Anatomy Of The Second Floor Lunch Room Encounter

[Gerry Simone]

On 4/16/2017 at 9:48 AM, Bart Kamp said:

 

To me that looks like Billy Lovelady (from his plaid shirt and bald spot at the crown of his head - the FBI mug shots are him wearing a different shirt).

 

[Gerry Simone]

On 4/16/2017 at 0:04 PM, Michael Walton said:

I don't understand some of you people......there is nothing but personal beliefs for seeing Lovelady in Darnell on the steps. You have no evidence to back your beliefs and prefer to eat the lemon called their WC testimonies. Think for a second about that!

I have to go with what my eyes are seeing, Bart.  You've done great work on PM but the GIF below, at the very beginning, looks like a bald-headed guy and the pattern of his shirt looks like Lovelady. This is by no means scientific, of course, as many other theories of the case are unscientific as well. But the bald guy is almost in the exact same spot as he was when he was up a little more and leaning over as seen in that other footage and as seen in Altgens.

Like I said, too, your "two guys down on the Annex" also look like Lovelady and the other guy (sorry I can't remember his name).

Again, look at the very first frame or two of the GIF below - there's like a moment of clarity in it and it really does look like Lovelady.  Is it?  Are your two Annex guys Lovelady?  It does leave a quandary in your otherwise well-done PM.You really, truly have to ask yourself - who is the bald guy up there on the steps in the GIF below?

Michael/Thomas,

I'm sorry that I don't know the sequence of these "lesser" films and photographs, so I'll have to study them in more detail before I can understand their order and timing, and where they might show some overlap.  

In any event, in the attached frame with BWF superimposed in the top right corner (presumably this is from Bart Kamp's site?), if that's Frazier standing high on the top step, wouldn't BNL not be far from him?

I don't know if that sort of answers your question (I understand about seeing him in two places at the same time if I understand correctly, but we need to 1st establish if that's him in the first place).  I do see the lady in black and the lady in white, and somebody is between them and PM.  Lovelady?  Is there any possibility that the sequence or order and timing of the films is slightly incorrect so that it gives the illusion of one person being in two places at the same time (if that's the nature of the problem)?

Edited April 18, 2017 by Gerry Simone

[Thomas Graves]

2 hours ago, Gerry Simone said:

[...]

Dear Gerry,

I'm going to keep this as simple as I can.

1 )  The frame you've posted with the red oblong around Frazier is a detail from the James Darnell part of Gerda Dunckel's dizzying "Synchronized Couch-Darnell" GIF, and was taken about 30 seconds after the assassination.

2 )  Now a question for you:  Do you see the woman who is dressed all in white (including a white headscarf) in the lower left part of the frame you've posted?  She's standing directly below Prayer Man, and the top of her head is at the same level as Prayer Man's knees. (You do know which person in your frame is Prayer Man, don't you?  Hint:  Prayer Man is standing by himself in the upper left-hand corner.)

3  )  Good.  Now, another question for you: Do you see the woman who is wearing a black blouse and a black headscarf to that woman's immediate left?

4)  Good.  Final question for you:  Can you see the man on the steps who is facing that black-wearing woman?  Hint:  his face and bald forehead are glowing like crazy in the sunlight.  You may have to watch this video ...

... several times to "get your bearings" and to realize that that really is a man directly in front of (and a step or two higher than) the woman wearing the black blouse and the black headscarf.

5 )  My statement to you:  Sandy Larsen and I believe that the guy I'm talking about here (i.e., the guy whose face and bald forehead are glowing like crazy in the sunlight -- the guy standing in front of the woman who's wearing the black blouse and black headscarf) is Billy Nolan Lovelady, and that that woman he standing in front of (who's wearing the black blouse and the black headscarf) is one Gloria Jean Calvery (who, I should warn you, has been confused for another woman, Stella Jacob) for many, many years in the photographs and films that were taken of the motorcade, photographically confused, I say, with another TSBD employee as she (i.e., Gloria Jean Calvery) was standing, with some of her (also headscarf-wearing!) co-workers, down on the north side of Elm Street during the motorcade.

--  Tommy

Edited April 18, 2017 by Thomas Graves

[Sandy Larsen]

2 hours ago, Gerry Simone said:

 

Gerry,

I made a little presentation on the discovery that Lovelady was still standing on the TSBD steps after the shooting, and not walking down Elm Street Extension as was previously thought:

Did Billy Lovelady remain on the TSBD steps after Officer Baker's arrival?

The presentation has a useful animated gif that shows Lovelady's hairline as he turns his head.

 

Edited April 18, 2017 by Sandy Larsen

[Michael Walton]

I  am going  to  concur  here. I  really  do believe  that sunlight  reflecting bald guy is BL. This  film was shot...what 45 to 75 seconds after the  last  shot was fired?

Many of the  same people  are in  the  same  position  in the vestibule  that they were in as seen in earlier films. So it seems  reasonable  to think BL didn't  quite go dashing  off to save the  day by heading  over  to  the  knoll area.

Amazingly BL can also  be  seen ape like and back  on  the  steps  and in living color in  the  Hughes film too. And I  believe  that  film sequence  was  shot much later after  the  shooting.

Sounds  like  our  boy Billy loved  lingering  around  the  steps  that day.

One question...does  this  have  any effect on  the  PM theory?

[Gerry Simone]

Quote

5 )  My statement to you:  Sandy Larsen and I believe that the guy I'm talking about here (i.e., the guy whose face and bald forehead are glowing like crazy in the sunlight -- the guy standing in front of the woman who's wearing the black blouse and black headscarf) is Billy Nolan Lovelady, and that that woman he standing in front of (who's wearing the black blouse and the black headscarf) is one Gloria Jean Calvery (who, I should warn you, has been confused for another woman, Stella Jacob) for many, many years in the photographs and films that were taken of the motorcade, photographically confused, I say, with another TSBD employee as she (i.e., Gloria Jean Calvery) was standing, with some of her (also headscarf-wearing!) co-workers, down on the north side of Elm Street during the motorcade.

--  Tommy 

 

Tommy,

Thank you for spoon-feeding me all this info and the footage (Yes, I'm aware who PM is.  Newbie on this forum but not new to the JFK Assassination debate although not an expert on every aspect, if any).

I see every person you've meticulously described, including who you think might be BL.

I can't say for sure if that's BL but it could be him, even by what Sandy has posted below your post that I've quoted (thank you Sandy) with what may be his white undershirt exposed.

But I have a follow-up question.

If the red oblong circle supposedly is Frazier (in my earlier posted frame), why is there a difference in the shirt color between the Frazier standing on the landing in that Darnell still frame (not the inset photo) and the Frazier supposedly walking towards the knoll or parking lot on the Elm St. extension?  The former is light, the latter is dark (like the shirt worn by Frazier in the inset photo).  Maybe that's not Frazier on the Landing?  So maybe that's not BL either down below?

I think Frazier was wearing this dark shirt on that fateful day, as the pic below.

 

Edited April 18, 2017 by Gerry Simone

[Gerry Simone]

10 hours ago, Sandy Larsen said:

Gerry,

I made a little presentation on the discovery that Lovelady was still standing on the TSBD steps after the shooting, and not walking down Elm Street Extension as was previously thought:

Did Billy Lovelady remain on the TSBD steps after Officer Baker's arrival?

The presentation has a useful animated gif that shows Lovelady's hairline as he turns his head.

 

Thank you very much for taking the time to reply and with your link.

[Thomas Graves]

2 hours ago, Gerry Simone said:

 

[...]

If the red oblong circle supposedly is Frazier [It is, Gerry; no one disputes that] (in my earlier posted frame), why is there a difference in the shirt color between the Frazier standing on the landing in that Darnell still frame (not the inset photo) and the Frazier supposedly walking towards the knoll or parking lot on the Elm St. extension?  The former is light, the latter is dark (like the shirt worn by Frazier in the inset photo).  Maybe that's not Frazier on the Landing?  So maybe that's not BL either down below?

I think Frazier was wearing this dark shirt on that fateful day, as the pic below.

 

Dear Gerry,

To my knowledge, no one on this forum has ever claimed that Frazier was photographically "captured" walking down Elm Street Extension with another man about 30 seconds after the assassination.

It's obvious to me that you're confusing Frazier with the guy Bart Kamp says is "William Shelley" in the dizzying Couch-Darnell clip, walking with the guy Bart Kamp claims is "Lovelady" on his right in said dizzying clip. 

--  Tommy

Edited April 18, 2017 by Thomas Graves

[Gerry Simone]

41 minutes ago, Thomas Graves said:

Dear Gerry,

To my knowledge, no one on this forum has ever claimed that Frazier was photographically "captured" walking down Elm Street Extension with another man about 30 seconds after the assassination.

It's obvious to me that you're confusing Frazier with the guy Bart Kamp says is "William Shelley" in the dizzying Couch-Darnell clip, walking with the guy Bart Kamp claims is "Lovelady" on his right in said dizzying clip. 

--  Tommy

My apologies.  You're right Tommy.  It's supposed to be William Shelley walking down the Elm St. extension.  Thank you.  However, is there an explanation for what appears to be a difference in the shirt color?

(P.S.  Looks like I'll have to study my DVD of the Assassination Films by Groden later too).

Edited April 18, 2017 by Gerry Simone

[Thomas Graves]

39 minutes ago, Gerry Simone said:

My apologies.  You're right Tommy.  It's supposed to be William Shelley walking down the Elm St. extension.  Thank you.  However, is there an explanation for what appears to be a difference in the shirt color?

(P.S.  Looks like I'll have to study my DVD of the Assassination Films by Groden later too).

Shirt color?

Bill Shelley was wearing a dark-colored, un-patterned suit over a white shirt that day.

That's him on the right.

--  Tommy

PS  If I understand your question correctly (always a risky assumption), yes there is.

In other words, the explanation you seek is very simple --- it wasn't Shelley who was walking down Elm Street "with" that other guy (who looks like Lovelady) in that dizzying Couch-Darnell GIF or in the blowups thereof.

But then again, I probably don't know what you're talking about.

LOL

Edited April 18, 2017 by Thomas Graves

[Gerry Simone]

4 hours ago, Thomas Graves said:

Shirt color?

Bill Shelley was wearing a dark-colored, un-patterned suit over a white shirt that day.

That's him on the right.

--  Tommy

PS  If I understand your question correctly (always a risky assumption), yes there is.

In other words, the explanation you seek is very simple --- it wasn't Shelley who was walking down Elm Street "with" that other guy (who looks like Lovelady) in that dizzying Couch-Darnell GIF or in the blowups thereof.

But then again, I probably don't know what you're talking about.

LOL

Thank you again.

Sorry, I meant for Wesley Frazier.  On the landing of the TSBD, his shirt seems light colored but the inset photo and another of him inside the DPD station, it looks like a dark shirt. Any explanation for that?  (Did he change his shirt too?)

P.S.  I just noticed that your posted pic above is a frame capture from the CNN 60s series.  Man, you guys in this forum are good.  

Edited April 19, 2017 by Gerry Simone

[Thomas Graves]

3 hours ago, Gerry Simone said:

Thank you again.

Sorry, I meant for Wesley Frazier.  On the landing of the TSBD, his shirt seems light colored but the inset photo and another of him inside the DPD station, it looks like a dark shirt. Any explanation for that?  (Did he change his shirt too?)

P.S.  I just noticed that your posted pic above is a frame capture from the CNN 60s series.  Man, you guys in this forum are good.  

 

What's your point?

You don't think that's Frazier on the landing?

[Michael Clark]

Frazier is walking down the Elm St. extension with Lovelady.

[Alistair Briggs]

4 hours ago, Gerry Simone said:

Sorry, I meant for Wesley Frazier.  On the landing of the TSBD, his shirt seems light colored but the inset photo and another of him inside the DPD station, it looks like a dark shirt. Any explanation for that?  (Did he change his shirt too?)

He is wearing his jacket when he goes to the DPD - or so I've been led to believe...

[Sandy Larsen]

54 minutes ago, Michael Clark said:

Frazier is walking down the Elm St. extension with Lovelady.

LOL

(That is a joke, right? Because Gerry was a bit confused?.)

Gerry,

In the Couch/Darnell clip, the old consensus was that, after the shooting, Frazier remained standing on the steps (the top step near the handrail), and Shelley and Lovelady are seen walking together down the Elm Street extension.

However, more and more people are now realizing that Lovelady can still be seen on the steps after the shooting. So Frazier and Lovelady are still on the steps in the Couch/Darnell clip. We don't know who those two guys walking down the extension are. And Shelley has probably gone back inside to call his wife (in accordance with his first-day affidavit).

Researcher Bart Kamp has a vested interest in the old consensus, as it is a part of his "Anatomy of a Second Floor Encounter" thesis. So he still argues against the new reality.

(Disclosure: Tommy and I are proponents of the "new reality." The reason we are is because we found the missing link that virtually proves that it is Lovelady we see on the steps. The missing link is a girl by the name of Gloria Calvery. Lovelady testified that she came to the steps BEFORE HE LEFT. Tommy and I have identified Gloria Calvery, and in Couch/Darnell we see her talking to Lovelady face-to-face.

(Note:The inset is a frame from the Zapruder film.)

 

Edited April 19, 2017 by Sandy Larsen