How Did They Get Roscoe White To Lean Like That And Not Fall Over?

[Paul Trejo]

Here's another honest photo, a modern one:

Source

The camera is tilted slightly. I see a little barrel distortion.

It appears that the stairway has been replaced.

Sandy, unless we can use the same kind of camera that Marina Oswald used to make the original BYP, we won't have enough similarities for comparison.

Also, when was this photo taken? The Neely Street house was razed to the ground years ago.

Regards,

--Paul

[Andrej Stancak]

If this is the house on 214 West Neely where the backyard pictures have been taken then it should be possible to verify the shadow cast by the man in the discussed backyard photograph.

I now see from images available on internet that it might actually be this house:

The photographs were taken with the man standing with his back towards the dark brown wooden wall and the small white gate.

Well, Andrej, I've been to Dallas and looked for myself.

This is a photograph of the Oswald's old address at 604 Elsbeth Street. This is not the house where the Back Yard Photograph was taken.

This house is around the corner from the next Oswald address at 214 West Neely Street, at which the original Back Yard Photograph was taken.

Also, the house that used to be there on 214 West Neely Street has been razed to the ground some years ago. It no longer exists. There is only an empty lot there, as of late last year, when I was in Dallas.

The duplex on 604 Elsbeth Street is still there -- pretty much in the same shape.

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

Paul:

thanks for your comment which, however, confuses me. I found the following building to be 602-604 Elsbeth:

This should be the duplex mentioned in your message. It has been photographed by Mr. Holga in 2012, and it is in a pretty bad shape.

http://www.mrholga.com/2013/03/602-604-elsbeth-lee-harvey-oswald-slept-here/

The picture of the house I posted, which house may not exist anymore, appears to be, according to a number of pictures available on internet, the 214 West Neely and it does contain the backyard, the small gate and the wooden wall. Thus, I would still believe that the light-colored house is 214 West Neely.

This particular backyard photograph interests me in context of Prayer Man discussion. The stance of Prayer Man bears a striking similarity with the stance of Oswald in this picture: the right hand holds the full weight of the body, the right hand is above the left hand. I found at least two or three pictures of Mr. Oswald with a similar stance. Thus, Mr. Oswald had a habit to assume a specific stance across a variety of situations, which is a minor but still a useful detail supporting the view that Prayer Man and Mr. Oswald were one and the same person.

Edited September 8, 2016 by Andrej Stancak

[Sandy Larsen]

Here's another honest photo, a modern one:

Source

The camera is tilted slightly. I see a little barrel distortion.

It appears that the stairway has been replaced.

Sandy, unless we can use the same kind of camera that Marina Oswald used to make the original BYP, we won't have enough similarities for comparison.

Also, when was this photo taken? The Neely Street house was razed to the ground years ago.

Regards,

--Paul

The article says that the the shot above was taken right where Oswald posed for his shot. But I don't believe it, now that I know the house burned down.

I have a suspicion that the producers of the film rebuilt the backyard structures at the other house the Oswalds lived in, the one Andrej posted the photo of. You can see the the tall fence (or whatever it's supposed to be) and the short picket gate in that photo.

EDIT: Andrej is now disputing what Paul said about the yellow house. So my second paragraph here may be wrong.

Edited September 8, 2016 by Sandy Larsen

[Sandy Larsen]

Here's another honest photo, a modern one:

Source

The camera is tilted slightly. I see a little barrel distortion.

It appears that the stairway has been replaced.

Sandy, unless we can use the same kind of camera that Marina Oswald used to make the original BYP, we won't have enough similarities for comparison.

Also, when was this photo taken? The Neely Street house was razed to the ground years ago.

Regards,

--Paul

Paul,

I'm just pointing out that the experts who said the photos are real are wrong. I'm using science to make my point. It doesn't matter what camera takes the photo to make my point.... the science is independent of camera model.

[Andrej Stancak]

Google Earth still does show 214 West Neely house, and it looks to me compatible with the yellow house. This location is what I need to know as this would allow me to conctruct the house and the backyard and place it exactly on the marked house via Google Earth flat map.

[Paul Trejo]

Google Earth still does show 214 West Neely house, and it looks to me compatible with the yellow house. This location is what I need to know as this would allow me to conctruct the house and the backyard and place it exactly on the marked house via Google Earth flat map.

Andrej, please use Google maps to compare (by requesting directions) between 214 West Neely Street and 604 Elsbeth Street. The BYP site was razed to the ground years ago.

These two Oswald addresses were within walking distance from each other -- less than one block. They should both show on your Google map.

By the way -- the West Neely Street address was a CORNER LOT.

Thanks,

--Paul

Edited September 8, 2016 by Paul Trejo

[Sandy Larsen]

Google Earth still does show 214 West Neely house, and it looks to me compatible with the yellow house. This location is what I need to know as this would allow me to conctruct the house and the backyard and place it exactly on the marked house via Google Earth flat map.

Andrej, please use Google maps to compare (by requesting directions) between 214 West Neely Street and 604 Elsbeth Street. The BYP site was razed to the ground years ago.

These two Oswald addresses were within walking distance from each other -- less than one block. They should both show on your Google map.

By the way -- the West Neely Street address was a CORNER LOT.

Thanks,

--Paul

I checked out Google Maps and it shows the opposite of what you say, Paul. 604 Elsbeth is a corner lot with no house. (It must have burned down.) 214 West Neely s NOT a corner lot and it is the yellow house Andrej posted.

Edited September 8, 2016 by Sandy Larsen

[Andrej Stancak]

Paul:

I think you may have visited Dallas just recently because both Google Maps and Google Earth show 214 West Neely on their Jnauary 2016 pictures. The three pictures allow to identify the yellow house as 214 West Neely.

There are actually two appartments in the house, 212 and 214. The door to the right was 214, the appartment rented by Mr. Oswald.

[Ray Mitcham]

Google Earth still does show 214 West Neely house, and it looks to me compatible with the yellow house. This location is what I need to know as this would allow me to conctruct the house and the backyard and place it exactly on the marked house via Google Earth flat map.

Andrej, please use Google maps to compare (by requesting directions) between 214 West Neely Street and 604 Elsbeth Street. The BYP site was razed to the ground years ago.

These two Oswald addresses were within walking distance from each other -- less than one block. They should both show on your Google map.

By the way -- the West Neely Street address was a CORNER LOT.

Thanks,

--Paul

Paul, I think you have got the two addresses the wrong way round. 214 Neeley Street is a mid house, still standing, whilst the 604 Elsbeth Street address was a corner house and has been razed.

[Michael Cross]

I concur. The yellow house pictured is 214 Neely, clearly visible on Google Earth, and that sure appears to be the back of the gate and fence in the photos.

[Michael Cross]

You can go back in time with Google earth. Here's a 2012 shot of the gate/fence before the new corner building was erected:

https://www.google.com/maps/@32.7506862,-96.825624,3a,37.5y,235.32h,91.81t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1smIro4skQXaVrjvdeko95kQ!2e0!5s20121201T000000!7i13312!8i6656

<iframe src="https://www.google.com/maps/embed?pb=!1m0!3m2!1sen!2sus!4v1473354793066!6m8!1m7!1sGkSBBKGbAudP6j9w1YcdJw!2m2!1d32.750686251203!2d-96.82550636096838!3f242.23587332046756!4f-2.764399562492599!5f3.325193203789971"width="600" height="450" frameborder="0" style="border:0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Edited September 8, 2016 by Michael Cross

[Paul Trejo]

Aha. It appears that I had reversed the two addresses. I now think that y'all are correct. Thanks for clearing that up for me.

By the way, it's amazing that Google Maps can go backwards in time to 2012.

--Paul

Edited September 8, 2016 by Paul Trejo

[Paul Trejo]

The picture of the house I posted, which house may not exist anymore, appears to be, according to a number of pictures available on internet, the 214 West Neely and it does contain the backyard, the small gate and the wooden wall. Thus, I would still believe that the light-colored house is 214 West Neely.

This particular backyard photograph interests me in context of Prayer Man discussion. The stance of Prayer Man bears a striking similarity with the stance of Oswald in this picture: the right hand holds the full weight of the body, the right hand is above the left hand. I found at least two or three pictures of Mr. Oswald with a similar stance. Thus, Mr. Oswald had a habit to assume a specific stance across a variety of situations, which is a minor but still a useful detail supporting the view that Prayer Man and Mr. Oswald were one and the same person.

Yes, Andrej, I agree that you were correct about the Neely house location.

As for the "stance" of Roscoe White in the Backyard Photographs (BYP) -- I'm glad you came back to the theme of this thread.

I suspect that many people stand that way -- with their entirely weight on their back leg. According to Jack White, the actual subject, Roscoe White, always stood that way. That was one of his clues. The clincher for Jack White was the lumpy right wrist in the photo, because Roscoe White actually had an injury to his right wrist that appeared exactly that way -- while Oswald did not.

Everybody for decades has known that the chin in the BYP does not belong to Oswald. Jack White goes further and says that the neck is different from Oswald's neck -- but is identical to Roscoe White's neck. Same with the shoulders.

The stance, however, is crucial, because we have no other photo of Oswald (to the best of my knowledge) that shows Oswald standing like that.

Now -- if this is indeed related to Prayer Man, then what is the evidence that Prayer Man might also be Roscoe White?

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

Edited September 8, 2016 by Paul Trejo

[Thomas Graves]

Paul:

I think you may have visited Dallas just recently because both Google Maps and Google Earth show 214 West Neely on their Jnauary 2016 pictures. The three pictures allow to identify the yellow house as 214 West Neely.

There are actually two appartments in the house, 212 and 214. The door to the right was 214, the appartment rented by Mr. Oswald.

On my Google Earth, the most recent same overhead view has "Imagery Date: 4/27/2016"

-- Tommy

[Paul Trejo]

So, just let me give an overview of my opinion on this point.

IMHO Roscoe White was the body in the BYP, and the face of Oswald was pasted in. The same face was pasted in four different poses, while the body was slightly turned, so we know that the face of Oswald was pasted in.

Now -- the key questions are WHO, WHERE, WHEN, HOW and WHY.

In my opinion, Oswald did it. Oswald did it at Jaggars-Chiles-Stovall. Oswald did it in March 1963, at the same time that he made his Fake ID for Alek J. Hidel -- on the same camera equipment.

There were four different BYP found -- and yet Marina Oswald consistently said that she herself snapped the camera only ONCE. I believe her.

Also, when Oswald came out of the house there at Neely Street, he was wearing all black -- which was amusing to Marina, because Oswald never wore all black before. But wearing all black was important to the FORGERY process.

This brings us to HOW. At some other time, Oswald brought Roscoe White to his house on Neely Street, wearing the same black outfit. Oswald himself took four more poses of Roscoe White in the exact same location, but in four different poses.

Oswald used exactly the same camera -- so that is what fooled the FBI later.

(All this occurred before Oswald was fired from Jaggars-Chiles-Stovall, perhaps just because of this abuse of company equipment).

Anyway, Oswald took the face from the photo that Marina snapped, and pasted it as carefully as he could onto the four photographs that he snapped of Roscoe White.

This brings us to WHY. Well, we know that Roscoe White himself got one of the poses. Also, Oswald signed one and gave one of the poses to George De Mohrenschildt. Also, Oswald sent one of them to "The Militant" magazine. Also, Michael Paine told Dan Rather in 1993 that he saw a BYP on April 2nd, 1963.

WHY? One minor reason was vanity, in order to clown about a possible assassination of General Walker -- which Oswald believed would please his new wealthy friends in Dallas, namely, George De Mohrenschildt, Volkmar Schmidt, Michael Paine and their engineer yuppie pals. (Yes, Oswald did believe he could get away with it, and he consistently lied to Marina to ensure her ignorance.)

Another minor reason was just to have fun with photography equipment, because Oswald was rather skilled at it (as proved by the fact that he fooled the FBI).

But the main reason was this -- Plausible Deniability. He knew -- this young 23 year old ex-Marine -- that if he was ever confronted by the Police with this photo, he could quickly say, "That photo is a FAKE! That is my face pasted onto somebody else's body! I know photography very well, and I can prove it!"

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

Edited September 9, 2016 by Paul Trejo