Who was Jack Ruby?

[Joseph McBride]

De Antonio said in an interview that most of the fear he encountered from people in Dallas centered

around the Tippit shooting. I once interviewed de Antonio, whom I greatly respected, on Los Angeles TV about his film on the Weather Underground;

he asked for me to do that interview because of my coverage in Daily Variety of the film and the controversy surrounding it.

To my surprise, he told me Variety always gave him what he considered the fairest coverage of his films, because he noted that we

reviewed films factually and carefully described their contents, unlike other publications. We at Variety felt at that time (before Peter Bart

ruined the paper) that we were writing factual reviews for the benefit of the industry and exhibitors and telling what was in the films

as well as expressing our opinions about them, grounded in facts. Nevertheless, the old newsman Sam Fuller in the seventies described Variety

to me as "that f-cking rag you love so much."

Edited February 25, 2020 by Joseph McBride

[Dan Doyle]

7 hours ago, Joseph McBride said:

Ruby matches the description of the Tippit gunman given by Acquilla Clemmons: 
"He was kinda chunky, he was kinda heavy, he wasn't a very big man. He was [a] kinda short guy."

As we know, she said that man had an accomplice, tall and thin. 

Numerous candidates have been mentioned as the Tippit gunman or gunmen, and I explore

some of those in INTO THE NIGHTMARE. I explore what Harry Olsen

was doing in Oak Cliff, how late that night he egged on (ordered?) Ruby to shoot Oswald,

and how he was fired by Chief Curry and left Dallas. 

I greatly admire Mrs. Clemmons for her

bravery and honesty. After doing the filmed interview with Mark Lane and Emile

de Antonio, she was never seen again, unfortunately. She had been threatened

by the police if she kept talking. She gave some press interviews before that as well.

In Helen Markham’s interviews and WC testimony  she said Tippit’s killer was short, stocky and had wavy, bushy hair.  Once I saw a photo of Ruby’s short-term roommate, George Senator (I believe he moved in at the beginning of November ‘63) I did a little more research on him. I read his WC testimony.  It was sooo bad, soo disjointed that he was sent away and told to come back once he felt that he could testify cogently.

 

 

[Joe Bauer]

So much has been said about Ruby's shooting of Oswald being an unplanned, impulsive, overly distraught emotion driven act of murderous insanity made possible only because of incredibly brief time frame window of opportunity luck.

How if Ruby had arrived just 3 to 4 minutes later to the transfer scene, he would have missed out on his Oswald whacking chance.

Let us imagine Ruby getting into that basement press crowd earlier than he did. Even 5 to 10 minutes earlier.

I propose that Ruby would have been recognized by at least one or more police security in that crowd if he had done so. Ruby's policeman friend William "Blackie" Harrison was within just a couple to a few feet ( arms length ) from Ruby when Ruby bolted out to shoot Oswald.

Harrison told the Warren Commission he was looking around during his time standing on the front line of the press crowd that morning both before and up to the time Oswald was brought in.

And yet,  Harrison said he never saw Ruby standing close to him or entering the basement at any time up until Ruby charged past him to get a point blank shot into Oswald's gut.

If Ruby had been hanging around and moving into the close front edge of the basement press crowd for 5 or 10 minutes before the shooting, chances are very likely Ruby would have been noticed ( so many policemen in that crowd knew Ruby personally ) and probably confronted as to his presence there not being allowed ...imo.

Heck, even career newspaper writer Seth Kantor might have noticed Ruby in the crowd again as he did at Parkland Hospital the early afternoon of 11,22,1963.

 Kantor was in the Dallas PD basement during this whole time. And Kantor later stated under oath, that even with his press badges visible it was harder for him to get into the DPD basement than it was for Ruby.

My point being that Ruby would NOT HAVE WANTED to arrive in the super crowded and guarded Dallas PD basement "too early" for these reasons. 

A last minute entrance just before the chaotic Oswald arrival with a distracting press crush shouting and popping flash bulbs would obviously make Ruby's presence there much more unnoticed. 

Just a thought.

 

Quote

 

 

Edited February 27, 2020 by Joe Bauer

[James DiEugenio]

You can see the post office from what was the alley way behind the police building.

All that needed to happen was to send out someone to signal Ruby that Oswald was coming down.

Ruby was monitoring the situation that morning and about three witnesses, maybe four, saw him inside the building that morning at two different time intervals in two different locations.

Officer Patrick Dean flunked his polygraph test, even though he wrote his own questions.  He refused to appear before the HSCA.

In looking at the raw films of Evidence of  Revision, you can see Ruby hiding behind Harrison. Its very hard to buy that Harrison was not aware of him.

 

[Ron Bulman]

On 2/24/2020 at 12:59 PM, James DiEugenio said:

Scheim's story about Zoppi is really interesting if its true.

All but 1 of the end note reference numbers in this portion trace back to "HAH", per the key, House Assassination Hearings (E.G. HAH 5H 170), or Hansen Exhibit 1, or the C. Ray Hall Exhibit 3.  I don't know if the latter two exhibits are from the HSCA or Warren Commission although aren't the WR exhibits referred to as CE's?

[Ron Bulman]

On 2/24/2020 at 12:56 PM, Larry Hancock said:

Ron, if you have SWHT I go through the changes in Ruby's mood in considerable detail over that afternoon and the rest of the weekend.  Basically it starts with Ruby being interested in the motorcade, watching it pass with his friend there on Main and going back to the DMN.  However from that point on, as he begins to hear of the attack, of president being injured and then his death he ends up tossing his cookies at his sisters, only to talk with Gruber in LA and then move into a totally different mood and role.  Its another one of those situational things where a look at just one incident during one time slice can actually be misleading in light of the overall story.

I didn't look at all your references to Ruby but a few things stand out. 

It says they (an IRS informant as opposed to FBI?) observed the presidential motorcade pass the corner of Main and Houston.  Immediately afterwards , Ruby left hurriedly in the direction of the Dallas Morning News offices.  So he didn't stick around and actually watch the assassination?  Another source says the informant said they watched it from the Postal Annex (its parking lot?).  That he took off for the DMN offices immediately after the assassination.  In either case he seems to be in a hurry to get back to the DMN and be seen there.  I don't think the stories are mutually exclusive, so much is muddled in all this, it's hard to make definite conclusions.  If they watched the parade round Main on to Houston from the Postal Annex parking lot, then Ruby hurriedly took off toward the DMN, might he have paused after JFK's limo rounded from Houston to Elm to look back for a minute?  Especially at the sound of shots one might think.  I know, again, speculation.  Based on reason?

Then there's the part about Ruby's only out of state calls the afternoon of 11/22 were to one of his sisters in Chicago and Alex/Al Gruber in LA. They went back to Chicago, like Jack and John Rosselli..  Did Gruber tell him something that made him toss his cookies in the toilet as soon as he arrived at sister Eva Grant's in Dallas that afternoon, per her?  That story gets deeper.  Seen once in 10 years, Ruby's going to send one of his beloved dogs to Al ???

Then you mention the Creep.  Not Nixon's reelection committee in 1972.  But a man so named by the crew of the power/antenna truck of WBAP.  I really need to dig first for backup but here goes from an aging memory.  WBAP was innovative, first tv station west of the Mississippi.  By 1963 they could broadcast live  to the station using cables from the back of a truck/van to the camera, only station around that could.  The cables went up to the third floor Friday night and Saturday.  Sunday morning they moved the cables along with the big heavy camera stands to the basement.  In the process I believe at least three of them between them observed the creep hanging around outside their truck, once looking in, maybe even asking a question.  It's been posited Ruby snuck in a door left open from the basement of city hall, easily accessed from the front door.  Also that his legs can be seen behind the far side of the WBAP camera stand being wheeled into place shortly before Oswald is shot in a video.  The team from WBAP that named him saw the creep murder Oswald on their monitors as they broadcast it live.  A dubious first ever.  But their part of the story was ignored, buried.  

 

[Larry Hancock]

I'll be detailing the view I've reached on Ruby in the Thesis paper (almost book length) that I intend to publish via MFF and my own web site this summer. The points you picked out are key to my thinking that Ruby was "used" as he said, but initially in a largely unknowing role (as far as understanding the president would be killed) much as he had been earlier in acting as a courier for McWillie in assisting the effort to release Trafficante from jail in Cuba...long story.  He was on Elm Street just briefly to watch the president - and Jackie - pass, not as part of the assassination.

He did not anticipate what happened and as he learned about he became shocked and literally sick to his stomach over the implications. The call to Gruber (which we know about) and other files using payphones and other phones that were not investigated turned his whole involvement in another direction (and depending on the exact timing contributed to his physical problem and to an intense and sudden depression - a change easily noted from the various folks who interacted with him during the course of the afternoon). By late afternoon his role began to dramatically change (he had no choice; he knew the rules and he did love his sister). That change and his very suspicions activities had to be ignored by the WC...and it was necessary to let the two investigators they had looking into him in Dallas go (their only two real field investigators) as what they might have found (and what Jim Kothe liked did) very dangerous to the official story. 

[Ron Bulman]

I was just reading Today In History.  1964, Jack Ruby sentenced to die in the electric chair.  And, I didn't know this, 1967, JFK's body moved to permanent grave site (after over 3 years in a temporary one).

[David Andrews]

4 hours ago, Ron Bulman said:

I was just reading Today In History.  1964, Jack Ruby sentenced to die in the electric chair.  And, I didn't know this, 1967, JFK's body moved to permanent grave site (after over 3 years in a temporary one).

There's a back thread with pix of RFK and McNamara at the midnight re-interment.

Edited March 15, 2020 by David Andrews

[Chuck Schwartz]

Larry, when Ruby was correcting the Dallas Police in the Dallas Police station on what organization LHO was a part (re: Cuba) of , doesn't that say Ruby knew what the narrative would be for the lone gunman?

[Larry Hancock]

That's a good point Chuck, while Ruby had been very much in touch with Cuban affairs as early as the revolutionary period of 1959, that's the sort of distinction that would have escaped most people in Dallas where there had been no real media coverage of the FPCC as their had been courtesy of Oswald in New Orleans.

However its very possible that when Ruby was brought into his role some scenario related to Cuba was brought up,  given Roselli's own history with Cuba and working with the CIA that would have been an easy sell. Its easy to see Jack being played that way, he would have loved being recruited into something secret - much as he apparently had enjoyed being an FBI source for a time back in 59 or being a courier into CUBA.  Its easy to speculate that he was told there was going to be a protest, a demonstration, perhaps even a provocation that would be targeting the FPCC. 

That would map well to his remark about going to watch the fireworks, typical Ruby, bragging about being an insider - but certainly not implicating himself in an assassination.  Having a bit of knowledge and having played a minor role would explain why his behavior changed so dramatically that afternoon, as he realized just what he had done and how he had been played.

 

[James DiEugenio]

If you combine the fireworks remarks with the Nicky Nichols card of 11/21/63 and then the weird status of the Zoppi alibi, it shows how little has been done on Ruby.

I mean the Kantor book should have just been only a Cliff Notes version, the way Melanson always characterized his Spy Saga book.

But to my knowledge, there have been no further full volumes devoted to Ruby since.  

I can see why, since its not an easy job.

Edited March 15, 2020 by James DiEugenio

[Chuck Schwartz]

Another aspect of Ruby was his going to the radio station owned by McLendon(?), who was  friends with DAP, right after the assassination- could that be where Ruby took direction from (re: killing LHO)?

[James DiEugenio]

Sure as heck is interesting is it not?

DIdn't McLendon join the ARIO later?

There is also the point of who's idea it was to wire the money that morning.  And why it was so necessary to do so at that time.  I mean the whole world was transfixed by what was happening with Oswald and we are supposed to believe that the Carlins' landlord is demanding rent?  It turns out that was not the case at all.  He never did place a demand for rent.  (The JFK Assassination: The Evidence Today, p. 226). And in going through the Carlin couple's testimony, the weight of the evidence is that it was Ruby's idea to wire the money that morning.  

It is  obvious that the Carlins were pounded on by the FBI and the Secret Service to get their story straight for the Commission.  Namely that somehow it was urgent that they be wired the money that morning and it was their  idea that it be done, and not Ruby's.

How intent were the Feds in beating this story into the couple?  Karen was interviewed an amazing seven times.  They would call Bruce in the middle of the night!  He lost a job over it. (ibid)

WIth the help of Greg Parker, I did a lot of work on this.  I am convinced the Sunday morning wire was Ruby's idea, and I am also convinced Ruby did not come down the Main Street ramp. Finally, I also am convinced that Ruby was tipped off as to when Oswald was coming down, and he then had help getting inside the DPD from the back door.  Patrick Dean lied his head off about this issue. And if you watch the fascinating Evidence of Revision, you can see Ruby is hiding behind Blackie Harrison before he springs forward.  I don't know if the double horn honks are a part of it, but the timing is really interesting.  And its clear that in some retapings of the original NBC footage, that they were cut to one honk or completely eliminated.

[Ron Bulman]

On 2/28/2020 at 8:02 AM, Larry Hancock said:

I'll be detailing the view I've reached on Ruby in the Thesis paper (almost book length) that I intend to publish via MFF and my own web site this summer. The points you picked out are key to my thinking that Ruby was "used" as he said, but initially in a largely unknowing role (as far as understanding the president would be killed) much as he had been earlier in acting as a courier for McWillie in assisting the effort to release Trafficante from jail in Cuba...long story.  He was on Elm Street just briefly to watch the president - and Jackie - pass, not as part of the assassination.

He did not anticipate what happened and as he learned about he became shocked and literally sick to his stomach over the implications. The call to Gruber (which we know about) and other files using payphones and other phones that were not investigated turned his whole involvement in another direction (and depending on the exact timing contributed to his physical problem and to an intense and sudden depression - a change easily noted from the various folks who interacted with him during the course of the afternoon). By late afternoon his role began to dramatically change (he had no choice; he knew the rules and he did love his sister). That change and his very suspicions activities had to be ignored by the WC...and it was necessary to let the two investigators they had looking into him in Dallas go (their only two real field investigators) as what they might have found (and what Jim Kothe liked did) very dangerous to the official story. 

Regarding Ruby, Oswald and the current thread about a fake assassination attempt, it makes me wonder...  if both of them Thought it was such to provoke JFK to attack Cuba, as some have alluded to, might they both have realized the implications when it really happened, and their actions have been a (logical?) result?