Yes, Oswald was an Intelligence agent

[Jim Hargrove]

NOTE: In a 1997 interview Robert Webster told JFK researcher and author Dick

Russell that he met Marina Prusakova in Moscow in the summer of 1959 and spoke with

her in English. Webster said that Marina spoke English well, but with a heavy accent.

A year after Webster was sent to Leningrad by the Soviet Government, 400 miles from

Moscow, he met Marina again shortly after he applied for an exit visa so that he could

return to the US. ^{[interview of Robert Webster by Dick Russell at Cape Cod, MA. 1997]}

Marina's friend in Dallas, Katya Ford, said that when she asked Marina why Oswald

went to Russia, Marina told her that he worked for the Rand Corporation and helped

set up the American exhibit at the World Trade Exposition in Moscow^{.[WC Document 5,}

^{p. 259; FBI interview of Katherine Ford by SA James P. Hosty, 11/24/63]} Marina had momentarily

confused Harvey Oswald with Robert Webster, the 1st US "defector," whom

she met in Moscow (1959) and again in Leningrad (1960).

It is not a coincidence that both Webster and Oswald "defected" a few months apart in

1959, both tried to "defect" on a Saturday, both possessed "sensitive" information of

possible value to the Russians, both were befriended by Marina Prusakova, and both

returned to the United States in the Spring of 1962. These US "defectors," acting in perfect

harmony, were both working for the CIA.

--From Harvey and Lee, p. 799, Copyright © 2003 by John Armstrong

[Chris Newton]

It is not a coincidence that both Webster and Oswald "defected" a few months apart in

1959, both tried to "defect" on a Saturday, both possessed "sensitive" information of

possible value to the Russians, both were befriended by Marina Prusakova, and both

returned to the United States in the Spring of 1962. These US "defectors," acting in perfect

harmony, were both working for the CIA.

Jim,

Wouldn't this, if it were fact, also suggest that the CIA knew that Marina had met both men and spoke English? And that they then subsequently concealed these facts for some reason? What do we know of Marina's CIA/CI file (if she has one)?

[Thomas Graves]

NOTE: In a 1997 interview Robert Webster told JFK researcher and author Dick

Russell that he met Marina Prusakova in Moscow in the summer of 1959 and spoke with

her in English. Webster said that Marina spoke English well, but with a heavy accent.

A year after Webster was sent to Leningrad by the Soviet Government, 400 miles from

Moscow, he met Marina again shortly after he applied for an exit visa so that he could

return to the US. ^{[interview of Robert Webster by Dick Russell at Cape Cod, MA. 1997]}

Marina's friend in Dallas, Katya Ford, said that when she asked Marina why Oswald

went to Russia, Marina told her that he worked for the Rand Corporation and helped

set up the American exhibit at the World Trade Exposition in Moscow^{.[WC Document 5,}

^{p. 259; FBI interview of Katherine Ford by SA James P. Hosty, 11/24/63]} Marina had momentarily

confused Harvey Oswald with Robert Webster, the 1st US "defector," whom

she met in Moscow (1959) and again in Leningrad (1960).

It is not a coincidence that both Webster and Oswald "defected" a few months apart in

1959, both tried to "defect" on a Saturday, both possessed "sensitive" information of

possible value to the Russians, both were befriended by Marina Prusakova, and both

returned to the United States in the Spring of 1962. These US "defectors," acting in perfect

harmony, were both working for the CIA.

--From Harvey and Lee, p. 799, Copyright © 2003 by John Armstrong

FWIW,

Bill Simpich thinks the conflated descriptions of look-alike "defectors" Lee Harvey Oswald (approx. 135 pound, 20-year-old, Marine) and Robert E. Webster (165 pound, 31 year-old, ex Air Force) were used by the CIA to try to uncover "Popov's Mole." The theory is that the physical descriptions of the two men were mixed and merged in counter-intelligence "marked cards." Oswald was given Webster-like physical attributes in a report https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=6665&relPageId=8 by Fort Worth FBI agent John Fain, who interviewed Marguerite Oswald in early May, 1960, about six months after LHO had defected to the USSR, and Fain wrote the report as though she had described her son as being 5'10" tall (he was 5'9.5"), having blue eyes and light-brown wavy hair, and weighing a whopping 165 pounds. This report was forwarded to CIA's Russia division, and integrated into the CIA's files on LHO.

All of which could help explain why at 12:44 pm on 11/22/63, Dallas Police Officer J. Herbert Sawyer broadcast a description of the yet-unnamed "suspected assassin" as being a very Webster-like "about 30, 5' 10", 165 pounds," having probably been (unintentionally?) fed that "marked card" mis-information about Oswald by local Army Intel.

https://www.maryferrell.org/pages/State_Secret_Chapter1.html

-- Tommy

Edited October 12, 2016 by Thomas Graves

[Jim Hargrove]

Thanks. I remember a little of that. Doesn't Mr. Simpich also believe much of the Mexico City shenanigans involved a mole hunt also? His book is very well researched, but considering the efforts to place more blame on Oswald as a Cuban agent, I suspect the MC charade went beyond a mole hunt. Just my opinion.

[Jim Hargrove]

Wouldn't this, if it were fact, also suggest that the CIA knew that Marina had met both men and spoke English? And that they then subsequently concealed these facts for some reason? What do we know of Marina's CIA/CI file (if she has one)?

The CIA surely knew Marina spoke English because "Oswald" would have told them she did. The whole marriage reminds me of the old Rocky and Bullwinkle cartoon show, which featured Russian spies named Boris and Natasha. "We get moose and squirrel for Motherland!”

Both governments surely knew or at least strongly suspected that Russian-speaking Oswald and Marina Prusakova were spies, but both also decided to let the charade go on. The U.S. government, though, was not about to give Marina free-reign in this country. Enter Collins Radio....

NOTE: Collins Radio was located at 1200 North Alma Road in Richardson, Texas and

held major communications contracts for the military and CIA, including the installa­-

tion of communications towers in Vietnam.

On November 1, 1963 the New York Times published a photo of a ship named the "Rex"

and a story involving commandos that (were sent ashore from the ship in Cuba on Octo­-

ber 22-23, 1963. The Commandos were captured on a Cuban beach with high-powered

sniper rifles and admitted they had been trained by the CIA to kill Cuban leaders. The

"Rex" was leased to Collins Radio of Richardson, Texas....

Another employee of Collins Radio, Kenneth Porter, quit his job after the assassination

of President Kennedy, left his wife, took up with Marina Oswald, and married her in

Fate, Texas on June 1, 1965.

--from Harvey and Lee, pp. 872-873, Copyright © 2003 by John Armstrong

Yet another employee of Collins Radio was Carl Mather, best friend of J.D. Tippit, who in 1963 serviced radio equipment on Air Force Two. Wes Wise, future Mayor of Dallas, was intimately involved in a report that "Oswald" was seen after the assassination in a car bearing Carl Mather's license plate. This story is well worth researching for anyone not familiar with it.

[Thomas Graves]

Thanks. I remember a little of that. Doesn't Mr. Simpich also believe much of the Mexico City shenanigans involved a mole hunt also? His book is very well researched, but considering the efforts to place more blame on Oswald as a Cuban agent, I suspect the MC charade went beyond a mole hunt. Just my opinion.

Yes, Jim.

The Mexico City Mole Hunt was necessitated by the fact that Lee Harvey Oswald (and Cubn Consulate secretary Slyvia Duran) were impersonated in an improbable Saturday September 28, 1963, telephone call from the Cuban Consulate to the Russian Embassy in which a man who was identified by pseudo-Duran as "an American" said he had visited the Russian Embassy earlier that day, and not much else.

This same man later identified himself as "Oswald" in an October 2 call to the Russian Embassy (and maybe even the day before, in a call whose transcript is now mysteriously missing).

On October 10, two weeks after the original call, the Mexico City CIA Station and CIA Headquarters finally mounted separate-but-coordinated "marked card" operations to try to catch the perpetrator(s) of the ostensibly information-seeking ruse.

Since the impersonator had identified himself as "Oswald" on October 2, the above-mentioned "marked cards" involved the same man who really was trying to get a Russian visa in Mexico City and who, ironically (?), had been involved in a "Popov's Mole" marked-card operation three years earlier in the USSR -- Lee Harvey Oswald -- and also, by implication, his 1960 "marked card" look-alike and fellow false-defector, the then thirty-one year old, 5'10", 165-pound, dark-blonde-haired, blue-eyed Robert E. Webster.

-- Tommy

Edited October 14, 2016 by Thomas Graves

[Micah Mileto]

Is the "half dollar bill" issue a commonly accepted aspect of LHO lore?

http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/22/2288-001.gif

http://historymatters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh22/html/WH_Vol22_0105a.htm

The DPD note doesn't refer to where these dollar bills were found, but Oswald's wallet (the one he was arrested with?) had a partially ripped whole bill. All three artifacts apparently had strange three-digit numbers written on them - "180", "221", and "300". A similar situation has been proposed with the box top found in his pocket.

[Jim Hargrove]

Since it’s so hard to agree on anything in this case, I’d like to just stick to the basics on this issue. So, here’s more proof that “Lee Harvey Oswald” was a U.S. Intelligence agent.

The document below shows that the Department of the Navy believed Oswald “may have had access to Confidential info” while in the Marine Corps. It also states that, while in Moscow, “Oswald stated he was radar operator in Marcorps and has offered to furnish Soviets info. He possesses on U.S. Radar.”

The very fact that Oswald could travel to the Soviet Union at the height of the Cold War, tell our man in Moscow that he was going to tell the Russkies everything he knew, and then come home a few years later without facing charges of treason—or even unkind words--is proof enough for me that he was really a spy.

Of course, we’ve spent the last 55 years or so listening to all the reasons he just simply had to be left alone by the USG. He was just a wannabe spy, don’t cha know, not a real one, and had his RIGHTS! What a hoot!

[Paul Brancato]

Thomas - that is a very good and concise outline of the Mexico City impersonations and the 'marked card' response supposedly to trick someone into giving up their identity. How exactly is that supposed to work? In order to create this 'trap', Oswald's files had to be segregated, which they already had been, when, as you point out Thomas, 3 years earlier Oswald had been part of a similar mole hunt marked card. It seems that Angleton was responsible for both diversions, and somehow that's supposed to prove, in the MC instance, that he didn't know what was going on. I don't believe it.

In order for this to work as a theory, we have to believe that there are no pictures of Oswald in MC. If there were real pictures, seen presumably by Phillips or ...., it would be natural for those pictures to be shown to Angleton, Helms, someone upstairs. How many of you actually believe there are not, and never were, pictures of Oswald in MC? I don't. So why haven't we seen them? And who decided to hide them?

The thing is, the marked card, the segregated files where one might be all true, one part true, one misleading, slightly altered etc, benefit the covert operators and help keep the secrets. So their explanations don't ring true to me as to why their files were so carefully and cleverly organized. Clearly whoever did that, and I believe it was Angleton, was running operations and wanted total control of the facts and as much visibility as possible to be able to see compromised operations early. They didn't need to do something special to spot a compromised operation. They already had spotted it, and it was one of their own. They closed ranks and created what I think was a false myth - that they didn't know what was happening, that they lost control. That's why Phillips wrote that last book - not to confess or somehow lessen his guilt, but to mislead, and be part of this limited hangout.

Edited October 13, 2016 by Paul Brancato

[Thomas Graves]

Thomas - that is a very good and concise outline of the Mexico City impersonations and the 'marked card' response supposedly to trick someone into giving up their identity. How exactly is that supposed to work? In order to create this 'trap', Oswald's files had to be segregated, which they already had been, when, as you point out Thomas, 3 years earlier Oswald had been part of a similar mole hunt marked card. It seems that Angleton was responsible for both diversions, and somehow that's supposed to prove, in the MC instance, that he didn't know what was going on. I don't believe it.

In order for this to work as a theory, we have to believe that there are no pictures of Oswald in MC. If there were real pictures, seen presumably by Phillips or ...., it would be natural for those pictures to be shown to Angleton, Helms, someone upstairs. How many of you actually believe there are not, and never were, pictures of Oswald in MC? I don't. So why haven't we seen them? And who decided to hide them?

The thing is, the marked card, the segregated files where one might be all true, one part true, one misleading, slightly altered etc, benefit the covert operators and help keep the secrets. So their explanations don't ring true to me as to why their files were so carefully and cleverly organized. Clearly whoever did that, and I believe it was Angleton, was running operations and wanted total control of the facts and as much visibility as possible to be able to see compromised operations early. They didn't need to do something special to spot a compromised operation. They already had spotted it, and it was one of their own. They closed ranks and created what I think was a false myth - that they didn't know what was happening, that they lost control. That's why Phillips wrote that last book - not to confess or somehow lessen his guilt, but to mislead, and be part of this limited hangout.

Paul,

I don't know what the impersonators were trying to accomplish in the "incoherent" Saturday, September 28 phone call.

"To trick someone into giving up their identity"?

Or, maybe just to "show their hand"?

Whom? (Oswald? Kostikov? Someone else?)

How?

-- Tommy

Edited October 14, 2016 by Thomas Graves

[Paul Brancato]

Kostikov - trying to tie 'Oswald to Kostikov, because of the apparent misconception that he was head of KGB assassination unit. All sounds so scary but the story eventually unraveled. So do you think there were no pics of Oswald because the camera wasn't working, or there were pics but it wasn't Oswald, or they were Oswald accompanied by someone covert, like Morales? It was the lack of a photo of Oswald in the record that caused such careful scrutiny. How many decades did it take before someone figured out the impersonation? It looks stupid now, but it worked for a long time.

[Thomas Graves]

Kostikov - trying to tie 'Oswald to Kostikov, because of the apparent misconception that he was head of KGB assassination unit. All sounds so scary but the story eventually unraveled. So do you think there were no pics of Oswald because the camera wasn't working, or there were pics but it wasn't Oswald, or they were Oswald accompanied by someone covert, like Morales? It was the lack of a photo of Oswald in the record that caused such careful scrutiny. How many decades did it take before someone figured out the impersonation? It looks stupid now, but it worked for a long time.

Paul,

I don't buy the CIA's excuse that their camera was broken that day or those days.

After the fall of the Iron Curtain, at least one of the Russians who dealt with Oswald on Saturday, September 28, said when LHO left the Embassy / Consulate, he pulled his jacket up over his head to hide himself from any secret cameras.

Winn Scott is said to have had photos of Oswald entering / leaving an Embassy / Consulate in his personal safe in Mexico City.

If true, it wouldn't surprise me if Angleton ended up with those.

It would be "interesting," indeed, if it turned out that Morales accompanied LHO in Mexico.

I guess all we can do is speculate about that right now.

-- Tommy

Edited October 14, 2016 by Thomas Graves

[Thomas Graves]

Since it’s so hard to agree on anything in this case, I’d like to just stick to the basics on this issue. So, here’s more proof that “Lee Harvey Oswald” was a U.S. Intelligence agent.

The document below shows that the Department of the Navy believed Oswald “may have had access to Confidential info” while in the Marine Corps. It also states that, while in Moscow, “Oswald stated he was radar operator in Marcorps and has offered to furnish Soviets info. He possesses on U.S. Radar.”

The very fact that Oswald could travel to the Soviet Union at the height of the Cold War, tell our man in Moscow that he was going to tell the Russkies everything he knew, and then come home a few years later without facing charges of treason—or even unkind words--is proof enough for me that he was really a spy.

Of course, we’ve spent the last 55 years or so listening to all the reasons he just simply had to be left alone by the USG. He was just a wannabe spy, don’t cha know, not a real one, and had his RIGHTS! What a hoot!

Dear Jim,

The real significance of the two ONI documents you posted is that they have a couple of intentional "marked card" / "barium meal" inaccuracies. Can you spot them?

Bear in mind that about two weeks before these documents were written, a U.S. spy, GRU Colonel Popov, had been arrested in Moscow, and that Oswald had (coincidentally?) shown up in Moscow on the very same day. Also bear in mind that Robert E. Webster, who facially resembled Oswald, was already there, and renounced his US citizenship in Consul Richard Snyder's office two weeks before Oswald tried to do the same.

-- Tommy

Edited October 14, 2016 by Thomas Graves

[Jim Hargrove]

Tommy,

Do you really think these two men look "almost identical" and have an "uncanny resemblance?"

I don't see it at all.

What do other people think?

[Thomas Graves]

Tommy,

Do you really think these two men look "almost identical" and have an "uncanny resemblance?"

I don't see it at all.

What do other people think?

Dear Jim,

Not sure which photo you tried to post because they don't "show up."

Did you test the link [WebsterandOswald.jpg?dl=0] after you posted it here?

-- Tommy

PS -- I don't remember saying "uncanny resemblance," but maybe I did.

One of the problems for the research community over the years is the fact that John Armstrong misinterpreted the incorrect descriptions of Lee Harvey Oswald that were intentionally put in "marked cards" to catch "Popov's Mole" (starting in 1960), and the Mexico City Impersonator (starting in October, 1963).

Armstrong evidently thought these different (and false) descriptions of Oswald indicated that there was more than one Oswald running around ever since LHO "defected" to the U.S.S.R.

Edited October 14, 2016 by Thomas Graves