DOES IT MATTER TODAY THAT JFK WAS KILLED?

[Martin Blank]

Nice one Martin.

thanks.

​more than anything else i think he was a visionary

[Martin Blank]

One last point, Kennedy's economic policies, as formulated through he and Walter Heller--who despised Milton Friedman--really worked. By 1963, the economy was humming along.

But once LBJ got in there and reversed Kennedy's Vietnam policy, he had a huge problem. He knew that America would not pay for that war, at least not completely. So he started printing money. As the war expanded, he printed even more.

This caused the terrible curse of stagflation, that is money losing value as the same time productivity is going down. It drove Nixon nuts and he made it even worse, with his price controls and his Israel policy which caused OPEC to jack up oil prices. It then had a large role in ruining Carter since Volcker decided to wring the inflation out of the economy with high interest rates.

Then Reagan and Bush came in, followed by Clinton, and globalization has now run rampant. To the point that its the opposite of what Kennedy wanted. Businesses get rewarded for going abroad and the middle class in America has been pretty much gutted. So, like his foreign policy, his economic policy was also turned around.

Yep, so I think Kennedy's murder matters today. Its a terrible country. I mean Trump is probably going to be our next president.

If my girlfriend had a passport, I would seriously think of moving to Costa Rica or the south of France.

i recommend battling wall street as well

Edited February 25, 2016 by Martin Blank

[James DiEugenio]

Battling Wall Street is a wonderful book.

It does a fine job on Kennedy's economic policies.

The other book I like on this subject is a review of Kennedy's domestic policies, Promises Kept by Irving Bernstein.

If you read those two, you will understand Kennedy's Keynesian economic strategies.

[Kirk Gallaway]

Paul,

I know little about Walker. I defer to your factual knowledge of him.

I do know something about army life, doctrine, and training.

When Walker was serving, the U.S. Army had three combat branches: armor, artillery, and infantry. I understand that Walker was an artillery-branch officer before he became a general officer. General officers as such belong to no branch. It's fair to say most general officers have a combat-arms background. It's also fair to that when Walker was serving, West Point graduates dominated the ranks of general officers.

I know something about West Point education. The basic education always has been in engineering. Physical training has been a big part of the education, as has been military history. West Point never has trained its cadets in political assassination. Period. Neither has the Army War College, which trains mid-level army officers.

To a large extent, army officers receive on-the-job training. Guaranteed there never has been OJT for political assassinations.

Finally, Paul, when Walker took the oath as a second lieutenant, he swore to protect and defend the U.S. Constitution. No army officer worth his or her weight has ever taken that oath lightly.

That oath, binding for life, would not have barred Walker from protesting at Ole Miss. It would have barred him from harming JFK.

All good points, Jon, but you left out a few vital facts about Edwin Walkers' special case:

(1) Although West Point never teaches assassination, this is no proof that motivated students would never research such a thing on their own.

(2) After Edwin Walker graduated from West Point, he quickly joined a "Special Forces" unit. I wonder if "Special Forces" in 1931 meant anything like "Special Forces" meant in 1971. If so, then pinpoint covert activities would not be out of the question.

(2.1) While I agree there has never been on-the-job training for political assassinations, ultimately it is a variety of covert operations, is it not? And these skills are taught somewhere, officially, are they not? Perhaps in "Special Forces?"

(3) General Walker, after 30 years of outstanding military service in two wars, resigned from the US Army in November 1961 -- he did not retire as he easily could have -- but he deliberately resigned, and deliberately forfeited his 30-year Army Pension.

(3.1) This made Edwin Walker the only US General to resign in the 20th century, forfeiting his Army Pension.

(3.2) When asked why he did this, Walker said, "It will be my purpose now, as a civilian, to attempt to do what I have found it no longer possible to do in uniform.”

(3.3) IMHO, this doesn't explain well enough the rash acting of forfeiting a lifetime service pension -- but that's what Walker did.

(3.4) There was something about the Uniform and the Army itself that had turned sour for Edwin Walker.

(3.5) What do you say now, Jon, as regards taking this oath seriously? Is it not really a case that Walker took his oath VERY seriously, so seriously that he would not violate his oath by keeping his Uniform and belonging to the John Birch Society?

(4.0) As a matter of fact, Edwin Walker submitted his resignation once before, under President Eisenhower in 1959. What happened in 1959? Two things:

(4.1) Walker read the Black Book (1959) by Robert Welch, which convinced its readers that President Eisenhower was in fact a Communist.

(4.2) This meant that the entire power structure of Washington DC was under the control of the Communists, including the Pentagon. So, to avoid this contagion, Edwin Walker resigned from the US Army.

(5.0) Ike denied the 1959 request. Instead, Ike promoted Walker to his new post in Germany

(5.1) While in Germany, Walker made lots of enemies, especially with the US Army's Overseas Weekly newspaper there.

(5.2) By 1961, the Overseas Weekly newspaper made Walker into headline news as a card-carrying member of the John Birch Society. This started a shore flap, and the JCS decided to remove Walker from his command.

(5.3) Long story short, Walker resigned in November 1961, and though JFK offered to keep Walker on in Hawaii, Walker submitted his resignation for the 2nd time, and JFK accepted it.

(5.5) So -- although Walker took his oath in 1931 when he joined the Army, he resigned from the Army, because of his newfound political beliefs that FDR, Truman, Eisenhower and JFK had all been Communists.

(5.6) Walker joined the Radical Right political cause in the USA -- all without his Army Pension. He got plenty of money, though, from H.L. Hunt and other wealthy backers, as Walker embarked on a political career, in which he would first run for Texas Governor.

(6.0) IMHO, the people who killed JFK didn't do it for money -- they did it because they TRULY in their heart of hearts, believed that JFK was a Communist, and therefore a Traitor, and therefore had to die for the good of the US Constitution.

Please read the October 1963 newspaper articles I posted above. They confirm the basics of what I'm saying here.

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

3) General Walker, after 30 years of outstanding military service in two wars, resigned from the US Army in November 1961 -- he did not retire as he easily could have -- but he deliberately resigned, and deliberately forfeited his 30-year Army Pension.

(3.1) This made Edwin Walker the only US General to resign in the 20th century, forfeiting his Army Pension.

(3.2) When asked why he did this, Walker said, "It will be my purpose now, as a civilian, to attempt to do what I have found it no longer possible to do in uniform.”

(3.3) IMHO, this doesn't explain well enough the rash acting of forfeiting a lifetime service pension -- but that's what Walker did.

(3.4) There was something about the Uniform and the Army itself that had turned sour for Edwin Walker.

(3.5) What do you say now, Jon, as regards taking this oath seriously? Is it not really a case that Walker took his oath VERY seriously, so seriously that he would not violate his oath by keeping his Uniform and belonging to the John Birch Society?2) This meant that the entire power structure of Washington DC was under the control of the Communists, including the Pentagon. So, to avoid this contagion, Edwin Walker resigned from the US Army.

(5.5) So -- although Walker took his oath in 1931 when he joined the Army, he resigned from the Army, because of his newfound political beliefs that FDR, Truman, Eisenhower and JFK had all been Communists.

(5.6) Walker joined the Radical Right political cause in the USA -- all without his Army Pension. He got plenty of money, though, from H.L. Hunt and other wealthy backers, as Walker embarked on a political career, in which he would first run for Texas Governor.

(6.0) IMHO, the people who killed JFK didn't do it for money -- they did it because they TRULY in their heart of hearts, believed that JFK was a Communist, and therefore a Traitor, and therefore had to die for the good of the US Constitution.

Whew! Paul, that's a powerful closing passage! I see in your mature years, you've at last found a hero, or maybe a. certain group from an era.

The only general in the 20th century to give up his pension?? That sounds well researched. True, How many of us, would give up our pensions?

To "do in civilian life, what was no longer possible to do in a uniform."!! Whoa!

But truly in their heart of hearts?? Wow, I bet nobody really appreciated them at the time either. Now that's courage.

I guess some fantasize being part of the March to Washington with Dr. King, some being with Nelson Mandela, Ghandi, and you have some perverse desire to be in that crowd and part oft that last flurry of the last days when white was right.

......Ok, I kinda get it.

[Ray Mitcham]

We can skip over that flapdoodle of course.

Another point that does not get accented enough is Kennedy's economic policies. I only touched on them above, and I would be wiling to wager that few people here have ever heard of James Saxon. Saxon gave an interview to US News and World Report in November of 1963--I think. It was quite interesting.

He talked about how he was trying to get banks to loosen credit standards for small businesses and consumers so more spending would take place. He also wanted states to charter more state banks so that control of those funds would be more local and less in New York City. A very interesting interview which someone sent me through BOR once. I hope some one can find it.

There was also his demand oriented tax cuts, which were mostly aimed toward the middle class and working class.

This the one, Jim?

https://archive.org/stream/InterviewWithJamesSaxonCurrencyComptrollerForPresidentKennedy/JamesSaxon-jfksMoneyComptroller_djvu.txt

[James DiEugenio]

Ray:

Yes that is it.

Everyone should read that.

Its the real deal about Kennedy vs the Federal Reserve and NYC.

[Jon G. Tidd]

The media did what it did on the fiftieth because the media barons know that to challenge the Warren Commission conclusions is to challenge the Department of Justice. It was the DOJ that was at the center of the cover-up and still is.

I'm rooting for Apple. Comey is a worthless human being, IMO; and I suspect the American public (minus BillGates) has the same basic view.

[James DiEugenio]

What did the DOJ have to do with the 50th anniversary?

The fiftieth anniversary orgy of protection for the WC was the media's way of covering their butts for how they actually took that pile of crapola the WR seriously without doing any due diligence on it before publishing it.

The most extreme example was the Dallas Power Elite led by the mayor and the newspaper and its parent company which, over a year in advance, took its lead from Gary Mack and the Sixth Floor to cordon off Dealey Plaza for a week. To make sure that the immense amount of media gathered there would not get to interview people like John Newman, Gary Aguilar, or Josiah Thompson. If that had happened, then for the first time in over a decade, our message would have gotten out to millions.

Instead, in what I consider a violation of the first amendment, the Sixth Floor along with the mayor, decided to physically shut off all access to Dealey Plaza. All except for a screening lottery that was actually supervised by Homeland Security. Only those people, plus selected luminaries, were allowed to be there. And they then made sure there would be no demonstrations on camera by blocking off all three entryways into the Plaza with over 200 off duty police; who were paid overtime to set up barriers with cars, patrolled by cops on horseback. I was there, so I know.

Nothing like that had ever happened before on any anniversary. And I know that for a fact. It was one of the most outrageous forfeitures of American rights I can recall: freedom of speech and the right to assemble. It really reminded me of Fascist Italy or Nazi Germany. And when they found a judge who backed up the fact that Dealey Plaza was largely a national monument that did not belong to the city, that local judge was removed from the bench so that no legal remedy could be enacted. It would have to have gone on appeal, which would have taken too long. Although if I had had the money, I would have financed the lawsuit myself. Just to prove the point.

So much for the DOJ and Comey.

That was a Power Elite operation all the way. An utter disgrace.

Edited February 26, 2016 by James DiEugenio

[Jon G. Tidd]

Jim,

I agree entirely that the 50th anniversary misdeeds in Dallas had nothing to do with the FBI or DOJ as a whole. The power elite in Dallas were and are perfectly capable of those misdeeds.

I interpreted your 50th anniversary comment as meaning the national information stage, over which the MSM presides.

As for Apple and Comey, I find it interesting that Apple's pleading invokes the First Amendment. The pleading claims the FBI is trying to compel "speech". I have no proof whatsoever the FBI has tried to compel or inhibit the speech of the MSM. Based on the magistrate's order against Apple and Comey's taking to the court of public opinion, however, I believe the FBI (i.e., the DOJ) feels confident based on institutional experience that it can trample constitutional rights, including especially First and Fourth Amendment rights.

[Roy Wieselquist]

Oh yes, it matters more than ever that President Kennedy was killed. We are controlled by the Radical Right, though most of us don't realize it, like frogs boiled slowly. And there are the masters, our overlords, who prefer it this way and aren't about to ring the clarion bell. We entered a slow-burning Dark Age at the end of 1963. Sort of analogous to the Cold War, not a totally hot conflagration, just a fitful, fits-and-starts descent into that movie, Idiocracy. But as Stan Ridgway sings in Another Lost Weekend, "Things could be worse."

To understand our current situation, it's necessary to go back, at least, to the First American Civil War. The year before Lincoln was murdered by a conspiracy (much bigger than the courts admitted), 1864, John Smith Dye [i had Joseph Dye Smith originally, sorry.] published a book titled In the Adders' Den (plus long sub-title). It's all about the American Slave Power (ASP). In it, JDS proves that the two previous presidents who died in office, W H Harrison and Zachary Taylor, were poisoned to death. It wasn't "pneumonia" and "cholera"; it was arsenic. Before the war, the South, aided by NY bankers and European aristocrats, prepared for war by transferring military weapons and ordnance to Southern control. There was the Missouri Compromise and the Compromise of 1850 (once they had bumped off Taylor, who said he would personally hang the governor of South Carolina if he lifted one finger to secede). Both of these "compromises" came about through Southern murder, intimidation and bribery. It is in their DNA to attempt to enslave; they despise, and are allergic to, honest labor, would rather kill/be killed than work for a living. Going forward from JDS, both Warren G. Harding (on his way to investigate the Teapot Dome Scandal -- the Southern military was again robbing the nation of the new gold, oil) and FDR (see Webster Tarpley) were poisoned to death, WGH quickly by Southern soldiers and FDR slowly by a female White Russian painter in the South.

As someone sent a warning letter to JFK, every president who was elected in a year ending in zero starting in 1840 -- every 20 years (plus WHH from 1848 who died 1850) -- left the White House NOT under his own power. It has to do with the decennial census and the quadrennial election which only falls on a Zero Year preceded by an even number, but that's another story.

The Southern military coup of 1963 was much more "successful" than the attempted coup of 1861; remember, as good ole Sam Grant noted in his Memoir, "the South was an armed camp" during the ACW. But THAT out-in-the-open rat's-nest was stomped enough to stop them from exporting their slavery disease. After the first Johnson, Andrew, there was not another president from a former slave-holding state until Harry Truman in 1945, followed by comatose slacker Ike, followed by a respite with JFK, then real Hell came to America with the ascendance of LBJ. As the best proof of America as a depository of morons, many best-selling historians contend that LBJ merely continued JFK's Vietnam policy, or at least "we can never know whether Kennedy woulda prosecuted the war as LBJ did." Right. Just like we'll never know if Jesus Christ, in his mid-30s, and the Apostles would not have turned to rolling old ladies for the odd denarius. And we'll never know if Gandhi, in his 81st year, would not have turned to animal mutilation. Jesus didn't make it to 35 and Gandhi didn't make it to 80, so we'll never know. A normal child of five with the bare facts can see this is a perverse delusion. But not a substantial number of Americans.

On Southeast Asia, we dropped 3 to 4 times more tons of bombs than were dropped on Europe and Asia in all of WW Two. All because they would not be our slaves. There were a thousand My Lais. At Quanggai alone, early in Johnson's war, three-quarters of those who were horrifically burned by napalm were women and children. We are only "good" at killing and maiming the weak and helpless. The obvious truth about Vietnam is still obscured to the American mainstream. Here's a brief of the most suppressed fact: My boys, the Boomers, mutinied starting in 1967. My boys started fragging the Southern, slavery-loving 2nd looies fresh out of the academies who thought they were going to make their promotions from the blood and guts of the good working boys who were plucked from the farms and factories back Stateside. There was never anything like it. Congress and the Pentagon refused to allow it to become public that there were thousands of fraggings and threats of fraggings every year; in Congressional hearings, a mere mention of it was cut off immediately. That's the biggest reason LBJ wouldn't seek another term after Tet in January-February 1968 -- his own draftees had stopped his war, and there was nothing he could do about it, and he was scared he was going to be fragged. Hamburger Hill, May 1969, the last Southern combat atrocity of the war against our own, resulted in a $10,000 bounty ($50,000 cash today) offered for the CO, Lt. Col. Weldon Honeycutt, offered in the underground newspaper GI Says. (try finding out anything about Honeycutt on the internet, you can't do it.) There were several attempts. After that, infantry assaults were "definitely out." Nixon changed it to a purely bombing war, combat troops effectively out by the end of 1972. But still, in 1972, there were an official 551 frags -- 86 dead, over 700 injured. So there is a limit to the Southern, military takeover of 1963, especially when my boys, the Boomers got in there.

If you doubt the Southern Military took over, read Kay Griggs and Sibel Edmonds. KG tells about American, mostly Southern, ex-military who are the world-wide assassins-for-hire. We have Blackwater, which morphed into Xenon. The worst now is an organization called Craft International LLC;, sniper Chris Kyle was an early bigshot in it. The Boston Marathon Bombing was lousy with Craft rent-a-mercenaries. Sibel Edmonds has exposed Gladio B, operating mostly in the Middle East. Her interviews and blog, Boiling Frogs Post, are great. In the Civil War of the 1860s, the work-allergic South learned they are no good at OPEN warfare. It shouldn't be too long before they learn that they are good at NO warfare. They can start wars and prey on women and children, but they are no good at good wars or finishing any war.

America, 4.5% of world population, spends more on the military than the rest of the world put together. That means that, per capita, we spend 20 times what the rest of the world spends. The military didn't take over in 1963?!?! We are their slaves. How could it be any worse? It's why we are the only developed nation without basic, universal health care. It's why we have more violent, horrific gun crime.

Part of the problem is the species homo sapiens. We have a knack for letting criminal oligarchs pay desperadoes to kill the leaders who are for the people. Ephialtes, Julius Caesar (see Michael Parenti), Jesus Christ, A Lincoln, Alexander II, James Garfield, FDR, JFK to name a few. H G Wells predicted that in five million years we would devolve into two separate species, Elois and Morlocks. But I believe it's somewhat cyclical. When a limit is reached, a certain critical mass, the good people stop putting up with it. Witness the Boomers stopping the Vietnam War from within and without.

What's worse than the Southern military takeover of USA is how we have been infected with their hatred of fundamental labor. Farming, building, forestry, mining, fishing used to be recognized as noble work, important work. Now we despise both the labor and the laborer, though it is what creates wealth. It doesn't have to stay this way. I don't believe it will. (Ouch. I have run on.)

Edited March 28, 2016 by Roy Wieselquist

[Jon G. Tidd]

Roy,

Did you ever serve in the U.S. military? If so, in which branch, when, and where? Thanks.

[Roy Wieselquist]

Jon,

I served nearly 30 years in residential construction, and some hospital, factory and warehouse work, then 15 years in education. In short I did the dirty, difficult, dangerous fundamental labor of this nation AND paid for the war-machine through my labor and my various companies' taxes. Also, starting in 1971, I was the five-star general and the buck private of Friends of the Vietnam Veterans Against the War. I got them in everywhere, helped them print their underground pape: it was no GI Says, but still. I was, and still am, a real stinker, as we used to say where I grew up in western Mass. In 1966 my parents kidnapped me and brought me to the Quaker oasis in the South, the Guilford College area of North Carolina, only because my father's job moved south due to the Industrial Flight from the North in the mid and late 60s, after the Confederates got rid of our man Jack. So, from relatively safe bases (also Asheville, NC and a few places in MD and northern VA), I have been a Spy in the House of Hate for 50 years.

I could tell you stories but I don't want to brag. Oh OK, one. When I was a freshman at Wake Forest U '72-'73, VP Spiro Agnew came to town, Winston Salem, NC. There weren't many of us Few at that school, but about 20-30 of us showed up there "to demonstrate." We brought visual aids, little balloons filled with red paint (symbolic blood) to chuck at the suits and pieces of barbed wire with profound messages taped to them like "How would YOU like it if YOUR backyard was littered with this?" Of course all that crap was confiscated as soon as we got there, and we were made to stand in the far back as we screamed ourselves hoarse, chest to chest with WS police. We couldn't get arrested because WS's finest were, and still are to my knowledge, methodical and none of us would have dreamed of assaulting a law officer. The newbie who was blocking me looked younger than 18-year old me, and begged me not to make him arrest me, some cock-and-bull story about his year-old daughter in the hospital having her tonsils out and he could go visit her right after, as long as he "didn't have any paperwork to do." (hint, hint) Anyway, Agnew resigned shortly after that. The balance was tipped in little old Winston Salem when even law enforcement realized he was garbage.

So yes, in short, I have served all my adult life in the U. S. military, the good, un-armed militia, not the Confederate military. Also the good police; I drive a Crown Vic. Ever read G. K. Chesterton's The Man Who Was Thursday? I'm Sunday, the lowly-looking beat-walker who's really in charge.

Edited February 27, 2016 by Roy Wieselquist

[Roy Wieselquist]

Jon, one more thing. I have observed that military veterans fall neatly into two groups, unlike anything else in nature or society. Group one sees their service as a rounding experience paid for by American labor, whom they appreciate all the more due to their free globetrotting, housing, grub, clothing, and medical care. Group two is the resentful lunatics. Their pet name for civilians is "dirtbags." They tell themselves they have been "fottin fer are fraydumb," in Confederatese. When really they are too lazy and cowardly to do productive work, which they sneer at.

[Jon G. Tidd]

Roy,

Thanks.

I regret this diary thread has died.

[Paul Trejo]

Whew! Paul, that's a powerful closing passage! I see in your mature years, you've at last found a hero, or maybe a. certain group from an era.

The only general in the 20th century to give up his pension?? That sounds well researched. True, How many of us, would give up our pensions?

To "do in civilian life, what was no longer possible to do in a uniform."!! Whoa!

But truly in their heart of hearts?? Wow, I bet nobody really appreciated them at the time either. Now that's courage.

I guess some fantasize being part of the March to Washington with Dr. King, some being with Nelson Mandela, Ghandi, and you have some perverse desire to be in that crowd and part oft that last flurry of the last days when white was right.

......Ok, I kinda get it.

Well, it's like this Kirk.

Jon Tidd recently asked that if the US Government didn't kill JFK, then does it really matter, 50 years later?

It's a profound question. I myself, because I accept the Walker-did-it CT, don't believe that the US Government killed JFK.

All the decades of arguments proposed by James DiEugenio and the CIA-did-it, LBJ-did-it, Mafia-did-it, etc. etc. CTers, have failed to convince me.

Yes -- I accept that there was a conspiracy to kill JFK. Yes -- I accept that the US Government covered it up.

No - I don't accept the BASELESS arguments that claim that the US Government killed JFK. LBJ, Hoover, Dulles and Warren all agreed that the Truth about JFK must be kept from the American Public for 75 years (from the WC publication). But after the USSR fell in 1990, President GHW Bush changed that date to 53 years.

That's a major clue. The reason that the US Government covered it up was because they didn't want the USSR to make a propaganda victory out of it, in the middle of the Cold War. They said 75 years because they didn't know how long the Cold War was going to last, IMHO.

What would the USSR gloat about? That our own Radical Right killed JFK -- over the Civil Rights issue.

So -- does it matter -- POLITICALLY? No, not anymore -- because there never was a real Coup-d-Etat -- and all those alarmist cries from the CIA-did-it school are just hysterical.

But it matters for HISTORY. HISTORY must be introduced to man who was famous 1961-1963, but who became forgotten in the greater narratives of US History -- e.g. the Vietnam War and the Watergate fiasco -- and all the later disasters.

HISTORY will be introduced to the Resigned General Edwin Walker -- who was the only US General to resign in the 20th century, forfeiting his 30-year Army Pension.

I don't admire that -- I regard that as a rash and bitter act of political showmanship. The year after Walker did that, he ran for Governor of Texas. If he would have won, he would have run for US President. If he had won, he would have been the Dixiecrat darling, and he would have reversed the Brown Decision, and restored the Jim Crow laws in the South. He said this openly.

This is not my hero. However, this is exactly the sort of person we should be looking for as the JFK Killer, and the mastermind of the JFK assassination.

Just 30 days before the murder of JFK in Dallas, General Walker had organized the humiliation of Adlai Stevenson in Dallas. It took him a full day to organize this -- in the very same auditorium in which Adlai would speak.

This is the guy whom history has forgotten -- but after 2017, he will again become big news, I predict. No, he's not my hero -- but he is one of the most colorful Americans in Cold War US History.

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

Edited February 29, 2016 by Paul Trejo