Who was Jack Ruby?

[Pete Mellor]

10 hours ago, Ron Bulman said:

Pete, please let Steve know that at least one owner of No Case To Answer looks forward to purchasing a copy of whatever might come of his Father's final work.

No problem Ron, I will pass that message on...and I'm sure you will not be the only person interested in Ian Griggs' manuscript.

Just yesterday I received a pile of Ian's JFK books, among them the Jack Ruby book by Wills & Demaris that you read recently, also a signed copy of Bill Sloan's 'Breaking the Silence' and other little gems to add to my collection.

[Ron Bulman]

12 hours ago, Pete Mellor said:

No problem Ron, I will pass that message on...and I'm sure you will not be the only person interested in Ian Griggs' manuscript.

Just yesterday I received a pile of Ian's JFK books, among them the Jack Ruby book by Wills & Demaris that you read recently, also a signed copy of Bill Sloan's 'Breaking the Silence' and other little gems to add to my collection.

I know I've dissed the Wills & Demaris book for it's Oswald did it and Ruby did him for Jackie and the kids dogma but there are tidbits in there from a historical perspective.  I don't want to give any more away if your about to read it but as an E. G. . . .  I'd gotten the impression from other reading that Assistant D A Bill Alexander was shall we say a redneck Henry Wade acolyte.  The latter part of the book brings this home.  Ruby attorney Joe Tonahill: (he's a) "tarantula eyed one hundred percent pure lier".

[Ron Bulman]

https://www.gettyimages.com/detail/news-photo/jack-ruby-stands-with-two-of-his-dancers-outside-his-news-photo/576877640?adppopup=true

I've been trying to figure out the significance of the notations at the bottom of this picture.  Ex. No. 5300-D.  Senator, Geo.  Deposition, Washington D.C. 4-22-64.

Ex. No 5300-D.  Armstrong, A. Dallas 4/14/64. 

Why did Ruby bother to pose laughing with two of his strippers in front to the Enrique Press and Shine shop next door to the Colony Club seen in the picture, which was next door to the Carousel?   Who were Senator Geo. and Armstrong.  Why did this matter in 1964?   

[Dan Rice]

7 hours ago, Ron Bulman said:

Who were Senator Geo. and Armstrong.  Why did this matter in 1964?   

George Senator was Ruby's room mate.  I'm not sure about Armstrong.

[Steve Thomas]

2 hours ago, Daniel Rice said:

George Senator was Ruby's room mate.  I'm not sure about Armstrong.

Daniel,

That would be Andrew Armstrong. He was more or less in charge of the Carousel when Ruby was not around.

You can read his WC testimony here:

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/armstro1.htm

Mr. HUBERT. What was your job around there?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. Well, at first it was just bartending and then it got to be--it was bartending, then it got to be straightening the place up a little bit because there was another man that came in, Howard Haynes.
Mr. HUBERT. Howard Haynes?

Mr. ARMSTRONG. Yes, but he always did sort of a half job, and so then it got to be where I spent most of the afternoon there just taking phone calls and reservations and things like that, and taking care of all of the buying and things like that.

Steve Thomas

[Ron Bulman]

20 hours ago, Ron Bulman said:

https://www.gettyimages.com/detail/news-photo/jack-ruby-stands-with-two-of-his-dancers-outside-his-news-photo/576877640?adppopup=true

I've been trying to figure out the significance of the notations at the bottom of this picture.  Ex. No. 5300-D.  Senator, Geo.  Deposition, Washington D.C. 4-22-64.

Ex. No 5300-D.  Armstrong, A. Dallas 4/14/64. 

Why did Ruby bother to pose laughing with two of his strippers in front to the Enrique Press and Shine shop next door to the Colony Club seen in the picture, which was next door to the Carousel?   Who were Senator Geo. and Armstrong.  Why did this matter in 1964?   

Shortly after I wrote this I thought it's George Senator not Senator Geo. who.  Then I thought, didn't Ruby have an employee named Armstrong.  Thanks Daniel and Steve.  I guess the dates and cities refer to Senators Warren Omission testimony and Armstrong's deposition.  So EX, No 5300-D would mean the picture was a WC Exhibit?  Why would their names/dates be referenced on it?  Were they questioned about it?  Why?  Why were Ruby and his strippers photographed in front of the Enrique Press and Shine/Colony Club entrance?  Just a lark?  This is a "sister" picture taken I think the same night in front of the Carousel, same girls, clothing, lighting.

I was trying to put the Carousel into perspective from pictures available on line.  I know it was across from the Adolphus Hotel, almost a story within itself.  From what I can tell I think facing the Carousel, it was over a BBQ joint.  To it's left was a garage where Ruby parked and used the phone at times, maybe the one he encountered a cop and one of his strippers late on the night of 11/22/63 or early morning of 11/23.  To the left of it was the entrance to his competitor Abe Weinstein's Colony Club.  To the left of it was Enrique Press and Shine.

 https://www.bing.com/images/search?view=detailV2&ccid=U14dYVgE&id=56C5DE757371F200ECC4547C74B09268C2FE36CB&thid=OIP.U14dYVgETr-s-DztkPWZHAHaE8&mediaurl=http%3a%2f%2f2.bp.blogspot.com%2f-LU5LYMfwJA0%2fUpCm3y07AxI%2fAAAAAAAAJ5Q%2fgYENLnbcKU8%2fs1600%2fruby_041c.jpg&exph=401&expw=600&q=carousel+club+pictures&simid=608004551119930454&ck=A60E3D3F1B0B66555A38639D67B70F5E&selectedIndex=21&qpvt=carousel+club+pictures&FORM=IRPRST&ajaxhist=0

https://www.bing.com/images/search?view=detailV2&ccid=rF2NRTQ3&id=DB5352E04FC49180C57CD6664F4960BF823C0FE5&thid=OIP.rF2NRTQ3CSvysu_ZUjwPKAHaEx&mediaurl=https%3a%2f%2fpbs.twimg.com%2fmedia%2fDX3imGpW4AA3Vc9.jpg&exph=697&expw=1080&q=carousel+club+pictures&simid=608036922386746307&ck=CDE57E060036EDB0B6DA951D0CE4C08F&selectedIndex=68&FORM=IRPRST&ajaxhist=0

[Steve Thomas]

8 hours ago, Ron Bulman said:

Shortly after I wrote this I thought it's George Senator not Senator Geo. who.  Then I thought, didn't Ruby have an employee named Armstrong.

Ron,

I have often wondered if Andrew Armstrong and Charles Givens knew each other.

Armstrong had been busted for selling marijuana, and Givens had been busted for possession.

One could suspect that the social circle of two black guys using marijuana in the early 1960's would be pretty small.

Steve Thomas

 

[Ron Bulman]

13 hours ago, Steve Thomas said:

Ron,

I have often wondered if Andrew Armstrong and Charles Givens knew each other.

Armstrong had been busted for selling marijuana, and Givens had been busted for possession.

One could suspect that the social circle of two black guys using marijuana in the early 1960's would be pretty small.

Steve Thomas

 

That is interesting Steve.  I'd read Givens had previous drug charges, didn't know for what.  Thought that might have been held over his head to say what was wanted.  I didn't know about Armstrong selling weed though.  I've read stories about people in Texas getting 5-10 for a joint or two in the 60's.  A black man selling it then?  In general they would have thrown him in the slammer and thrown away the key.

Which makes me wonder if you or others remember the names in a story that comes to mind.  I believe it was a FBI interview around 1955 of a young lady who moved to Dallas with her boyfriend who was a dope dealer.  Asking around about connections they were told to see Jack ruby for clearance so to speak.  Seems like maybe he ended up doing a few runs to the border, Mexico or elsewhere.  Ring any bells for anyone?

So I wonder, if in 1962 some west coast beatnik comes into the Carousel, and Ruby doesn't throw him down the stairs immediately...  Say he has a little cash and tips the waitresses and strippers well, is polite to them, not loud or boisterous.  Jack stops by and says hi I'm jack Ruby the owner, welcome to Dallas.  Glad to meet you says the visitor, who whispers Jay told me you might know where I could get a couple of Joints.  See Andy at the bar.

[Ron Bulman]

Eli's coming.

 

[Ron Bulman]

Next comes Woodrow.

[Pete Mellor]

On 8/1/2020 at 1:34 AM, Ron Bulman said:

I know I've dissed the Wills & Demaris book for it's Oswald did it and Ruby did him for Jackie and the kids dogma but there are tidbits in there from a historical perspective.  I don't want to give any more away if your about to read it but as an E. G. . . .  I'd gotten the impression from other reading that Assistant D A Bill Alexander was shall we say a redneck Henry Wade acolyte.  The latter part of the book brings this home.  Ruby attorney Joe Tonahill: (he's a) "tarantula eyed one hundred percent pure lier".

Cheers Ron!  Just finished Peterr Kross' 'JFK: The French Connection'.  Willis & Demaris are next up.

[Paul Brancato]

Pete - I hadn’t heard of that book, written by a fellow Bronx native. Looking at Amazon reviews leaves me wondering if I could get through it. Grammatical errors are off putting. What did you think? 

[Pete Mellor]

7 hours ago, Paul Brancato said:

Pete - I hadn’t heard of that book, written by a fellow Bronx native. Looking at Amazon reviews leaves me wondering if I could get through it. Grammatical errors are off putting. What did you think? 

Paul, I learned of this book from the Bibliography of another book......that's the way it goes often.  Everything I read I review on Goodreads.  Here is my review of this one.  Ok the text is a mess, but nothing made the info unintelligible.

I have to say that I was very pleasantly surprised at the level of quality research that has been documented in Peter Kross' 'JFK: The French Connection', published in 2012.
Any long term reader of Kennedy's assassination in Dallas will be aware of the mysterious French assassin Soutre/Mertz/Sarti figure reportedly deported to either Mexico or Canada from Texas in the immediate aftermath of 22nd November '63, from Fort Worth-Dallas. Yet, I have never come across such in-depth work in a comprehensive and chronological format as is available in this book. Kross has latched onto the past research of a 'French Connection' achieved in the 1980's by Steve Rivele with the assistance of such notables in this field of inquiry as Bud Fensterwald and Jim Lesar from the Assassination Archives and Research Centre in Washington D.C.
Though I was also relatively conversant with the Patrice Lumumba killing in the Congo in '61, I found the coverage of CIA's assassination agents QJ/WIN and WI/ROUGUE/1 to be original and fascinating.
There was no mention of Michael Collins Piper's assertion in his book 'Final Judgment' (2005)....."We do know that James Jesus Angleton had an interesting guest in his office at Langley on the day of the assassination. That was the Mossad's French ally SDECE Colonel Georges deLannurien."
Mention has to be made of this publications lack of a text editor. There is hardly a page in the book that does not contain spelling errors and assorted typos. It also lacks an Index, which I like to find in any book of this nature. Adventures Unlimited Press who published this, have spoiled an otherwise intriguing collection of information. The publishers also advertise other publications in their catalogue which include such topics as fake moon landings, UFO's, The Giza Death Star and more. I did get a sinking feeling when I first encountered the book, but Kross' work certainly does not stand with the others.

 

 

 

[Steve Thomas]

29 minutes ago, Pete Mellor said:

Any long term reader of Kennedy's assassination in Dallas will be aware of the mysterious French assassin Soutre/Mertz/Sarti figure

Pete,

I have come across no evidence that Jean-Rene Souetre was an assassin.

Steve Thomas

[Pete Mellor]

18 minutes ago, Steve Thomas said:

Pete,

I have come across no evidence that Jean-Rene Souetre was an assassin.

Steve Thomas

Alleged plans of Secret Army Organization in Portugal for post deGaulle takeover in France.  Report #DB-3/655,207. 25th June 1963.  This document ends with comment on Souetre.  "Information from both press and official French sources indicate that the Souetre is the name of a former French army captain who escaped from a detention camp in 1961.  Subsequently to his escape he was alleged to have been involved in an assassination attempt against deGaulle.  Souetre was born 15 October 1930 in the Gironde Department of France.

But....it's a tangled web of course.  Souetre aka Michael Mertz aka Michael Roux.  Possible candidate for QJ/WIN or WI/ROGUE/1?   Who knows?  As you say Steve, solid evidence is absent.

Michael Collins Piper claims that SDECE Colonel DeLannurien was with Angleton in Langley on 22nd Nov. '63.  Is that really true?  

An article written by Louis Assemat-Tessandier, published in the paper Cote-Basque Soir of Bayonne.  In the article Louis states that he was in Montreal in January 1964 and met another Frenchman who had recently been to Texas, gone to Mexico, and then came to Montreal.  The Frenchman according to Louis was a young officer from Algeria who wandered back and forth between the three OAS centres in the Western Hemisphere, i.e. Montreal, Mexico City and Rio.  Louis would not reveal the Frenchman's name, but he introduced himself as a former paratroop officer in Algeria and said that he had arrived that morning by plane from Mexico City.  He said that he had been in Dallas at the time of Kennedy's murder but had been expelled by the American Police 18 hours later.

How credible is an assassin arriving in Montreal and spilling beans to a news hound?  Lots of smoke though, just need to touch the flames!