK out of the way, American and world fascism got going in earnest. [A gross error was here RE Dominican Republic. The following is what it should have been] 4-28-65, LBJ sent 42,000 troops to restore the anti-Juan Bosch military junta; 9-65, LBJ sent Marines to end another revolt when Bosch tried to return. But Indonesia may take the cake for the nastiest genocide of all time. CIA, Dutch and Belgians already had the list of PKI supporters when we shot Jack's brains out in Dallas. So, when the coast was clear, we murdered Sukarno and then methodically murdered his ilk until they were all gone. Historians put it at 400K, 500K tops, but it was at least a million, maybe two. And that's two million of the best and bravest. Sukarno's successor, military strongman and Western henchman Suharto ruled for more than 30 years, until the late 1990s.

Israel got the Bomb, despite everything JFK's admin had done to prevent Mid-East destabilization. Before Jack's body was cold, it was full speed ahead for Zionism's nuclear WMDs. And then in June 1967 at the start of the Six Days' War, a year to the day before RFK was gunned down in Los Angeles, LBJ and Mossad did their worst to send USS Liberty, a communications ship, to the bottom of the Mediterranean.

Central America, Brazil, Chile, Argentina, Congo again destabilizing nearly the entire African continent. A shortlist.

Then there's Vietnam and Southeast Asia, LBJ's pride and joy. There's never been anything like it. This is when the Military-Industrial Complex took over for good, though we didn't notice, like the frogs boiled slowly. Just three quick facts: 1. We dropped eight million TONS of bombs on SE Asia, 2-3 times what was expended all over the world in WWII. 2. 61% of the American boys who were killed in action hadn't seen their 21st birthday, not old enough to buy a beer today. 3. 1968 saw 108 official fraggings. It was actually several times that. In fact the Boomer draftees mutinied and ended the Vietnam War. Nixon merely codified it.

None of the above happened on Kennedy's watch.

The characteristics of a fascist nation/society:

-- marriage of big business and government

-- bloated, monstrous, bellicose military. America, 4.5% of the world's population, spends as much on "national defense" as the rest of the world put together; so, per capita, Americans spend about 20 times more than the rest of the world. We are the slaves of the military. They think they are immensely superior to civilian "dirtbags," their pet name for us. That's why USA is the only developed nation on Earth without universal health care, another thing stopped with the end of Kennedy

-- genocide (above), then along comes Dubya Bush who sees to the violent death of about two million Iraqis, in a blase fashion

-- racism, both FOR whites and AGAINST non-whites

-- vehement nationalism USA! USA! USA!

-- anti-labor, anti-democracy

-- a far-right oligarchy that gives special treatment to the wealthiest; i.e., the rich pay a smaller proportion of their income, due to a chaotic morass of tax codes, than working folk

So the far-right was not victorious 11-22-63?! How could they have been more victorious?

Another thing: KKK, Birchers, American Nazi Party, etc. are not the only far-right. They are only the most OPENLY far-right. CIA, DIA, MIC, Big Oil, Big Finance, they're all the same thing. They look down their nose at the workingman and fear nothing more than actually having to labor manually. This nation was founded upon slavery. The far-right's only concern is keeping it that way. Wage-slavery is still slavery. It's even better for the masters; they get the fruits of labor without any of the worries about labor's living conditions.

Edited by Roy Wieselquist
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Yet a careful reading of Ruth Paine's WC testimony shows that she wasn't raised as a Quaker, but she converted when she was in high school. Thus Ruth's interpretation of Quaker ethics will be more individual in her case, which has both positive and negative implications.

Can you give us the lists of positives and negatives?

Ruth also believed that she got a "calling from God" to learn the Russian language. Those are her own words, perhaps you knew that. The reason was that the Cold War was raging, and international human understanding was at a low point, and she thought she could help better if she knew how to speak Russian. That was her high-school motivation.

A "Calling from God" marks her as evangelical and not Hicksite. Evangelical Quakers look upon service to humanity as "social work" rather than religion. Anti-Communism on the other hand, would be a service to God and Church. The shallowness of your "understanding" is obvious.


The actual book has foot and end-notes not included here because of formatting issues:

Ruth Paine’s Midwest Quaker Roots
Ruth Hyde (the future Mrs. Michael Paine) started attending Quaker Meetings as a 15 year old living in Columbus, Ohio in 1947, but did not officially join the church until 1951. The Columbus meeting had been inaugurated circa 1840 by the Hicksite faction – a splinter group who eschewed Evangelical dogma in favor of Quietism. The Hicksites had been at the forefront of the anti-slavery movement, and their overall influence on society was much weightier than their numbers should have allowed. While looking inward, they performed outward acts of charity and benevolence.
Time and population growth, along with the consequent influx of protestant religions, had a profound effect on the views of the peace testimony at the very heart of the religion and has in retrospect, been seen by many as deleterious to Midwestern Quakerism.
By the end of WWII, the Hicksites no longer held sway. The new majority of conservatives and evangelicals looked upon service to humanity as social work rather than religion, and their “light” did not reside inside themselves, but had to be reached through the admission of sin and the hope of some implacably random redemption.
By 1969, the move to the right in the Midwest had gone so far as to cause one young Friend to read a prepared statement to the West Branch Yearly Meeting in Indiana. In the statement, the Friend bemoaned the slide toward materialism, and the loss of the belief that God was in every man. The Friend also pointed out the hypocrisy of treasuring their anti-slavery heritage while holding meetings which showed them to be “among the most segregated groups anywhere.”
Despite not committing to the Quaker faith until 1951, Ruth Hyde nonetheless, represented the Columbus Meeting at the 1947 Young Friends conference held at Earlham College in Richmond, Indiana – only about 50 miles from her home in Yellow Springs, Ohio.
Earlham College was something of a microcosm of Midwestern Quakerism. Faculty and alumni lists routinely displayed such names as William Cullen Davis, his son David, and D. Elton Trueblood. The elder Davis was President of Earlham from 1929 to 1946 and Trueblood was a theologian and White House confidante. The common denominators between some of these faculty and alumni listees were conservatism, anti-communism and the hint of being intelligence assets. One can also extract the names of a few John Birch Society heavyweights. This includes psychological warfare expert and Douglas MacArthur protégé, Bonner Fellers and his daughter Nancy Jane. In what appears to be an orchestrated incident, Nancy Jane left Earlham and enrolled at Vassar where, in an article for The Freeman, she accused her former college of grading her poorly based on differences in ideology. She then left the ensuing national furore behind by returning to Earlham and graduating. There was also E. Merrill Root who in retirement became the editor of Human Events.
There is one more graduate of Earlham who is of interest: Von Edwin Peacock, class of ’57. Von Peacock’s father, Virgil, had been a trustee of Earlham College and a board member of Quaker Haven.
During the time the FBI was conducting the Mexico City phase of its Oswald investigation, Von Peacock was the Acting Director of the American Friends Service Committee (AFSC). The AFSC owned and operated the Casa de los Amigos which functioned as a home base for AFSC programs and work camps, and as a guest house for visiting Quakers and volunteers. The FBI had been led to the Casa de los Amigos by a local Quaker named Homobono Alcarez Aragon who had reportedly seen Oswald in the company of young Americans thought to be staying at the Friends guest house.
The FBI interviewed Von Peacock, but failed to identify, let alone interview, the person who was the actual Director during 1963. His name was Ed Duckles and he was not only the director, but the founder of the non-profit organization. Despite this, his name appears nowhere in the 26 volumes of reports, interviews or other documentation.
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Whomever lived there was an English speaking woman with a baby, and a man someone whom was not friendly.
The conversations with her were recalled by Minnie Williams.

Received a call from Kristy Gray,
Kristy said she was not living with George and Clydie at the time but said her Aunt(?) was and handed the phone to a Minnie Williams.
She worked a lot and had a baby at the time she lived with Clydie but she does vividly recall Lee and Marina with baby June.
Marina spoke english to her. Not broken english either.
Oswalds did not drive.
Did not see any visitors.
Did not see them attend church.
Doesn't recall landlord/owner.
Thinks George and Clydie had a phone, but Marina did not ask to use it as far as Minnie knows.
Doesn't recall exactly what her and Marina discussed, baby stuff.

This Author has concluded the people whom lived till May 1st or 2nd at Neely were not Lee and Marina.
Anything Marina says must be vigorously challenged.

Lets look at the MC bus ticket (found while working with Priscilla Johnson)

This stub was in possession of Ruth Paine, as Marina says later she took this spanish tv program with her to the hotel the 22nd of Nov.
Couple points here, is Marina saying she collect these spanish magazines and the tv program after the assassination?
Is she saying she took a bus ticket with her to the hotel the first night in her suitcase that she had kept things she did not have till after she would have been at the hotel? which was swept by agents twice.
Anyways Marina tries to deflect that the TV program is in spanish (which she can not understand if she can't read the stub) when Russell asks about Lee not being able to understand/read spanish, by saying it wasn't in a spanish magazine but in a TV program, Point was Lee didn't speak/read Spanish.
But if she collected it after the assassination how would Lee have slipped a MC bus stub into it. He didn't.
The stubs shown are also not in any form English and Spanish. They are for Mexicans not Americans thus in Spanish.

While Ruth was in possession of the suitcase at her home is when this item appears in a spanish language tv guide pamphlet.

And per Marina its from Ruth's..and Marina never examined it before. Okay,
Marina says a "person" at her house read the ticket stub and told Marina, Marina gives the material to the FBI. This is very late in the Warren Commissions tenure
this material is given to the FBI during PJM snooping about, a "mystery person" at her house reading spanish tickets to her.
What was in both Spanish and English exactly like Marina says is not the bus ticket, but the TV guide.
My conclusion is she had read an examined this pamphlet and even she may have made some of the markings we see. Would she have liked to of seen a musical? Yes very likely.

So where is the Spanish Language Television Programme? What was the date of publication? And the markings? See Below:
We are led to believe Lee marked it " LEE OSWA" and was to see an English spoken movie in MC, perhaps West Side Story because Ossie loved show tunes?

October 1, 10:31 hours. To phone number 15-69-87. A man outside
(MO) calls the Soviet Military Attaché Office speaking in broken Russian.
MO: "Hello, I was at your place last Saturday and talked to your
Consul. They said they'd send a telegram to Washington and I wanted to ask
you if there is anything new.
SOVIET: I'd like to ask you to call another phone number.
MO: Please.
SOVIET: Please write it down; 15-60-55 and ask for a Consul.
MO: Thank you.
SOVIET: Please"
 Page 44. October 1, 10:35 hours. To phone number 15-60-55. A man [MO]
described by the translator as the same person who had called a day or so
ago and spoken in broken Russian, called the Soviet Embassy Consulate
and spoke with the Soviet guard on duty:
MO: Hello, this LEE OSWALD speaking. I was at your place last
Saturday and spoke to a Consul, and they say that they'd send a telegram
to Washington, so I wanted to find out if you have anything new? But I don't
remember the name of that Consul."

This would be the scribbles in the tv guide. Or so we are led to believe.
As Greg and Bill Kelly have noted,

Australian researcher Greg Parker however, noticed a similar name in Priscialla Johnson McMcillan's book Lee & Marina (p. 68), in which she notes, on October 31, 1959, former U.S. Marine Corps defector Lee Harvey Oswald left the Hotel Metropole in Moscow and took a taxi to the American Embassy. There he told a receptionist he wanted to "dissolve his citizenship."

In the office of U.S. consul Richard E. Snyder, Oswald "slapped his passport down on Snyder's desk and demanded to take the oath renouncing his American citizenship that very moment. And he handed Snyder a letter formally requesting that his American citizenship be revoked and affirming his allegiance to the U.S.S.R. He added that he had been a radar technician in the Marine Corps and would make available to the Soviet government such knowledge as he had acquired."

According to PJM, "Richard Snyder was in a dilemma, for Lee Oswald appeared to be sane and he was within his own rights . . . glancing at Oswald's passport and noting that he was still a minor, the boy ought to have time to think it over . . . The exchange lasted less than an hour, but it had so nasty a tone that it was remembered long afterward by three Americans, besides Snyder and Oswald, who were present during parts of it -- John McVicker, the vice-consul, Marie Cheatham, the receptionist, and Edward L. Keenan, a graduate exchange student down for the weekend from Leningrad."

Could "Edward L. Keenan," the graduate exchange student in Leningrad and Moscow be the mysterious, "unknown American" Philadelphia Quaker student who also rode Oswald around Mexico City on the back of his motorcycle in the fall of 1963?

Parker took his hunch to the internet and came up with one Edward L. Keenan, professor of linguistics at the Univeristy of the City of Los Angeles (UCLA), whose Curricululm Vitae includes a BA degree in Philosophy and Religion from Swathmore College in Philadelpia in 1959 and the Sorbonne (1962), as well as work as an "Escort Interprter" (French-English) for the U.S. Department of State in 1962-64 (summers).

A Quaker student from Philadelphia named Edward L. Keenan! (aka Steve)

Therefore we have an apparatus with Ruth in the middle which can have sightings of 'Oswald' created for various purposes and situations, bus tickets from 'Oswald' turn up, and notes in Mexican TV guide of 'Oswald' produced at will.
Naushon island, the Quakers, The Friends, Antioch, AID,...Ruth has her hand in it all.
Along with George de Mohrenschildt, they would have connections to all the major players in the case, much like a left and a right hand.

The Mexico City trip story is equal to the second floor lunchroom story. Neither hold water when poked at.

Michael Ralph Paine,

He attended an interesting school as a youngster. Horace Mann Lincoln

"Its predecessor was founded as Lincoln School in 1917 by the Rockefeller-funded General Education Board as "a pioneer experimental school for newer educational methods," under the aegis of Columbia University's Teachers College. In 1941 Teachers College merged Lincoln School with Horace Mann School, which it operated as a demonstration school."
He does not show up in the Mannikin the school yearbook associated with the Horace Mann High school New York but in the Fare Forward his senior 1947 yearbook.

And an odd coincidence is,

"An old school, founded by Horace Mann, Antioch went co-ed, did away with grades and developed work-study programs decades before such things became popular.

When Ruth Paine was working with Quakers in Nicaragua in the 1980s, she traveled and attended Quaker meetings with a student or someone affiliated with Antioch, who made others suspicious of them (for keeping notes and taking names), so she maintained her college connections."

Edited by Ed LeDoux
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Greg, I was curious about what you said about the Neely home and did some digging for more info. I found a 2011 thread and a 2013 one. You and Richard Gilbride were bouncing ideas off one another. I'm curious what your current thinking is on the following:

1. The use of 36 kW (if I recall correctly) of electrical power at the Neely property in March 1963. Apparently not billed to Oswald. Off the cuff I'd say it was for safe house usage and being billed to the owner of the property, Mr. George, who is a supicious character given his apparent use of an alias (different set of initials). What do you think?

2. Gordon Wayne Smith, who told Richard Gilbride he had seen Oswald and Marina at the Neely house a number of times. What do you think of that?

3. According to Gale Nix Jackson: George B. Gray and his wife "Clydie" were the Oswalds' downstairs neighbors. Clydie saw Oswald many times, and saw Marina walking the baby in front of the house. Unfortunately Gale's reference for that info links to somebody's PC hard drive, presumably her own (drive C:). I don't believe the Grays were questioned by any authority.

Gayle, I think may have got herself confused. The Grays (also listed as Brays) never mentioned seeing her walking the baby. That was Wayne Smith in his chat with RG. The Grays WERE interviewed. But under the name of BRAY.

It looks like you misremembered, Greg. Ed LeDoux said the following in 2011:

I called Clydie Gray, she is elderly and hard of hearing.

She said she worked at Akers(?) Department store,

and George B Gray worked for the city as a Garbage man.

Doesn't remember the owner of the apts.

Didn't recall which church she was attending while at Neely.

She remembered the Oswald's living upstairs.

Marina used to walk the baby in front of her outside.

She saw Lee many times.

They were not friendly with them.

She did not want to talk much longer and had to hang up...


If what Clydie says is true, that blows your perfect record of nobody seeing the Oswalds at Neely. (Other than the Paines and De Mohrenschildt.)

Do you see or know a problem with what Clydie says?

(BTW, I'm not trying to prove you wrong. I just want to see how good your case is.)

Edited by Sandy Larsen
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