Michael Walton Posted November 6, 2016 Share Posted November 6, 2016 Sorry Sandy but this has long been put to bed, not by me but by the Zavada report. http://www.jfk-info.com/zreport.htm Further, all you have to do is watch the synched up Nix and Z films. It must have been a million to one lucky guess that the Bad Guys removed just enough frames from the Z film so that they sync up perfectly. Really? As I've said over and over again, not everything about the Kennedy case is a conspiracy. The Z film shows conspiracy so I guess the Bad Guys, in all of their effort to remove frames, forgot to remove the parts that show conspiracy. My suggestion is look elsewhere in the case to dig into something besides the Z film. And please don't mention your engineering and "numbers" background. Zavada did that for us and the remaining is just a good dose of plausible and common sense thinking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandy Larsen Posted November 6, 2016 Share Posted November 6, 2016 The proof is right there, Michael. And you won't even look at it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandy Larsen Posted November 6, 2016 Share Posted November 6, 2016 As it turns out Michael, I'm glad you didn't read my "proof" because I discovered a fatal error in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Davidson Posted March 5, 2018 Author Share Posted March 5, 2018 http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/24596-shooter-location/?do=findComment&comment=371368 Why am I continuing this here? Because the end result of the math used to eliminate the remaining approx 33frames/30ft/1.8 seconds resides in the link above. It just wasn't completed in one fell swoop. Extant zframe133 when plotted at Station# 299.0 to the beginning of (CE884) Station# 329.2 = 30.2ft There is no data for the span z133-z166 = 33 frames. There is only BS data for z161-z166. 33/18fps (need a whole frame total)=1.8333...seconds 30.2ft/1.8333... seconds = 16.47ft per sec = 11.2mph Do you understand what remainder was eliminated in terms of an overall equation which would include the span of z133-z166 when an average speed of 11.2mph was used, but didn't include the span of z133-z166? Mr. SPECTER. Is that a constant average speed or does that speed reflect any variations in the movement of the car? Mr. SHANEYFELT. That is the overall average from 161 to 313. It does not mean that it was traveling constantly at 11.2, because it was more than likely going faster in some areas and slightly slower in some areas. It is only an average speed over the entire run. Mr. DULLES. Over the entire run between what points? Mr. SHANEYFELT. Between frame 161 and 313. Once again, what part of the equation (frame#) did the limo first appear in and what part of the equation did the data begin with? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Josephs Posted March 5, 2018 Share Posted March 5, 2018 52 minutes ago, Chris Davidson said: Once again, what part of the equation (frame#) did the limo first appear in and what part of the equation did the data begin with? Data begins with Station C and Position A... and z168. Mr. McCLOY. Where is that point? What significance is that point? The first point? Mr. SPECTER. This frame 161. Mr. McCLOY. Yes. Mr. SPECTER. Is the first frame we have on the Zapruder film. Really? Mr. SHANEYFELT. This is an album that I prepared of black and white photographs made of the majority of the frames in the Zapruder film---- Mr. SPECTER. Starting with what frame number? Mr. SHANEYFELT. Starting with frame 171, going through frame 334. Mr. SPECTER. And why did you start with frame 171? Mr. SHANEYFELT. This is the frame that the slides start from. This was an arbitrary frame number that was decided on as being far enough back to include the area that we wanted to study. 334 - 171 = 163 334 - 166 = 168 168 thru 171 becomes 161 to 166. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Davidson Posted March 5, 2018 Author Share Posted March 5, 2018 30 minutes ago, David Josephs said: Data begins with Station C and Position A... and z168. Yes it does. But in the spirit of trying to simplify what I'll be providing, I'm going to tie it back to extant z133 for now. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Josephs Posted March 5, 2018 Share Posted March 5, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Mitcham Posted March 5, 2018 Share Posted March 5, 2018 (edited) I had a Bell an Howell 8mm standard film cine camera in the seventies. (OK, I know it's not the same camera as Zapruder used!) The camera did exactly what David mentions above. Every time you stopped the camera the first frame was always either under or over exposed as the meter inside the camera tried to get the correct setting. Anybody who says that there wasn't a splice where David says above is talking through his or her backside. Not only that, but Zapruder said he started filming before the limo turned onto Elm St, as he wanted to film the turn. he never said that he stopped his camera to save film, as the desperados say. Edited March 5, 2018 by Ray Mitcham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Davidson Posted March 5, 2018 Author Share Posted March 5, 2018 1 hour ago, Ray Mitcham said: I had a Bell an Howell 8mm standard film cine camera in the seventies. (OK, I know it's not the same camera as Zapruder used!) The camera did exactly what David mentions above. Every time you stopped the camera the first frame was always either under or over exposed as the meter inside the camera tried to get the correct setting. Anybody who says that there wasn't a splice where David says above is talking through his or her backside. Not only that, but Zapruder said he started filming before the limo turned onto Elm St, as he wanted to film the turn. he never said that he stopped his camera to save film, as the desperados say. Ray, I don't want to get into a discussion about the non-math elements of why, what you said is true. I'm showing what math was used which allowed the WC to try and fool who, you are directing your comments toward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Davidson Posted March 5, 2018 Author Share Posted March 5, 2018 3 hours ago, Chris Davidson said: http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/24596-shooter-location/?do=findComment&comment=371368 Why am I continuing this here? Because the end result of the math used to eliminate the remaining approx 33frames/30ft/1.8 seconds resides in the link above. It just wasn't completed in one fell swoop. Extant zframe133 when plotted at Station# 299.0 to the beginning of (CE884) Station# 329.2 = 30.2ft There is no data for the span z133-z166 = 33 frames. There is only BS data for z161-z166. 33/18fps (need a whole frame total)=1.8333...seconds 30.2ft/1.8333... seconds = 16.47ft per sec = 11.2mph Do you understand what remainder was eliminated in terms of an overall equation which would include the span of z133-z166 when an average speed of 11.2mph was used, but didn't include the span of z133-z166? Mr. SPECTER. Is that a constant average speed or does that speed reflect any variations in the movement of the car? Mr. SHANEYFELT. That is the overall average from 161 to 313. It does not mean that it was traveling constantly at 11.2, because it was more than likely going faster in some areas and slightly slower in some areas. It is only an average speed over the entire run. Mr. DULLES. Over the entire run between what points? Mr. SHANEYFELT. Between frame 161 and 313. Once again, what part of the equation (frame#) did the limo first appear in and what part of the equation did the data begin with? http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/24596-shooter-location/?do=findComment&comment=371368 This span was 183 frames. They ended up with 152 frames from z161-z313. Notice the plat designation goes beyond z313 on Drommer. Since 1.525 was the exact conversion for 18.3ft horizontal/1ft vertical, the frame reduction was from 183 to 152.5 (z161-z313) 30.5 frames /183 = .166666..... frame reduction 30.5frames/30.2ft reduction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddy Bainbridge Posted March 5, 2018 Share Posted March 5, 2018 "I couldn't tell if any frames were removed. Seen as a whole it shows that I have seen. Seeing you have 18 frames a second you can take out one or two and I couldn't tell." - Abraham Zapruder, Clay Shaw Trial. Reading what Alvarez said about the Z film close to the fatal shot; he finds that the film (which he assumes is reality) shows; a short deceleration, the Z313 shot and then..... the Car travelling at constant speed!!. His analysis of the film shows him that somewhere around Z300 a deceleration occurred (from 12 mph to 8 mph) but then this speed remained constant past Z334. "Certainly the car eventually speeded up, and this is doubtless what agent Greer recalled" is Alvarez's conclusion. This is a pretty implausible assessment to me. I find the constant speed observed in this section of the film highly suspicious. From the testimony it seems more plausible that the sequence contains a deceleration to a stop, then a rapid acceleration. You can create the effect of constant speed by removing frames. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Josephs Posted March 5, 2018 Share Posted March 5, 2018 THEY REMOVED THE 30 PLUS FEET PAST Z313 TO THE 3RD SHOT BY MOVING THE ACTUAL Z161 BACK TO Z131 SHANEYFELT REPEATEDLY TALKS OF THE START OF THE SEQUENCE, THE EARLIEST FILM THEY HAVE STARTING AT Z161. AS WE'VE SAID ALL ALONG...NPIC STARTED WITH Z312 AND WORKED BACKWARD AS BEST THEY COULD... THE FRAME NUMBERS HAVE ALWAYS BEEN ARBITRARY SIONCE WE HAVE A SPLICED FILM... AFTER THE 131 OR 161 SPLICE TO REMOVE THOSE 30 FRAMES, WE HAVE NO IDEA ANYMORE THE ACTUAL FRAME NUMBERS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Davidson Posted March 5, 2018 Author Share Posted March 5, 2018 2 hours ago, Chris Davidson said: Since 1.525 was the exact conversion for 18.3ft horizontal/1ft vertical, the frame reduction was from 183 to 152.5 (z161-z313) 30.5 frames /183 = .166666..... frame reduction 30.5frames/30.2ft reduction. Their math will bring the equation back to a 1 to 1 ratio or approx. thereof. If you will convert .166666... into a fraction you have a 1/6 frame reduction. That means you have a remainder of 5/6 of the frames. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Davidson Posted March 5, 2018 Author Share Posted March 5, 2018 Remember though, Films work in whole frames (1/1 ratio), so to convert 5/6 back to a whole, we need a multiplier: 5/6 x 1.2 = 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Davidson Posted March 5, 2018 Author Share Posted March 5, 2018 Everything up to extant z133 has been excised. Lets start from extant z133 moving forward. If I have a 48FPS slo-mo film to begin with and I remove 1/2 the frames in one pass, that leaves me with a 24FPS film, but not in terms of movement within the film. The final frame rate of 18.3/48 = a movement of .38125. But 1/2 the frames have been excised (remember when you remove frames, you increase movement within the film) by the time we get to extant z133. So the movement becomes .38125 x 2 = .7625 of the original 48FPS film. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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