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PRAYER PERSON - PRAYER MAN OR PRAYER WOMAN? RESEARCH THREAD


Guest Duncan MacRae

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3 hours ago, Andrej Stancak said:

Andrew and Ian:

would it be possible to draw a contour around the alleged woman's body? The shape on the step indeed makes an impression of a human leg. However, where is a leg there is also a trunk, and where is a trunk there is also a neck and head. I just struggle to identify the contours of this alleged woman. I would therefore appreciate demonstrating to the community the contour of the alleged woman since maybe I am not the only one who fails to see the head under Prayer Man's arms. Would not this women be some kind of a giant?

I could probably have a go at drawing a contour around the alleged woman's body, but really it would just be a total guess..

I can just about convince myself in seeing a head under Prayer Man's arms, but it still doesn't make sense to me because I can't convince myself why that part of her would be in 'darkness' - the person on the left hand side (as we look at it) nearest the wall whose head is well illuminated is either standing on the same step or one above and the woman to the right (as we look at it) standing nearest the hand rail is standing two (?) steps up and she is well illuminated also. Surely then the body that belongs to the 'foot' should also be illuminated more than it appears she is...

... that's on the assumption she is standing up and not either bending over or leaning over at a extreme angle.

*To be honest, I don't really like that individual image... I need to test something first before I say why. ;)

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42 minutes ago, Sandy Larsen said:

 

A fairly comparable comparison with Prayer Man (in terms of perspective) is the guy standing to our right of Frazier, wearing light colored clothing.

On him Bill's white line just extends to the corners of his shoulders. Not so on PM. The left end of the line (our left) reaches out the the PM's elbow. And PM's elbow is extended away from his body.

The white line on Prayer-Man was meant to be placed on the outer edge of the right arm to the outer edge of the left arm.  Prayer-Man is not square with the camera, thus he or she is even wider than seen in this image.

The image is so poor that some cannot even tell if Prayer-Man is a man or a woman, so to say that someone can tell that his or her elbow is extended away from the body is merely a self-serving wild guess in my view..

Edited by Bill Miller
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10 minutes ago, Bill Miller said:

The image is so poor that some cannot even tell if Prayer-Man is a man or a woman, so to say that someone can tell that his or her elbow is extended away from the body is merely a self-serving wild guess in my view..


Raise your arms up the way PM's clearly are and see if your elbows remain up close to your body. (Do so naturally without trying to force your elbows to remain close to your body.)

Now tell me whose claim was the self-serving one.

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22 minutes ago, Sandy Larsen said:


Raise your arms up the way PM's clearly are and see if your elbows remain up close to your body. (Do so naturally without trying to force your elbows to remain close to your body.)

Now tell me whose claim was the self-serving one.

 

I did and they do. My arms stayed right against my body. None of which is meaningful. What is meaningful is the way Prayer-Man is turned slightly to one side. Do you agree that if he turned so to be square on  with the camera, then would not his girth widen even more? 

And by the way - isn't the man next to Frazier supposed to be Molina??

girth copy_invert 2.jpg

Edited by Bill Miller
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5 hours ago, Andrej Stancak said:

would it be possible to draw a contour around the alleged woman's body?

 

To me it looks as if the person with the foot is standing sideways (facing towards the left as we see it). With that in mind I knocked up the following to help explain what I am seeing. I still can't spot her head though!

headless woman.JPG

If she was facing sideways then I feel that at least part of her face would be visible (as she has to be standing in an are that the sun would be hitting). The only thing I can think of just now then is that even though she is standing sideways her head is turned more to the back and he black hair is lost amongst the darkness of Prayer Man's torso.

Alternatively - there is NO woman there and the 'foot' isn't a foot, it's the sun hitting the steps. Have a look at the gif posted above and watch the 'woman in white' climb the stairs and watch the 'shadow' on the steps.... ;)

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25 minutes ago, Alistair Briggs said:

Prayermangif3.gif

 

 


The woman seemingly dressed in all white does appear to walk up the steps like there is no person in front of her.

Now that I've looked at a number of versions of this clip, it looks to me like the blackness in front of PM is just darkness from the shade.

But I don't see the "girth" in PM that others here say they see.

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8 minutes ago, Alistair Briggs said:

 

To me it looks as if the person with the foot is standing sideways (facing towards the left as we see it). With that in mind I knocked up the following to help explain what I am seeing. I still can't spot her head though!

headless woman.JPG

If she was facing sideways then I feel that at least part of her face would be visible (as she has to be standing in an are that the sun would be hitting). The only thing I can think of just now then is that even though she is standing sideways her head is turned more to the back and he black hair is lost amongst the darkness of Prayer Man's torso.

Alternatively - there is NO woman there and the 'foot' isn't a foot, it's the sun hitting the steps. Have a look at the gif posted above and watch the 'woman in white' climb the stairs and watch the 'shadow' on the steps.... ;)

Alistair,

 

The animation shows the woman in the light colored coat below this person as moving up the stairs. I think your outline is of that woman's right side as she too was moving up the stairs.

Edited by Bill Miller
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5 minutes ago, Alistair Briggs said:

 

To me it looks as if the person with the foot is standing sideways (facing towards the left as we see it). With that in mind I knocked up the following to help explain what I am seeing. I still can't spot her head though!

headless woman.JPG

If she was facing sideways then I feel that at least part of her face would be visible (as she has to be standing in an are that the sun would be hitting). The only thing I can think of just now then is that even though she is standing sideways her head is turned more to the back and he black hair is lost amongst the darkness of Prayer Man's torso.

Alternatively - there is NO woman there and the 'foot' isn't a foot, it's the sun hitting the steps. Have a look at the gif posted above and watch the 'woman in white' climb the stairs and watch the 'shadow' on the steps.... ;)


Oh, okay. Standing sideways. That does indeed look like a leg and foot. I'll look again at the various versions and see if I can make her out.

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5 hours ago, Ian Lloyd said:

Hi Andrej,

Unfortunately, I don't have the software or capabilities to do that!!! I'm quite sure that Robin and/or others have already done it in the past - maybe an internet search might bring something up or, hopefully, Robin will visit and see this and provide more information.

Nor do I. I believe I have seen it done in the past. Can't imagine it not being on this site, or perhaps ROKC.

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If someone can slow the animation down - I think what is said to be a leg is sunlight shining between the shadows being cast by the woman moving upo the stairs. The first two or so frames is the key here in my view.

 

Prayermangif3.gif

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2 minutes ago, Sandy Larsen said:


The woman seemingly dressed in all white does appear to walk up the steps like there is no person in front of her.

That is what it looks like to me too...

2 minutes ago, Bill Miller said:

The animation shows the wman below this person as moving up the stairs. I think your outline is of that woman's right side as she too was moving up the stairs.

In a previous comment I have drawn an outline of what I can imagine as being a woman on the steps and that being her foot... however, what if the foot isn't a foot at all and it is actually just the sunlight hitting the steps...

sunlight hitting the steps.JPG

(apologies for the crudeness of my drawing line skills. lol)

I also took one of the other frames from the clip that the image is taken from,

no foot no woman.JPG

Notice how the shadows are cast on the steps there? And notice how there is no 'foot' visible. (This frame is before the foot appears). Watch the gif I posted above carefully and keep an eye on the shadows cast on the steps... to me it very much looks like the 'foot' isn't a foot it's the sunlight hitting the stairs (lack of shadow) caused by the 'woman in white' ascending the stairs.

No foot = no woman.

Just noticed Bill's comment as I was typing the stuff above...

9 minutes ago, Bill Miller said:

If someone can slow the animation down - I think what is said to be a leg is sunlight shining between the shadows being cast by the woman moving upo the stairs. The first two or so frames is the key here in my view.

*I will certainly try and slow the animation down a bit to see if it helps.

The 'screenshot' frame I have posted just above I think could be 'key' in showing that it is sunlight shining between the shoulders.

 

 

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*It has previously been argued by some that  Prayer Man can't be Oswald because his 'girth' looks to be too big to be him. The counter argument was that the look of the 'girth' could be explained because it was partially the 'woman on the stairs' whose foot can be seen... No foot = no woman = Prayer Man's 'girth' is all his!...

Whilst some may say that if all the 'girth' is Prayer Man's alone then that excludes it from being Oswald because Oswald didn't have that 'girth', personally I don't see it that way at all...

Sandy earlier said;

55 minutes ago, Sandy Larsen said:

But I don't see the "girth" in PM that others here say they see.

I too don't see the 'girth' in PM that others here say they see...

... personally, that is to say, I don't think that if the 'girth' is all Prayer Man's that it any way excludes it being Oswald. ;)

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