The Real Ruth and Michael Paine

[Greg Parker]

Jenner was suspicious - as he should have been.

Mrs. PAINE - I believe so. I might say that my awareness of his subscribing to these last two, the Militant and the Worker, came after the assassination. There was mail awaiting for him for that weekend which he did not pick up on the 21st, and after the assassination, indeed, after Saturday evening, the 23d, when it was announced on television that they had a photograph of Lee Oswald holding two papers. I looked at this pile of mail waiting for him which consisted of these two newspapers, the Militant and the Worker, and I threw them away.

What absolute tripe. She is saying here that she checked his mail after hearing about the BYP and no doubt, the two papers he was holding. Why? She also said that he had not received them there before and did not know about them at all until she did check. Was she acting on the advice of a psychic?

<snip>

Oswald took out a PO box in Dallas on Nov 1. If he was using that for the commie papers, Ruth should have been receiving all of them during October, but none after that. In fact the Warren Report actually states he used his PO boxes specifically for the receipt of his commie papers.

Here is what this is really all about. Her story that she tossed them out because she "wanted to be rid of them" was no lie. She got rid of them because these were the papers that were used to made the phony BYP's. They were not Oswald's at all.

You're mistaken, Greg. A lot of folks don't know that when LHO came back to Dallas on October 7th, he began sending his subscriptions to magazines to Ruth Paine's address in Irving.

The DPD and FBI made a full inventory of magazines delivered to Ruth's Irving address, and found a lot:

For example, This is found in Ruth Paine's WC testimony at 2pm, Friday 20 March 1964, in volume 3, starting on page 94 of the WC volumes. Here's my summary:

Mrs. PAINE: Lee Oswald subscribed to many newspapers. Many came to my house. They typically sat around the house until the weekend when Lee arrived.

(1) One paper Marina told me was from Minsk, in Russian. I glanced at it out of idle curiosity if nothing else. It was a newspaper as Russians understand newspapers, which makes it a borderline political tract.

(2) There was also a Russian magazine, small, Reader’s Digest size, called the Agitator, the name written in Russian. The entire document was in Russian. My curiosity or intellectual interest never went beyond reading the cover into reading any portion of one of the issues. But I do recall definitely the title page.

(3) There was also Crocodile, which is a Russian satirical humor magazine, also in Russian. I did read it and to observe Russian humor. Being satirical, of course, it made political reference but it was not particularly political in nature.

(4) There was also the Russian magazine Ogonok; it means “bonfire” or “fire” in Russian. It was also printed in Russian. I did read a portion of some of those issues. It was not political. It was a narrative magazine; special articles of interest to the general population.

(5) Lee also subscribed to Time magazine here in America. When he come out on weekends he read that first. My impression is that he took the issue away with him when he left every week.

(6) Lee also subscribed to The Militant, in English, which I’m told published by the Socialist Worker’s Party. I didn’t read it.

(7) Lee also subscribed to The Worker, which I’ve been told is the publication of the Communist Party USA.

So, you see, Greg, Ruth knew a lot about LHO's Russian reading material -- at her own address. Ruth didn't lie about it.

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

What don't you understand about this?

Mrs. PAINE - I believe so. I might say that my awareness of his subscribing to these last two, the Militant and the Worker, came after the assassination

and this

Mr. JENNER - When did the other papers begin to arrive? Did I interrupt you before you had a chance to complete your answer to my question?

Mrs. PAINE - No.

Mr. JENNER - The papers different from the Worker and the Militant, when did they begin to arrive at your home?

Mrs. PAINE - Well, they began to arrive, I would say, some time after October 4th. That is, of course, my judgment. That is a rationalization.

Her claim is that the weekend of the assassination was the FIRST time the two commie papers were delivered to her address. Does she tell the cops? No. Does she tell the FBI? No. She gets rid of possible evidence in the biggest case of the century. She was NOT that stupid. She got rid of them because of what SHE and/or her cohorts did with them - used them to help frame Oswald using the only REAL photo - the one that was destroyed by Marina and taking in Mink about 18 months earlier - as the template for far more incriminating versions.

A lot has been said about why two papers from parties that hated each other were used.

Now you know. It was the Paines admitted pig-ignorance about the two groups that caused that snafu.

[Paul Trejo]

You're mistaken in your interpretation, Greg, because you're missing the rest of Ruth Paine's testimony. Here's my summary:

----------- BEGIN SUMMARY OF RUTH PAINE WC TESTIMONY Fri20Mar1964 -------------------------

Mrs. PAINE: Marina enjoyed reading Ogonok, but she said she disliked the Agitator. Marina interpreted some of the things in Crocodile for me which I had difficulty understanding. I might say that my awareness of Lee’s subscribing to these last two, the Militant and the Worker, came after the assassination.

There was mail awaiting for him for that weekend which he did not pick up on the 21^st, and after the assassination, indeed, after Saturday evening, the 23^rd, when it was announced on television that they had a photograph of Lee Oswald holding two papers. I looked at this pile of mail waiting for him which consisted of these two newspapers, the Militant and the Worker, and I threw them away without opening them. They depressed me.

I didn’t call them in to the FBI, because I'm sure they knew, because mail stopped coming on the spot, nothing came after the assassination, I was certain it was still coming to some FBI place.

But this was almost instantaneously after I heard a broadcast that a photograph of him had been found in which he had been holding up the Militant. I immediately went to see if he had that mail and there was a copy of the Militant and I threw it away. I didn’t report it to the FBI.

The papers began to arrive I would say, sometime after October 4th. These magazines and newspapers I have recounted first appeared at my home after Lee Oswald came to Dallas and lived in Dallas, but he used my mailing address. Lee never asked to, and I never complained, but I noticed, of course, that Lee was using my home as a mailing address. Prior to the time that Lee arrived at my home on or about or on the 4th of October 1963, none of these newspapers or periodicals had come to my home.

----------- END SUMMARY OF RUTH PAINE WC TESTIMONY Fri20Mar1964 -------------------------

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

Edited January 4, 2016 by Paul Trejo

[Greg Parker]

You're mistaken in your interpretation, Greg, because you're missing the rest of Ruth Paine's testimony. Here's my summary:

----------- BEGIN SUMMARY OF RUTH PAINE WC TESTIMONY Fri20Mar1964 -------------------------

Mrs. PAINE: Marina enjoyed reading Ogonok, but she said she disliked the Agitator. Marina interpreted some of the things in Crocodile for me which I had difficulty understanding. I might say that my awareness of Lee’s subscribing to these last two, the Militant and the Worker, came after the assassination.

There was mail awaiting for him for that weekend which he did not pick up on the 21^st, and after the assassination, indeed, after Saturday evening, the 23^rd, when it was announced on television that they had a photograph of Lee Oswald holding two papers. I looked at this pile of mail waiting for him which consisted of these two newspapers, the Militant and the Worker, and I threw them away without opening them. They depressed me.

I didn’t call them in to the FBI, because I'm sure they knew, because mail stopped coming on the spot, nothing came after the assassination, I was certain it was still coming to some FBI place.

But this was almost instantaneously after I heard a broadcast that a photograph of him had been found in which he had been holding up the Militant. I immediately went to see if he had that mail and there was a copy of the Militant and I threw it away. I didn’t report it to the FBI.

The papers began to arrive I would say, sometime after October 4th. These magazines and newspapers I have recounted first appeared at my home after Lee Oswald came to Dallas and lived in Dallas, but he used my mailing address. Lee never asked to, and I never complained, but I noticed, of course, that Lee was using my home as a mailing address. Prior to the time that Lee arrived at my home on or about or on the 4th of October 1963, none of these newspapers or periodicals had come to my home.

----------- END SUMMARY OF RUTH PAINE WC TESTIMONY Fri20Mar1964 -------------------------

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

You are without doubt the Pugsliest poster on the planet.

You have simply taken her statements out of the context of the questions.

Let's see where your abortion of an argument works in something I like to call "reality".

According to you, Oswald was getting the Worker and the Militant, along with all those other publications delivered to the Paines from early October. Yet Ruth was only aware of all of the others and did not know about the Militant and the Worker until Saturday the 23rd of Nov at which time, those two publications were the ONLY mail there for Oswald to pick up.

You're a joke and she must have fire retardant pants.

Edited January 4, 2016 by Greg Parker

[James DiEugenio]

Greg:

You said the Paines did have a darkroom for sure?

[Greg Parker]

I think Mike used a partitioned area in the infamous garage.

I'll try and find the reference.

[Greg Parker]

I think Mike used a partitioned area in the infamous garage.

I'll try and find the reference.

It may be I got the idea off an old CH article where she hinted at such a thing, though my memory is of reading it in either testimony or in a DPD or FBI report. No luck in finding it though.

[Gene Kelly]

"I was pleased to throw away anything I could ... I just didn't want it".

Ruth's explanation for these two particularly auspicious magazines (i.e. timing of the mail, first-time mailings, awareness after the assassination, not reporting them to the FBI or authorities, and then discarding them) does not pass a red-faced test (pun intended).

[James DiEugenio]

Gene:

Are you accusing that fine, upright, and kindly Quaker woman of, ly---well, being less than candid?

[Greg Parker]

"I was pleased to throw away anything I could ... I just didn't want it".

Ruth's explanation for these two particularly auspicious magazines (i.e. timing of the mail, first-time mailings, awareness after the assassination, not reporting them to the FBI or authorities, and then discarding them) does not pass a red-faced test (pun intended).

Gene:

Are you accusing that fine, upright, and kindly Quaker woman of, ly---well, being less than candid?

I've done some more digging.

Check out p 19 here . Informant (almost certainly Harry Holmes) questioned postal employees about box 6225 Oswald rented from Nov 1. Only one could recall ever placing any mail in that box for Oswald - Russian newspapers - although he was not claiming 100% certainty. These of course, could not have been the Worker or the Militant which were in English. The informant (again probably Holmes) stated that in his opinion, no mail had ever been placed in the box because of the amount of undisturbed dust present.

Where does this leave us?

Is there any proof that Oswald actually did subscribe to the Worker and to the Militant? If such proof exists then the papers must have been sent to the Paines or elsewhere - and if to the Paines, then Ruth would have known about him getting them long before Nov 23.

Unless someone knows of solid evidence of his subscriptions, I would have grave doubts that Oswald was a subscriber to either... which in turn would reinforce my earlier suggestion that the two papers tossed out by Ruth were ones obtained by her, Mike or some associate in order to manufacture the fake BYPs.

[Greg Parker]

Here is the Carol Hewett quote which may have been what I was thinking of regarding Mike Paine having a "dark room" in the garage.

"While present in the home on January 31st, Odum took the opportunity to ask Michael Paine about the “No Admittance” sign found in his garage by the Dallas police the weekend of the assassination. Paine denied having any knowledge of it.26 This sign is identified in the joint DPD/FBI inventory as Item #107.27 Might such a sign be used by someone developing film in a dark room? Did Michael Paine have dark room skills?" [emphasis added]

[James DiEugenio]

Nice one Greg.

[Paul Trejo]

Actually, anybody who has been to the Paine house in Irving Texas sees what a small house it is. It has a one-car garage, and it was full of laundry machines and areas, drills, saws and other building equipment, but mostly the bulk of worldly possessions of the Oswalds.

There are photographs of the Paines garage following the JFK murder. There are also detailed descriptions of every item in the Paines garage by WC counsel Jenner, who flew to Texas with an aide to literally MEASURE the objects in the garage -- length width and depth. This wastes a lot of WC pages and time -- but that's what he did.

No room for a dark room, sorry. Also, no mention of anything like it from the DPD inventory list. You guys are MAKING STUFF UP.

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

Edited January 5, 2016 by Paul Trejo

[Greg Parker]

Here is the basement where a famous photographer did his processing

Can you see a dark room there?

[James DiEugenio]

I used to have a dark room in the basement of my house.

This was back in the seventies, when still photography was in vogue.

The idea that a dark room has to take a lot of space is ridiculous. Not the case at all.

I operated my dark room in a space of about 5 by 5, maybe 6 by 6. And I developed literally hundreds of pictures.

It was not at all a difficult process. Nor did it consume a lot of space.

Edited January 5, 2016 by James DiEugenio

[Greg Parker]

Here is the basement where a famous photographer did his processing

Can you see a dark room there?

Looks a bit like someone's cluttered garage to me... someone who was a real "hands-on" type guy. The WC claimed that the negatives had been privately processed then printed by a professional photo service.

So all that was needed were some trays and the right processing solutions.