Who was Jack Ruby?

[Paul Trejo]

It seems more and more unlikely to me that Ruby's involvement began when, after Oswald's arrest, he:

1 - got religious and, on his own initiative decided at some point in the next two days to kill Oswald for the reasons he stated.

2 - he was told by someone, presumably a mobster but could have been anyone whose offer he could not refuse, to kill Oswald.

As an alternative to these two choices I'd like to propose a 3rd option - that Ruby was already involved in the assassination in some way. If this was the case we could safely eliminate his first explanation for killing LHO. The second explanation might still be true. But once we presume the 3rd option it opens the door to other possibilities. One is that Ruby's dramatic act might have been taken because if Oswald had lived it might have been Ruby who paid the price for what Oswald knew. Self preservation is a powerful motivator.

We have not given enough attention to the idea that Ruby was part of the conspiracy. I've seen the eye witness accounts that suggest he might have been a shooter, that he might have killed Tippett, or placed the magic bullet on the stretcher. What other ideas are out there? What do you suppose was the truth behind Ruby's murder of Oswald?

Paul B.,

This accords with my thinking, with only one variation. It wasn't a mobster who influenced Jack Ruby to murder LHO -- it was rogue members of the Dallas Police Department -- including Roscoe White.

Their motive for pressuring Jack Ruby was that LHO was a "cop-killer." Their promises to Jack Ruby included that he would "get off easy" or that he would "be a hero," at least to them.

Jack Ruby was accustomed to catering to the Dallas Police -- that was common for any pimp. And only the Dallas Police could make it possible for Jack Ruby to be in the DPD basement that morning.

This is the scenario that Seth Kantor provides in his 1978 book, Who Was Jack Ruby? Seth Kantor was a news reporter who knew Jack Ruby personally. Have you read his book?

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

[Jim Hargrove]

All of those reports, IMHO, are merely "mistaken identity" reports. Every murder case has several "mistaken identity" reports, and murder cases involving famous people have many times the normal. The murder of JFK has provided so many cases of "mistaken identity" that a fiction writer like John Armstrong could weave them all into a science-fiction scenario like "Harvey and Lee".

But that's what happens when the CIA-did-it theorists fail to find closure after fifty years. Plain nonsense.

And by your own admission, all we have is your humble opinion. Your humble opinion that several witnesses who may have seen Ruby give Oswald a gun at the Book Depository shouldn’t even be questioned, because in your humble opinion they’re mistaken. And your humble opinion that a restaurant waitress who knew Jack Ruby for many years and thought she saw him sitting with Oswald the morning of the assassination and said her life was threatened a few days later shouldn’t be investigated more fully because, in your humble opinion, she was mistaken.

Why wouldn’t the FBI investigate those allegations? Too busy confiscating Oswald’s teen-aged employment and school records?

You seem willing to cast blame almost everywhere… Dallas police, the Mob, right-wing operatives… but never the CIA. Why is that?

One more time….

Why did the CIA protect Jack Ruby’s Cuban gunrunning activities?

Do you really think it was a coincidence that Ruby communicated so frequently with Gordon McClendon, David Atlee Phillips’ close associate?

Edited October 12, 2016 by Jim Hargrove

[Chris Newton]

And I asked her name. Her name was Christine, I think. I said, "I wanted to bring some sandwiches."

She said, "My mother already brought sandwiches."

And I said, "I wanted to go there too." And that was the end of this little girls conversation with myself.

So why did Ruby need to go to KLIF so badly?

Forget the sandwiches, they are an excuse. His testimony was "I wanted to go there too.".

I just listened to several hours of KLIF programming taped on 11/23/63 (via DVP's youtube site). There's no way they "plugged" Ruby's club. McLendon's programming strategy was "easy listening" and there is no way a plug for a striptease club would "play" with that audience before or after the assassination.

In the meantime, there is a fellow in town that has been very good to me named Gordon McLendon. Do you know him, Mr. Warren?

Chief Justice WARREN. I think I do not.

Mr. RUBY. He had been giving me a lot of free plugs. And all the while listening to the radio, I heard about a certain diskjockey, Joe Long, that is down at the station, giving firsthand information--I want to describe him--of Oswald.

So I think Ruby is lying about the "plugs" and lying about the sandwiches.

It's still quite possible that Ruby received a "message". A certain song repeatedly played could be a signal. This might explain why he needed to go down to the station so badly. He was being told to do something that he desperately didn't want to do.

[Paul Trejo]

All of those reports, IMHO, are merely "mistaken identity" reports. Every murder case has several "mistaken identity" reports, and murder cases involving famous people have many times the normal. The murder of JFK has provided so many cases of "mistaken identity" that a fiction writer like John Armstrong could weave them all into a science-fiction scenario like "Harvey and Lee".

But that's what happens when the CIA-did-it theorists fail to find closure after fifty years. Plain nonsense.

And by your own admission, all we have is your humble opinion. Your humble opinion that several witnesses who may have seen Ruby give Oswald a gun at the Book Depository shouldn’t even be questioned, because in your humble opinion they’re mistaken. And your humble opinion that a restaurant waitress who knew Jack Ruby for many years and thought she saw him sitting with Oswald the morning of the assassination and said her life was threatened a few days later shouldn’t be investigated more fully because, in your humble opinion, she was mistaken.

Why wouldn’t the FBI investigate those allegations? Too busy confiscating Oswald’s teen-aged employment and school records?

You seem willing to cast blame almost everywhere… Dallas police, the Mob, right-wing operatives… but never the CIA. Why is that?

One more time….

Why did the CIA protect Jack Ruby’s Cuban gunrunning activities?

Do you really think it was a coincidence that Ruby communicated so frequently with Gordon McClendon, David Atlee Phillips’ close associate?

Well, I suppose it's my humble opinion against John Anderson's humble opinion -- and his endless guesswork.

Again -- John Anderson makes too much of "mistaken identity" cases. That's all he really has. As for the questions you asked, Jim, here are my answers by the numbers;

(1) The FBI refused to investigate those allegations because J. Edgar Hoover by 3pm on 11/22/1963 had already given the command to all FBI Agents that all JFK evidence must be forced into a "Lone Shooter" scenario, in the interests of National Security.

(2) I don't blame the mob or the FBI or the CIA. In my theory, the FBI was acting in good faith, in the interest of National Security -- exactly like they said. Earl Warren told us the truth about why he had to lie to us -- he said that the Truth would be revealed in 75 years.

(3) When I blame rogues in the Dallas Police, this is the same as blaming the Radical Right. There is no difference. My CT, like that of Jeff Caufield (2015), consistently blames the Radical Right for the murder of JFK.

(4) The entire US Government concealed all Cuban gun-running activities, because they were all conducted with the international crime of plotting to assassinate Fidel Castro. The CIA was in the center of that, but the real reason the CIA lied about that is because by law they are required to lie about all CIA secrets.

(5) It is absurd to link the friend of a friend to make a CIA connection. People have done that since the days of the Ruth Paine roasting -- it's just weak reasoning.

(5.1) If you can directly link David Atlee Phillips to Jack Ruby, then by all means do so. Otherwise, it's weak.

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

Edited October 12, 2016 by Paul Trejo

[Jim Hargrove]

Oh, for heaven’s sake. Dozens of arms suppliers to Cuba and other Caribbean locations were arrested and/or investigated and/or jailed during the 1950s.

Robert Mckeown was on probation when “Oswald” tried to buy rifles from him.

U.S. Customs was investigating David Ferrie for gunrunning.

On Nov. 30 1958 the 80-foot yacht Restless II was caught near Key Biscayne with 200 rifles, 7,000 rounds of ammunition. Supervising Agent Charles V. Wyatt and Border Patrolman Charles Williams made seizure. Eight men were arrested, including Guillermo Martin.

For dozens more examples of gunrunning arrests directly involving Cuba, see:

http://cuban-exile.com/doc_076-100/doc0095.html

But other than an isolated and unfollowed-up FBI report from a confidential source, there is no indication anywhere that Jack Ruby/Rubenstein was ever investigated, charged or convicted of a similar suspense.

Do you seriously believe he escaped the CIA’s notice? Why was he protected?

[Chris Newton]

Do you seriously believe he escaped the CIA’s notice? Why was he protected?

It might make sense that the DOJ was not "witting" of CIA/Mob operations to smuggle arms to Castro if CIA were to have any "plausible deniability".

[Paul Brancato]

Chris - I think Mr. Hargrove's point was that plenty of Ruby's connections did get busted while he seemed to escape notice. I'll let Jim clarify. I'm not, btw a 'two Oswald' theorist, though I try to keep an open mind, since there are so many discrepancies.

[Chris Newton]

Chris - I think Mr. Hargrove's point was that plenty of Ruby's connections did get busted while he seemed to escape notice. I'll let Jim clarify. I'm not, btw a 'two Oswald' theorist, though I try to keep an open mind, since there are so many discrepancies.

Paul,

I get all that but I think everything is more complex than you and Jim are suggesting. There were several periods of arms "exportation" that had different "rules of engagement". There were even different guerilla armies in different provinces receiving supplies, they weren't all going to Castro. Who was smuggling to whom in 1955 was changed a lot by 1962.

[Paul Brancato]

No doubt you are right Chris. Nothing is so simple...

[Sandy Larsen]

But other than an isolated and unfollowed-up FBI report from a confidential source, there is no indication anywhere that Jack Ruby/Rubenstein was ever investigated, charged or convicted of a similar suspense.

Do you seriously believe he escaped the CIA’s notice? Why was he protected?

Jim,

You are suggesting that the CIA wanted there to be gun shipments to leftist rebels in Cuba. Why would they want that? I don't know anything about this topic, but just read on Wikipedia that the U.S. was supplying Batista with planes,ships, tanks, etc. during the Cuban Revolution, but then in 1958 quit doing so and placed an arms embargo on Cuba.

So was it the case that during Ruby's smuggling days the U.S. was formally backing Batista against the rebels, whereas the CIA was secretly arming the rebels?

[Chris Newton]

So was it the case that during Ruby's smuggling days the U.S. was formally backing Batista against the rebels, whereas the CIA was secretly arming the rebels?

Yes.

There was a time when we were playing both ends against the middle.

I think law enforcement did their jobs for the most part. Most of the weapons that were smuggled out were stolen. Local law enforcement, customs, ATF and FBI were actively shutting down operations and caches were busted. In the evidence seized in McKeowns bust there were Thompson's that had the serial numbers removed. I've run across one rumor (twice) that certain US Senators were involved in selling arms from an Arkansas NG Armory to Prio's "people".

[Paul Trejo]

But other than an isolated and unfollowed-up FBI report from a confidential source, there is no indication anywhere that Jack Ruby/Rubenstein was ever investigated, charged or convicted of a similar suspense.

Do you seriously believe he escaped the CIA’s notice? Why was he protected?

Jim,

You are suggesting that the CIA wanted there to be gun shipments to leftist rebels in Cuba. Why would they want that? I don't know anything about this topic, but just read on Wikipedia that the U.S. was supplying Batista with planes,ships, tanks, etc. during the Cuban Revolution, but then in 1958 quit doing so and placed an arms embargo on Cuba.

So was it the case that during Ruby's smuggling days the U.S. was formally backing Batista against the rebels, whereas the CIA was secretly arming the rebels?

It wasn't just Jack Ruby who was protected -- it was anybody who was working to overthrow Fidel Castro, including Gerry Patrick Hemming, Loran Hall, Frank Sturgis, John Martino, Guy Banister, David Ferrie, Harry Dean, Guy Gabaldon, Larry Howard -- and Lee Harvey Oswald.

The problem was that JFK realized that this looked bad to the international community at the United Nations. So, JFK told RFK to control all of this himself, by using Operation Mongoose. (This has been fully documented by Larry Hancock, Someone Would Have Talked, (2003).)

Then JFK ordered the FBI to shut down all visible Anti-Cuba training camps and mercenary clubs. This included Lake Pontchartrain in New Orleans, led by David Ferrie and Guy Banister on some swamp land owned by Carlos Marcello.

The shock-waves that the Cuban Expatriates felt by the removal of their training camps fed the widespread hatred against JFK. But in reality, JFK was still trying to assassinate Fidel Castro -- but in a top secret fashion.

Now -- sure -- some guys had to be thrown overboard as sacrificial lambs to keep up appearances that JFK really was backing away from his attacks on Communist Cuba; guys like Mckeown; but that was collateral damage.

But the guys in the trenches didn't know that. So they would support any movement -- by anybody -- who offered to assassinate JFK as a Communist Traitor. This belief extended into the middle class through the John Birch Society; and in Dallas, General Walker was one of the leaders of the John Birch Society.

Guy Banister, David Ferrie, Gerry Patrick Hemming and Loran Hall were involved along with Roscoe White in the 1963 plot led by General Walker to make Lee Harvey Oswald into the Patsy.

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

Edited October 13, 2016 by Paul Trejo

[Paul Brancato]

Chris - any chance you recall which senators?

[Chris Newton]

Paul,

The Senators' names were never given. I researched whom they might be but I couldn't come to any conclusions regarding the veracity of the claims.

If you search in Mary Ferrell's database you can find hundreds of reports on Armory thefts such as this one:

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=11245&relPageId=3

[Chris Newton]

Now -- sure -- some guys had to be thrown overboard as sacrificial lambs to keep up appearances that JFK really was backing away from his attacks on Communist Cuba; guys like Mckeown; but that was collateral damage.

I really have been trying to "be nice" but this is typical Trejo b_llsh_t. John Kennedy wasn't even President when McKeown was convicted.