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Do we have a Mystery Police Officer here?


Steve Thomas
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According to Will Fritz, someone, whose name he could not remember gave him Oswald's Beckley address before he began interrogating Oswald:
(WC 4H207)

Mr. FRITZ. When I started to talk to this prisoner or maybe just before I started to talk to him, some officer told me outside of my office that he had a room on Beckley, I don't know who that officer was, I think we can find out, I have since I have talked to you this morning I have talked to Lieutenant Baker and he says I know maybe who that officer was, but I am not sure yet.

(WC 4H210)

Mr. Ball. Was there anything said about where he lived?
Mr. Fritz. Where he lived? Right at that time?
Mr. Ball. Yes
Mr. Fritz. I am sure I had no way of asking him where he lived, but I am not too sure about that – just how quick he told me because he corrected me, I thought he lived in Irving and he told me he didn’t live in Irving. He lived on Beckley as the officer had told me outside.

Will Fritz's Interrogation Notes:

http://www.jfklancer.com/Fritzdocs.html

1st Interview November 22nd:

Present Were:

B.O. + James Hosty

Jame W. Bookout

(B.O. is identified seperately from James Bookout)

Will Fritz's WC testimony concerning his 1st interview at 2:20 on November 22nd

http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/fritz1.htm

Mr. BALL. Who was present when you talked with him?
Mr. FRITZ. At that time, when I first brought him in there there would be Sims and Boyd and probably one or two officers from the office, I am not sure, just who else might have been there. I know those two, I am sure, I believe those two were there. Just about the time I started talking to him, I had just started to question him, I got a phone call from Mr. Shanklin, Gordon Shanklin, agent in charge of the FBI calling for Mr. Bookhout, and I asked Mr. Bookhout to go to pick up the extension.
Mr. BALL. Was Mr. Bookhout there?
Mr. FRITZ. He had just come into the lieutenant's office and Mr. Shanklin asked that Mr. Hosty be in on that questioning, he said he wanted him in there because of Mr. Hosty knowing these people and he had been talking to them and he wanted him in there right then.

So, I got up from my desk and walked over to the lieutenant's office and asked Mr. Bookhout to come in, the reason I asked both of them to come in and Mr. Bookhout is in my office most of every day and works with us in a lot of cases and asked him to come in with Mr. Hosty.
Mr. BALL. So Bookhout and Hosty came into your office?
Mr. FRITZ. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. Was anyone else present?
Mr. FRITZ. I don't remember whether there was anyone else right at that time or not.

2nd Interview November 23rd 10:35 – 11:34

Present Were:

T.J. Kelly

Robert Nash

Grant??

B.O. and myself

Boyd + Hall

B.O. asks about Heidel selective service card – admits having- would not admit signature – wouldn't say why he had it.

Will Fritz's WC testimony concerning the 2nd Interview on November 23rd”

http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/fritz1.htm

Mr. BALL. What do your records show as to the first time you talked to him on November 23?
Mr. FRITZ. Let's see....

Mr. FRITZ. Yes; I have it. I show 10:25 a.m.
Mr. BALL. 10:35?
Mr. FRITZ. 10:25.
Mr. BALL. 10:25 a.m.?
Mr. FRITZ. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. Who was present at this time? Still-look at your notes there.
Mr. FRITZ. I show here Jim Bookhout, Forrest Sorrels, special agent in charge of Secret Service, Robert Nash, who is U.S. marshal there in Dallas, and an officer besides myself.
Mr. BALL. What officer beside yourself?
Mr. FRITZ. I have that in here.

(Mr. Ball never gets back to that in his questioning.)

In Fritz's Interrogation Notes of the 23rd, he says that B.O. asked Oswald about the Hidell ID.

http://www.jfklancer.com/docs.maps/fritz4-5.jpg

He wrote that Oswald admitted having the card, but says that Oswald would not admit to having signed it.

WC testimony of James Bookhout:

http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/bookhout.htm

Mr. STERN - What sort of question would he refuse to answer? Was there any pattern to his refusing?
Mr. BOOKHOUT - Well, now, I am not certain whether this would apply then to this particular interview, the first interview or not, in answering this, but I recall specifically one of the interviews asking him about the Selective Service card which he had in the name of Hidell, and he admitted that he was carrying the card, but that he would not admit that he wrote the signature of Hidell on the card, and at that point stated that he refused to discuss the matter further. I think generally you might say anytime that you asked a question that would be pertinent to the investigation, that would be the type of question he would refuse to discuss.

You can find a copy of James Bookhout's Reports on the Interrogations of Oswald in Appendix XI of the Warren Report here:

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=946#relPageId=643&tab=page

In his Report on the Interrogation of Oswald of the 23rd, he says that Dallas Police Officers F.M. Turner and Billy Senkel were present, but I think he confused them with Officers, Hall and Boyd.

On page 623 of this Appendix, Bookhout talks about Oswald and the Hidell ID card, but does not specifically say who asked Oswald about it.

Kelley's Report of interview on November 23rd

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=29105

Present were:

Jim Bookhout

Will Fritz

Forrest Sorrells

Robert Nash

and three unidentified officers of Will Fritz's detail

(If it were Hall and Boyd who were present, who was the third unidentified officer?)

In his Report of the Interrogation that can be found in Appendix XI of the Warren Report here:

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=946#relPageId=650&tab=page

Kelley says that it was Officers Hall and Boyd who were present, but in this Report, he doesn't mention a third officer. He said that it was Fritz who showed Oswald the Hidell Selective Service card and that Oswald refused to answer questions about the card put to him by Fritz and Bookhout.

Elmer Boyd's WC testimony concerning the 1st Interview:

http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/boyd.htm

Mr. BOYD. Well, we went in and there was a good many people there---I don't recall who all was there--I know we talked to Lieutenant Baker, and he told us that the man that shot Tippit was in the interrogation room and about 5 minutes or so after we were in the office, we took Lee Harvey Oswald out of there and brought him into Captain Fritz' office and he talked to him in there.
Mr. BALL. Tell us about what time of day that was?
Mr. BOYD. I believe it was around 2:20 when we took him out in there; yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. And who was there in the room with Oswald at that time?
Mr. BOYD. With Oswald at that time?
Mr. BALL. You took Oswald into Fritz' office about 2:20?
Mr. BOYD. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. Who was there besides Oswald?
Mr. BOYD. Well, Captain Fritz, and let me see, there was some FBI agents.
Mr. BALL. Do you remember their names?
Mr. BOYD. I know one came in just shortly thereafter and I remember Mr. Bookhout and Mr. Hosty came in right after Ave got in there.
Mr. BALL. And who else was there?
Mr. BOYD. Mr. Hall and Mr. Sims; M. G. Hall is our other partner.
Mr. BALL. He's your other partner?
Mr. BOYD. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. And Sims was there, and was there a Secret Service man in there?
Mr. BOYD. Let me see---I think there was a Secret Service man there, but I don't recall---I don't know what his name was.

Concerning his second interview on November 23rd:

Mr. BALL. What time did you go to work the next day--that would be November 23.
Mr. BOYD. I think I got in around 9 o'clock.
Mr. BALL. Then what did you do?
Mr. BOYD. I arrived at 9:30 and I stayed around the office until 10:25 and Mr. Sims, Hall, and myself went up and got Lee Oswald out of jail again and brought him down to my office.
Mr. BALL. Who told you to do that?
Mr. BOYD. Captain Fritz.
Mr. BALL. What did you do when you brought him down to your office?
Mr. BOYD. Well, Mr. Fritz and the FBI and Mr. Robert Nash, the U.S. marshal, and Mr. Kelley of Secret Service were in Captain Fritz' office at .that time.
Mr. BALL. Who else was in the office?
Mr. BOYD. Let me see---I believe Mr. Sims and Hall, and Captain Fritz were there.
Mr. BALL. Now, Sims said he didn't stay there.
Mr. BOYD. Well, he came back out after we got him down there that's right.
Mr. BALL. You stayed there, didn't you?
Mr. BOYD. Yes.

Report of M.G. Hall's activities on November 23rd:

http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/09/0942-001.gif

At 10:25 AM, November 23, 1963, Sims, Boyd and I checked Oswald out of jail and brought him to Captain Fritz's office for questioning. Cap't Fritz, F.B.I. Agent Bookout, Secret Service agent Kelly. U.S. Marshal Nash, Boyd and I were in the office at this time.

In his WC testimony, Sims also says that he left and Hall stayed for the interrogation.

http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/sims.htm

Mr. SIMS. We checked at 10:25 a.m.--we checked--Boyd and I checked Lee Harvey Oswald out of jail and brought him to Captain Fritz' office for questioning.
Mr. BALL. Who was present at that time?
Mr. SIMS. Let's see, Mr. Bookhout of the FBI and Robert Nash who is the U.S. marshal, Mr. Kelley of the Secret Service.
Mr. BALL. And who else?
Mr. SIMS. And that was all.
Mr. BALL. And yourself?
Mr. SIMS. No, sir; I believe it says here "Boyd and Hall stayed in the office during the interrogation."
Mr. BALL. You weren't in there?
Mr. SIMS. No, sir.

I'm curious about this person with the initials B.O. who was present at the interrogations on both the 22nd and 23rd, and who would have questions about the Hidell Selective Service card.

I've gone through the Personnel Roster in Batchelor's WC Exhibit 5002 here:

http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh19/pdf/WH19_Batchelor_Ex_5002.pdf

and I just don't find a DPD Officer with the initials B.O., especially someone high enough up that he would have access to Will Fritz in Homicide.

Several years ago I had a discussion with someone who suggested that B.O. Was FBI Agent Bardwell Odum, but I don't think so. I've never seen anything that suggested that he was there, and besides, in his WC testimony, Fritz identifies him as “an officer”, suggesting a police officer, rather than “agent” as in FBI agent.

On two occasions, Fritz refers to a Police Officer that he either refuses, or is reluctant, to identify.

So, do we have a Mystery Police Officer?

Steve Thomas

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  • 4 months later...

Steve, I see this is an old topic which has no responses.  If you are still monitoring it, I have a possible answer.  I was looking at a series of photos identifying people associated with the assassination and came across a name that fits.  This post stuck in my mind, as I browse a subject or two each week usually plus new posts.  The name I came across which might be a possibility is Bardwell Odum, FBI.  The same one that had possession of a picture from the CIA of someone possibly associated with Lee H. Oswald (Mexico City photo).  He gave a deposition stating that he tried to get Marina to identify the person, but was blocked by Marguerite, who said Marina was too exhausted to be bothered.

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1 hour ago, Richard Price said:

Steve, I see this is an old topic which has no responses.  If you are still monitoring it, I have a possible answer.  I was looking at a series of photos identifying people associated with the assassination and came across a name that fits.  This post stuck in my mind, as I browse a subject or two each week usually plus new posts.  The name I came across which might be a possibility is Bardwell Odum, FBI.  The same one that had possession of a picture from the CIA of someone possibly associated with Lee H. Oswald (Mexico City photo).  He gave a deposition stating that he tried to get Marina to identify the person, but was blocked by Marguerite, who said Marina was too exhausted to be bothered.

Richard,

 

Thanks for your input, but....

 

I'm embarrassed as all get out.

 

I was looking at something else the other day and was using Fritz's Interrogation notes.

I was looking at his handwritten copy when I noticed that just above the initials B.O., he had written Jame W.

I think that he didn't press down on his pen hard enough, or the paper had a little oil on it or something, and the letter S got dropped off.

Bookhout's name was James W. Bookout.  I think the person who typed Fritz's notes made the same mistake I did. I now believe that what Fritz wrote was, "Jame(s) B.O., thinking that Bookhout was two words, but he didn't know how to spell it; and then wrote in Bookhout sometime later on when he realized that it was just one word.

 

I feel sheepish.

 

Steve Thomas

 

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