WARNING to Forum Members: Please Read This!

[Scott Kaiser]

By the way, is that a stamp I see at the top of the page that says TOP SECRET? No way!

[Scott Kaiser]

The movie theater is a mile from where Tippit was shot. Not exactly nearby.

Nevertheless....

I would expect the police to send two squad cars with four officers to check it out. One car for out front and the other for out back.

Certainly NOT 15 squad cars and 26 officers! How ridiculous!

Would that have meant they dispatched the entire police department to check on someone who reportedly entered the Texas Theater without paying his ticket? The moral of this story folks is don't try to sneak in to "cop a free show"!

[Scott Kaiser]

...a flurry of police officers arrives at the Texas Theater because someone didn't pay for a ticket...

This is nothing but total B.S. invented by CTers who are desperate to keep Lee Oswald blameless for all November 22 crimes.

The reason the police swarmed the Texas Theater was certainly NOT because Oswald had entered without buying a ticket. The reason, instead, was a perfectly logical and sensible one, all explained by the person who called the police, Julia Postal, in her Warren Commission testimony (the key sentence in Postal's testimony emphasized in bold text by DVP below).

I don't think the police even knew that Oswald had not bought a movie ticket when the police went to the theater. There's nothing in Mrs. Postal's testimony that would indicate she told the police on the phone that the man who just entered the theater had not purchased a ticket. It's possible that she told the DPD that information, but she certainly doesn't indicate it here....

JULIA POSTAL -- "I told Johnny [brewer] about the fact that the President had been assassinated. "I don't know if this is the man they want," I said, "in there, but he is running from them for some reason," and I said "I am going to call the police, and you and Butch [burroughs] go get on each of the exit doors and stay there." So, well, I called the police, and he wanted to know why I thought it was their man, and I said, "Well, I didn't know," and he said, "Well, it fits the description," and I have not---I said I hadn't heard the description. All I know is, "This man is running from them for some reason." And he wanted to know why, and told him because everytime the sirens go by he would duck and he wanted to know----well, if he fits the description is what he says. I said, "Let me tell you what he looks like and you take it from there." And explained that he had on this brown sports shirt and I couldn't tell you what design it was, and medium height, ruddy looking to me, and he said, "Thank you," and I called the operator and asked him to look through the little hole and see if he could see anything and told him I had called the police, and what was happening, and he wanted to know if I wanted him to cut the picture off, and I says, "No, let's wait until they get here." So, seemed like I hung up the intercom phone when here all of a sudden, police cars, policemen, plainclothesmen, I never saw so many people in my life. And they raced in, and the next thing I knew, they were carrying----well, that is when I first heard Officer Tippit had been shot because some officer came in the box office and used the phone, said, "I think we have got our man on both accounts." "What two accounts?" And said, "Well, Officer Tippit's," shocked me, because Officer Tippit used to work part time for us years ago. I didn't know him personally."

Complete Testimony Of Julia Postal

Since when has it become a crime to run? That's it! I'm walking everywhere I go now!

[Ray Mitcham]

From JFK and the unspeakable.

"..Butch Burroughs, who witnessed Oswald’s arrest, startled me in his interview by saying he saw a second arrest occur in the Texas Theater only “three or four minutes later.” 449

He said the Dallas Police then arrested “an Oswald lookalike.” Burroughs said the second man “looked almost like Oswald, like he was his brother or something.” 450

When I questioned the comparison by asking, “Could you see the second man as well as you could see Oswald?” he said, “Yes, I could see both of them. They looked alike.” 451

After the officers half-carried and half-dragged Oswald to the police car in front of the theater, within a space of three or four minutes, Burroughs saw the second Oswald placed under arrest and handcuffed. The Oswald look-alike, however, was taken by police not out the front but out the back of the theater.” 452

What happened next we can earn from another neglected witnesses, Bernard Haire. 453

Bernard J. Haire was the owner of Bernie’s Hobby House, just two doors east of the Texas Theater. Haire went outside his store when he saw police cars congregating in front of the theater. 454 When he couldn’t see what was happening because of the crowd, he went back through his store into the alley out back. It, too, was full of police cars, but there were fewer spectators. Haire walked up the alley. When he stopped opposite the rear door of the theater, he witnessed what he would think for decades was the arrest of Lee Harvey Oswald.

“Police brought a young white man out,” Haire told an interviewer. “The man was dressed in a pullover shirt and sacks. He seemed to be flushed, as if he’d been in a struggle. Police put the man in a police car and drove off.” 455

When Haire was told in 1987 that Lee Harvey Oswald had been brought out the front of the theater by police, he was shocked.

“I don’t know who I saw arrested,” he said in bewilderment. 456

Buctch Burroughs and Bernard Haire are complimentary witnesses. From their perspectives both inside and outside the Texas Theater, they saw an Oswald double arrested and taken to a police car in the back alley only minutes after the arrest of Lee Harvey Oswald. Burroughs’ and Haire’s independent, converging testimonies provide critical insight into the mechanics of the plot. In a comprehensive intelligence scenario for Kennedy’s and Tippit’s murders, the plan culminated in Oswald’s Friday arrest and Sunday’s murder (probably a fall back from his being set up to be killed in the Texas Theater by the police).

There is a hint of the second Oswald’s arrest in the Dallas police records.

According to the Dallas Police Department’s official Homicide Report on J.D. Tippit, “Suspect was later arrested in the balcony of the Texas Theater at 231 W. Jefferson.” 457

Dallas Police detective L.D. Springfellow also reported to Captain W. P. Gannaway, “Lee Harvey Oswald was arrested in the balconyh of the Texas Theater.” 458

To whom are the Homicide Report and Detective Springfellow referring? Lee Harvey Oswald was arrested in the orchestra, not balcony. Are these documents referring to the Dallas Police Department’s second arrest in the Texas Theater that afternoon? Was Butch Burroughs witnessing an arrest of the Oswald look-alike that actually began in the balcony? That would have likely been the double’s hiding place, after he entered the theater without paying, thereby drawing attention to himself and leading the police to the apprehension of his likeness, Lee Harvey Oswald (who was already inside). As Butch Burroughs pointed out, anyone coming in the front of the theater could head immediately up the stairs to the balcony without being seen from the concession stand.

The Oswald double, after having been put in the police car in the alley, must have been driven a short distance and released on higher intelligence orders. Unfortunately for the plotters, he was seen again soon. With the scapegoat, Lee Harvey Oswald, now safely in custody, we can presume that the double was not supposed to be seen again in Dallas – or anywhere else. Had he not been seen, the CIA’s double-Oswald strategy in an Oak Cliff shell game might have eluded independent investigators forever. But thanks to other key witnesses who have emerged, we now have detailed evidence that the double was seen again – not just once but twice.

[bK Notes: I don't believe, as JD apparently does, that the man who resembled Oswald and was taken into custody by the Dallas PD out the back of the Texas Theater is the same person who resembled Oswald and seen by T. H. White in a 57 Plymouth with Texas License plate PP 4537, as there apparently were more than two individuals who resembled Oswald in Oak Cliff at that time.]

[James DiEugenio]

What exactly did Postal see of "Oswald running"?

[Scott Kaiser]

I have a question, do you know if the serial numbers off the rifle found at the TSBD are those that matched to Oswald's? It really wouldn't have been that hard to set up Oswald, even if A. Hidell's postal money order was never stamped as paid by the bank. That only indicates the plotters did NOT want that postal money order to reach the bank but why? Because the bank would have had to turn it over to the postmaster, and the postmaster would have declared the money order a forgery, which would have opened a whole new can of worms, so rather then the postal money order being declared a forgery it's better to prove that Oswald had an ID as the alias A. Hidell, who else knew he had that alias too?

It's not looking very good for those who believe Oswald acted alone.

Edited February 26, 2016 by Scott Kaiser

[David Von Pein]

I would expect the police to send two squad cars with four officers to check it out. One car for out front and the other for out back.

Certainly NOT 15 squad cars and 26 officers! How ridiculous!

So, Sandy, are you actually suggesting that those "26 officers" were part of some plot to frame Oswald as of 1:45 PM CST on November 22nd? Is that what you're saying?

To use your own words --- How ridiculous!

IMO / FWIW....

The Dallas Police Department, of course, was certainly not privy to any advanced information as to the whereabouts of Lee Harvey Oswald in the Texas Theater on November 22, 1963. That notion is a tremendously ludicrous one, in my view.

But as far as the mindset of the Dallas Police at the time when many police cars were dispatched to the Texas Theater in Oak Cliff on that Friday in 1963, I think it's quite likely that many of those police officers did make a possible connection in their minds (even if they didn't want to admit it later on) between President Kennedy's assassination and the murder of the policeman.

After all, the police knew the President had been shot just 45 minutes before a police officer was also shot and killed. And the two shootings occurred just a few miles apart. And the DPD also knew that the description they had of the suspect in the Presidential shooting was "similar" to the description they had of the suspect who had just shot the policeman. Here's one of the radio transmissions that was made over the DPD radio system at 1:28 PM Dallas time on November 22:

Dispatcher -- "Notify 1 that officer involved in this shooting, Officer J.D. Tippit, we believe, was pronounced DOA at Methodist. 1:28 p.m."

Deputy Chief of Police N.T. Fisher -- "Is there any indication that it has any connection with this other shooting?"

Dispatcher -- "Well, the descriptions on the suspect are similar and it is possible."

----------

Given these circumstances, Sandy, what would YOU have done if you had been the Dallas Police Department's dispatcher on 11/22/63?

Edited February 27, 2016 by David Von Pein

[David Von Pein]

Since when has it become a crime to run? That's it! I'm walking everywhere I go now!

Let me get this straight (from your point-of-view), Scott....

You don't think there was anything at all suspicious or strange about the way Lee Oswald was behaving shortly after the Tippit murder?

For example:

You don't think it was strange for him to be lurking in the entrance to Johnny Brewer's shoe store, with his back to the street as police cars were roaring by on Jefferson Boulevard?

You don't think it was strange for LHO to duck into the theater without buying the cheap ticket (even though he had more than $13 in his pocket at the time)?

You don't think it was odd (or a sign of guilt) for Oswald to be brandishing a revolver when the police approached him in the movie theater?

You don't think it was odd (or a sign of guilt) for Oswald to shout out "This is it!" when he was seized by Officer McDonald?

All of that stuff was just normal everyday activity in the life of Lee Harvey Oswald? Is that it, Scott?

Edited February 26, 2016 by David Von Pein

[Scott Kaiser]

You don't think it was strange for him to be lurking in the entrance to Johnny Brewer's shoe store, with his back to the street as police cars were roaring by on Jefferson Boulevard?

David, my brother, don't believe everything you see on TV you do realize a lot of that stuff is Hollywood right?

You don't think it was strange for LHO to duck into the theater without buying the cheap ticket (even though he had more than $13 in his pocket at the time)?

Was the ticket counter person at their place to sell the ticket? By not buying the ticket does that make them guilty of murder? Or, perhaps, Oswald knew that with all his connections to anti-Castro Cubans and the CIA - FBI that maybe, just maybe he knew he was getting setup for killing the president, and maybe, just maybe he didn't even know anything about Tippit's murder, that was just a bonus on behalf of the conspirators to apprehend Oswald. Was there any real solid description of Oswald killing Tippit? How do you explain the .38 special shell casings found at the sight when Oswald's gun was a .38?

I know, another screw up right?

You don't think it was odd (or a sign of guilt) for Oswald to be brandishing a revolver when the police approached him in the movie theater?

I'm going to let you in on a little secret, my father, who was a "convicted felon" had been caught carrying his concealed .45 several times in Miami, even put that gun right up to Maurice Ferre's head, and threatened to kill him. Do you think it's odd that my father never spent a day in prison?

You don't think it was odd (or a sign of guilt) for Oswald to shout out "This is it!" when he was seized by Officer McDonald?

If you knew you were getting set up, and it all went down the same way, and you knew that whoever it was that set you up made sure you got caught, wouldn't you be saying "this is it" too?

All of that stuff was just normal everyday activity in the life of Lee Harvey Oswald? Is that it, Scott?

If it truly was, then how can you account for all the screw ups pertaining to a high profile murder. Frankly, I've never in my life has seen more sloppy of work in any murder investigation let alone Jack Kennedy, the president of the United States. Now, had this been,, say, Lizzy Borden trail, well now, we're going as far back as 1892. Times have certainly changed since then, but not by much when it came to Kennedy.

It was six months of display and show, that the Warren Commission only had one thing to sell, their opinion, don't you find that odd?

If the glove don't fit, you must acquit, is that it?

Edited February 26, 2016 by Scott Kaiser

[David Von Pein]

You need to read Johnny Brewer's testimony, Scott.

It seems there are a lot of details about the events of 11/22/63 that you are unaware of....

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/brewer_j.htm

Edited February 26, 2016 by David Von Pein

[Jon G. Tidd]

DVP,

Let's talk gut level. On Sunday, November 24, I went into a University of Illinois campus pharmacy to cash a $20 check. On the pharmacy TV i saw Ruby shoot Oswald.

Up to that point, my gut was that Oswald killed JFK.

On that day, my mind changed. That was 1963. The assassination weekend.

Was your mind ever changed?

[James DiEugenio]

I repeat the question: What exactly did Postal see of Oswald running?

[David Von Pein]

DVP,

Let's talk gut level. On Sunday, November 24, I went into a University of Illinois campus pharmacy to cash a $20 check. On the pharmacy TV i saw Ruby shoot Oswald.

Up to that point, my gut was that Oswald killed JFK.

On that day, my mind changed. That was 1963. The assassination weekend.

Was your mind ever changed?

I was less than 2 years old when the assassination occurred. And when I first became interested in the subject in 1981, I don't have a clear memory of being on EITHER side of the "CT or LN" fence. But after learning lots more about Oswald and the assassination, it became pretty clear that LHO was the lone gunman. But I was never a full-fledged "CTer".

I often wish I could remember exactly what I was thinking as I read David Lifton's book back in '81, but I just can't remember. (I'm just glad I didn't swallow Lifton's fairy tale, though.)

jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2012/07/dvp-interview-about-television-and-jfk.html

Edited February 26, 2016 by David Von Pein

[David Von Pein]

I repeat the question: What exactly did Postal see of Oswald running?

Julia Postal herself never saw Oswald "running" at all. That's true enough. And Johnny Brewer never saw Oswald in the act of physically "running" either. That's true too.

When Postal used the word "running" in her call to police, she wasn't using that word to describe a person who was exhibiting an all-out sprinting or "running" action. She only meant that the person who went into the theater was attempting to evade the police.

Edited February 26, 2016 by David Von Pein

[Scott Kaiser]

David,

Sounds to me that Mr. Brewer spent sometime with the questioning counsel, could he have been coerced or coached into what should be said?

Mr. BELIN - All right, you saw a man going into what you referred to as this lobby area?
Mr. BREWER - Yes; and he stood there with his back to the street.
Mr. BELIN - When did he go in now? What did you hear at the time that he stepped into this lobby area?
Mr. BREWER - I heard the police cars coming up Jefferson, and he stepped in, and the police made a U-turn and went back down East Jefferson.
Mr. BELIN - Where did he make the U-turn?
Mr. BREWER - At Zangs.

The highlighted question almost makes it sound as though Oswald entered the store, and Mr. Belin wanted to know from Mr. Brewer what he heard?

Objection, calls for speculation, how could Mr. Brewer see where Mr. Oswald made his "U" turn at Zangs if he just testified, well, I'll let you read what he said.

Mr. BREWER - No; I was Still in the store behind the counter

Edited February 26, 2016 by Scott Kaiser