Challenge for Thomas Graves

[Thomas Graves]

"Robert Prudhomme, on 11 Jan 2016 - 1:23 PM, said:

I almost hate to bring this up, as you folks are having so much fun but, did you know that the weapon depicted in the 36" ad and the 40" ad is the same rifle, and that it is neither a carbine or a short rifle?

Notice, too, that a "turned down bolt" is advertised in both, yet both rifles show a straight bolt handle.

Dear Robert,

Thanks for pointing that out.

So Kleins would have been even more justified, at least in their own minds, in sending a customer the 40.2" model instead of the 36" model, especially if they were out of the 36" ones.

--Tommy

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Perhaps, then, you would be so good as to explain this response to my post and, if it was not related to my post, just how you arrived at this conclusion.

Dear Robert,

Don't get all paranoid on me again.

The purpose for my post was twofold:

1 ) To thank you for pointing out that the photos in the Kleins ad were inaccurately-labeled and therefore misleading.

2 ) To offer my own opinion as to how Kleins could have used this kind of deceptive advertising to their advantage when sending someone a carbine / short rifle / rifle that they hadn't specifically ordered.

IMHO, you give yourself way too much credit for what I say and do.

--Tommy

[Tom Neal]

If Kleins was out of 36" carbines,

The rifle purchase has been thoroughly explored. There is no evidence that Kleins was out of 36" carbines.

it was better business practice, for their own profit and customer-satisfaction wise, for them to send Hidell, or whomever, a 40.2" rifle rather than nothing at all.

The above is your personal opinion. Whose [sic] to say Kleins would agree with you?

Also, a Carbine was ordered, not a standard length rifle. You are presuming that a longer rifle would be as good or better for the purchaser. Would a business assume this? Perhaps someone who ORDERS a carbine WANTS a carbine, or they would have ordered a standard length. They run the risk of paying return postage if the customer is not satisfied. In what way is this better for Klein's profit and customer satisfaction?

Dear Tom,

You're absolutely right. A mail order customer would likely have been unhappy to receive a presumably longer-range and more accurate 40.2" rifle instead of a 36" carbine, so Kleins would have been very silly to send him one if they were out of carbines, wouldn't they.

First you state that you agree, then in the same sentence (sarcastically) state evidence that contradicts your original agreement. i.e. why would someone not want a "better" rifle. You fail to counter my argument that what you personally consider "better" is not what the customer considered "better" based upon the model he ordered.

When you have no counter-argument, sarcasm is a lame substitute for admitting you are wrong...

Tom

[Thomas Graves]

The above is your personal opinion. Whose [sic] to say Kleins would agree with you?

Also, a Carbine was ordered, not a standard length rifle. You are presuming that a longer rifle would be as good or better for the purchaser. Would a business assume this? Perhaps someone who ORDERS a carbine WANTS a carbine, or they would have ordered a standard length. They run the risk of paying return postage if the customer is not satisfied. In what way is this better for Klein's profit and customer satisfaction?

Dear Tom,

You're absolutely right. A mail order customer would likely have been unhappy to receive a presumably longer-range and more accurate 40.2" rifle instead of a 36" carbine, so Kleins would have been very silly to send him one if they were out of carbines, wouldn't they.

First you state that you agree, then in the same sentence (sarcastically) state evidence that contradicts your original agreement. i.e. why would someone not want a "better" rifle. You fail to counter my argument that what you personally consider "better" is not what the customer considered "better" based upon the model he ordered.

When you have no counter-argument, sarcasm is a lame substitute for admitting you are wrong...

Tom

No, Tom.

It's just my way of being ........ sarcastic. You've probably noticed that I'm the only person who is like that here. From time to time. Oops, there I go again.

Could you please answer this question for me: Why wouldn't most customers accept the presumably farther-shooting, more accurate "long arm" instead of having to go to the trouble of returning it and waiting for their first choice or a refund to arrive?

--Tommy

Edited January 11, 2016 by Thomas Graves

[Tom Neal]

No, I did not say that at all, and I sincerely wish you would lose this annoying habit you have of reading more into what people say than what is there.

Robert,

If he doesn't *intentionally* misinterpret, or completely ignore what others say, then he would have to admit he's wrong. In this case he is attempting to use your information to justify the statement he made BEFORE he learned this new information. Even if this new info was germane (and I agree with you, it is not) he was unaware of it when he made his statement, so either way it fails to justify his stance AT THAT TIME.

Tom

[James DiEugenio]

RP: I almost hate to bring this up, as you folks are having so much fun but, did you know that the weapon depicted in the 36" ad and the 40" ad is the same rifle, and that it is neither a carbine or a short rifle?

Notice, too, that a "turned down bolt" is advertised in both, yet both rifles show a straight bolt handle.

I was going to say this later after I looked it up, but Bob didn't have to look it up..

Nice one Bob.

And BTW, I figured Lance would start calling us crazy, sooner rather than later.

Edited January 11, 2016 by James DiEugenio

[Tom Neal]

It's just my way of being ........ sarcastic. You've probably noticed that I'm the only person who is like that here.

And like you, others do it when they can't counter a factual argument.

Can you answer this question: Why wouldn't most customers accept the presumably farther-shooting, more accurate "long arm" instead of having to go to the trouble of returning it and waiting for their first choice or a refund to arrive?

I've already answered it, but you keep substituting your personal opinions for what others are ACTUALLY thinking. Can you provide proof that you know what someone else is thinking, BETTER then they do? Until you do your arguments and sarcasm are totally and completely irrelevant.

Tom

[Thomas Graves]

It's just my way of being ........ sarcastic. You've probably noticed that I'm the only person who is like that here.

And like you, others do it when they can't counter a factual argument.

Can you answer this question: Why wouldn't most customers accept the presumably farther-shooting, more accurate "long arm" instead of having to go to the trouble of returning it and waiting for their first choice or a refund to arrive?

I've already answered it, but you keep substituting your personal opinions for what others are ACTUALLY thinking. Can you provide proof that you know what someone else is thinking, BETTER then they do? Until you do your arguments and sarcasm are totally and completely irrelevant.

Tom

Dear Tom,

Whose "actual thoughts" are you referring to right now? Robert Prudhomme's? Yours? Klein's? A hypothetical customer of Kleins?

All of the above?

Please specify.

--Tommy

Edited January 11, 2016 by Thomas Graves

[Tom Neal]

Whose "actual thoughts" are you referring to right now? Robert Prudhomme's? Yours? Klein's? A hypothetical customer of Kleins?

If you have to ask then you haven't read the posts. Or equally likely you simply ignore the parts that contradict your opinions.

Tom

Edited January 11, 2016 by Tom Neal

[Thomas Graves]

Whose "actual thoughts" are you referring to right now? Robert Prudhomme's? Yours? Klein's? A hypothetical customer of Kleins?

If you have to ask then you haven't read the posts.

Tom

Dear Tom,

I've already read all of them, Tom.

Which posts are you referring to regarding my alleged replacing the actual thoughts of other people with my own opinions?

I am willing to read them again...

Thanks,

--Tommy

Edited January 11, 2016 by Thomas Graves

[Tom Neal]

This is a blog post that will appear in March on a Christian blog I write.

Why do you find it necessary to state that the post will be on a "Christian" blog - why not say "blog"? Is a "Christian" blog somehow different than a "blog"?

Tom

[Robert Prudhomme]

RP: I almost hate to bring this up, as you folks are having so much fun but, did you know that the weapon depicted in the 36" ad and the 40" ad is the same rifle, and that it is neither a carbine or a short rifle?

Notice, too, that a "turned down bolt" is advertised in both, yet both rifles show a straight bolt handle.

I was going to say this later after I looked it up, but Bob didn't have to look it up..

Nice one Bob.

And BTW, I figured Lance would start calling us crazy, sooner rather than later.

Thanks, Jim. I was hoping someone would express interest in exactly what model of Carcano is pictured in the ads. It's really quite an interesting story.

[Tom Neal]

I've already read all of them, Tom. Which posts are you referring to regarding my alleged replacing the actual thoughts of other people with my own opinions?

I am willing to read them again...

If you actually have read the messages and still don't have the answer to your question then it is pointless to reiterate. Having read your recent responses to Jim D., Sandy, Robert, and me, I can only conclude that you are incapable of accepting input contrary to your own, regardless of its merit.

Tom

[Thomas Graves]

I've already read all of them, Tom. Which posts are you referring to regarding my alleged replacing the actual thoughts of other people with my own opinions?

I am willing to read them again...

If you actually have read the messages and still don't have the answer to your question then it is pointless to reiterate. Having read your recent responses to Jim D., Sandy, Robert, and me, I can only conclude that you are incapable of accepting input contrary to your own, regardless of its merit.

Tom

Dear Tom,

If that's the case, then I must fit in very well here indeed.

--Tommy

Edited January 12, 2016 by Thomas Graves

[Tom Neal]

If that's the case, then I must fit in very well here indeed.

No one else here accuses people of being "paranoid" simply because they disagree with you. And those that you accuse are among the many who gladly accept new information without sarcasm, condescension, or accusations of mental illness.

[Tom Neal]

Also, I agree with Tom (and now Tommy) that if somebody orders a carbine, that is probably what they wanted. Not a regular rifle. So Klein's wouldn't have even considered substituting a rifle.

EDIT: Added Tommy to whom I am agreeing with.

Sandy,

Tommy is NOT agreeing with you. He is being sarcastic. See his later responses...

Tom