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Yes, Oswald was an Intelligence agent


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Sandy,

While I do not agree entirely with the "Walker-did-it" scenario, I have always felt that the attempt on Walker's life, which has been largely glossed over by the research community, precipitated JFK's assassination. I also believe this is where Ruby's involvement with Oswald may have began.

While the the Kennedy administration had been accused of dragging it's feet on civil rights, it's hand was being forced in dealing with the Walker issue for some time prior to the attempt on the general's life. This issue would be critical to JFK's re-election bid in 1964, and was at least in part his reason for visiting Dallas in November of 1963.

JFK relieved Walker from his command in Germany for his indoctrination of far-right, segregationist propaganda. Following the riots at the University of Mississippi, which Walker had organized and coordinated, Attorney General Robert Kennedy indicted Walker on charges of sedition. This maneuver failed after a grand jury acquitted Walker. RFK then attempted to have Walker committed to a mental facility for a 30-day evaluation which also was rejected by the courts, and terminated after only 5 days.

While Walker's bid for the governorship of Texas was an abysmal failure, Walker did command quite a following. During an appearance before 15,000 people in California there were even rumblings regarding a possible run for the presidency. This may seem far-fetched, but if we look at our present situation, some 50+ years on, I can envision legitimate concern among those who wished to protect our country from the type of civil unrest Walker was capable of inciting/commanding.

We know that following the shake up at the CIA, JFK appointed John McCone as director. McCone, known his superior organizational skills, knew little to nothing about the intelligence community. While McCone was busy analyzing and re-organizing the agency, it was RFK, (second only to the president himself), for all intents and purposes who sat at the helm.

As attempts to neutralize Fidel Castro were intensifying there was, I believe, a divide between the president and his brother regarding the use of organized crime figures to carry out these plans. The AG was furious when he found out that the CIA had enlisted the help of organized crime in this venture. Not surprising when you consider the aggressive stance and bold moves his office had taken against them. However, I believe JFK took a more balanced approach. While the president certainly supported/encouraged the AG's actions, I believe JFK was more of a realist vs. Bobby who often tended to view these issues from a more idealistic POV.

I mention this only for the purpose of introducing organized crime into a string of events which would have allowed them to eradicate their most intense rival, and essentially blackmail the government into total silence during it's investigation of the assassination. Oswald, and Oswald alone, would have to be found responsible. All other evidence would be ignored or debunked.

The question(s) then becomes... how much of a threat could Walker be to national security, or at the least, to the re-election of a sitting president?

And... to what lengths would the Kennedy administration go in using the CIA, and it's cohorts, in order to ensure the "domestic tranquility" of the nation during the upcoming '64' election?

Craig C.

Craig,

I'm pleased to see further reflection on the role of General Walker in the JFK assassination. I agree with you that the attempt on Walker's life has been largely glossed over by CTers, and that it precipitated JFK's assassination.

I also agree that Ruby's involvement comes from this generic area -- not from Walker himself, or even the Walker shooting -- but in the sense that Walker had many rightist followers among the Dallas Police, and Jack Ruby would do literally anything for the Dallas Police. So it was these few Dallas Police who let Ruby into the Dallas Police Station basement.

I also agree with your perspective on the clash between JFK and General Walker in 1962-1963, with the political focus on the Civil Rights issue.

I would slightly modify your statement that JFK relieved Walker from his command in Germany for his indoctrination of far-right, segregationist propaganda. The military record does not agree with that. Walker was dismissed for embarrassing the USA in April 1961, when the US Army newspaper, Overseas Weekly, accused Walker of being a member and advocate of the John Birch Society. That newspaper portrayed the fact in very one-sided terms. It was that scandal -- and not Walker's political position -- which pushed the Joint Chiefs to immediately, without a day's hesitation, remove General Walker from his post in Augsburg, over ten thousand troops guarding the Berlin Wall. The official military "admonishment" of General Walker included no charge of rightist affiliation -- but only of violating the Hatch Act. JFK even offered Walker a new training post in Hawaii. General Walker resigned from the US Army for the second time on November 4, 1961. The first time Walker resigned was on September 4, 1959, and President Eisenhower denied that resignation. (Walker tried to resign in 1959 because he had heard from Robert Welch that Ike was Red.)

I would slightly modify your timeline about the Ole Miss riots of September 30th 1962. JFK and RFK sent Walker to an insane asylum the very next morning, on October 1st, 1962. What sprung Walker from the loony bin was the ACLU along with psychiatrist Thomas Szasz. General Walker stood trial before a Grand Jury in January 1963, and was acquitted. The main charge at that time was whether or not General Walker was insane. Each side brought their psychiatrists. The Grand Jury found Walker sane, and the government at fault, and this was the main reason that they set Walker free. This, and because Walker lied and said he was at Ole Miss "to keep the peace." The Liberals across the USA were livid at this acquittal -- including young engineers in Dallas, along with Michael Paine, Volkmar Schmidt, and George DeMohrenschildt. These three had direct access to Lee Harvey Oswald.

I agree with your note that Ex-General Walker would have run for US President if he had the chance. Like George Wallace, he really thought he had a chance in 1962.

I also agree with you that RFK took over "Operation Mongoose" and other attempts to assassinate Fidel Castro, because JFK worried that the CIA had become too public -- no longer clandestine as they should be. Still, despite many CTer rumors, JFK increased funding for the CIA.

The difficulty of RFK managing AMLASH and other CIA projects was the bitter taste left by the failed Bay of Pigs. Not just Cuban Exiles, but also burned CIA agents in the field, kept the bad feelings alive. These, of course, were the guys who enlisted anybody they could, using any money they could find -- and objected ferociously when JFK shut down the "visible" means of Cuban Expatriate Resistance. I think that Larry Hancock documented this history quite well (Someone Would Have Talked, 2006) .

IMHO, Oswald was only one of many possible patsies for the JFK plotters until the last minute. Actually, several were plausible, including members of Interpen, Harry Dean and other unsuspecting unfortunates. But Lee Harvey Oswald had a special place in General Walker's heart, because Walker knew that Oswald was his shooter on April 10, 1963 -- only four days later. Here's what Walker said:

http://www.pet880.com/images/19750623_EAW_to_Frank_Church.pdf

And of course, Walker had told this same story to the German newspaper, Deutsche Nationalzeitung less than 24 hours after the JFK murder:

http://www.pet880.com/images/19631129_Deutsche_NZ.jpg

So -- I don't think that General Walker was perceived as a threat by JFK during 1963 -- I think that JFK and RFK had bigger things on their minds. They thought that they had already defeated Walker by branding him as "insane" in 1962.

As for Lee Harvey Oswald -- he was no Intelligence Agent -- although he was a flunky for the Radical Right in Louisiana, under Guy Banister, David Ferrie -- with a nod and a wink from David Atlee Phillips. Lee Harvey Oswald was a CIA wannabe. He hoped that if he helped to assassinate Fidel Castro, he would: (1) be forgiven for his potshot at General Walker; and (2) finally get a real job with the CIA.

Oswald was wrong on both counts.

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

<edit typos>

Edited by Paul Trejo
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But Lee Harvey Oswald had a special place in General Walker's vision, because Walker knew that Oswald was his shooter on April 10, 1963 -- only four days later.

“Lee Harvey Oswald” had nothing to do with the shooting at Walker’s residence. He was framed for that, just as he was for the Kennedy shooting, but with far less sophistication.
Note the following comparison of CE573 (the bullet allegedly dug out of Walker’s house) with CE399 (the “Magic Bullet”). Both are obviously copper-jacketed bullets, and they sure look the same, don’t they?
CE573+&+CE399+Comparison.jpg
But as you can see in the original report filed by Dallas police, it was a steel-jacketed bullet dug out of Mr. Walker's house. Somehow, perhaps while at the National Archives, it transformed itself into a copper jacketed bullet!
Walker_Report.jpg
Another magic bullet!
Is this thread now going to be hijacked by a lengthy discussion about how General Walker killed JFK, distracting all attention from the CIA?
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“Lee Harvey Oswald” had nothing to do with the shooting at Walker’s residence. He was framed for that, just as he was for the Kennedy shooting, but with far less sophistication.
Note the following comparison of CE573 (the bullet allegedly dug out of Walker’s house) with CE399 (the “Magic Bullet”). Both are obviously copper-jacketed bullets, and they sure look the same, don’t they?
But as you can see in the original report filed by Dallas police, it was a steel-jacketed bullet dug out of Mr. Walker's house. Somehow, perhaps while at the National Archives, it transformed itself into a copper jacketed bullet!
Another magic bullet!
Is this thread now going to be hijacked by a lengthy discussion about how General Walker killed JFK, distracting all attention from the CIA?

Jim,

Your error here is assuming that the Walker bullet is behind my statement.

How many times do I need to repeat that the Walker bullet was too mutilated for identification? The so-called Walker bullet has nothing to do with the charge that Oswald shot at Walker.

Instead -- the evidence I have always relied upon is the sworn testimony of Marina Oswald, of Ruth Paine, and of George and Jeanne DeMohrenschildt.

Yet you keep changing the topic back to this silly, so-called Walker bullet. Evidently that's all you've got.

As for the BYP, yes, they were Fakes, as Jack White ably proved, and other photographic experts also demonstrated.

But you jump to conclusions when you say that the CIA created those Fakes. It is far more likely that Lee Harvey Oswald created them himself at Jaggars-Chiles-Stovall during the month of March when he created the Fake ID for Alek J. Hidell.

Yes, Lee Harvey Oswald was a CIA wannabe -- and that's precisely why he created the BYP -- for plausible deniability.

Once we accept that LHO himself created the BYP, then we can add the BYP and also the Walker note to the material evidence against LHO in the April 10, 1963 shooting at General Walker.

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

Edited by Paul Trejo
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Again -- it's too easy to blame the CIA, because the CIA never fights back, because they never say anything, ever.

CIA people often don’t have to fight back or talk. They have a near endless supply of elite media assets to do their fighting and talking for them.

"The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media."

--William Colby, former CIA Director, cited by Dave Mcgowan, Derailing Democracy

"You could get a journalist cheaper than a good call girl, for a couple hundred dollars a month."

--CIA operative, discussing the availability and prices of journalists willing to peddle CIA propaganda and cover stories. Katherine the Great, by Deborah Davis

"There is quite an incredible spread of relationships. You don’t need to manipulate Time magazine, for example, because there are [Central Intelligence] Agency people at the management level."

--William B. Bader, former CIA intelligence officer, briefing members of the Senate Intelligence Committee, The CIA and the Media, by Carl Bernstein

"The Agency's relationship with [The New York] Times was by far its most valuable among newspapers, according to CIA officials. [it was] general Times policy ... to provide assistance to the CIA whenever possible."

--The CIA and the Media, by Carl Bernstein

"Senator William Proxmire has pegged the number of employees of the federal intelligence community at 148,000 ... though Proxmire's number is itself a conservative one. The "intelligence community" is officially defined as including only those organizations that are members of the U.S. Intelligence Board (USIB); a dozen other agencies, charged with both foreign and domestic intelligence chores, are not encompassed by the term.... The number of intelligence workers employed by the federal government is not 148,000, but some undetermined multiple of that number."

--Jim Hougan, Spooks

"For some time I have been disturbed by the way the CIA has been diverted from its original assignment. It has become an operational and at times a policy-making arm of the government.... I never had any thought that when I set up the CIA that it would be injected into peacetime cloak and dagger operations."

--former President Harry Truman, 22 December 1963, one month to the day after the JFK assassination, op-ed section of the Washington Post, early edition

--Above from mtracy9.tripod.com/cia_instructions.htm

To see the infamous CIA document dated 4/1/1967 about how to counter criticism of the Warren Commission, CLICK HERE.

Bump!

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Your error here is assuming that the Walker bullet is behind my statement.

How many times do I need to repeat that the Walker bullet was too mutilated for identification? The so-called Walker bullet has nothing to do with the charge that Oswald shot at Walker.

Gosh, the Walker Bullet (on the left) sure looks like a copper-jacketed bullet to me!

CE573+&+CE399+Comparison.jpg

Why do you think the Dallas Police would say this was a STEEL-JACKETED BULLET when the WC said it was copper-clad?

Walker_Report.jpg

Even an HSCA report indicated “we regretfully refuse to accept the judgment of the Commission in regard to the Walker shooting….” It added that the testimony of Marina Oswald “has all the weight of a handful of chicken feathers….”
chicken_feathers.jpg?dl=0
Edited by Jim Hargrove
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Re the Walker shooting.

  • Walter Kirk Coleman, a teen–age neighbor of General Walker, who saw two men flee the scene by car after the shot was heard. Oswald could not drive, and the Report said he was alone.
  • Detective Ira Van Cleave, who participated in the original investigation of the Walker shooting and who told the press at that time that the bullet had been “identified as a 30.06,” which rules out Oswald’s Carcano rifle.
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Again -- the Walker bullet has nothing to do with the case against Lee Harvey Oswald in the Walker shooting. To keep raising it up again is to live in denial.

Marina Oswald could only tell what she was told by LHO, namely: (1) that he shot at Walker: (2) that he had no accomplices: (3) that he was on foot; and (4) that he buried his rifle.

Marina Oswald honestly reported those four claims -- but she had no idea that the last three claims were deliberate falsehoods by LHO himself.

As Ray correctly posted, young Walter Kirk Coleman was an eye-witness and saw two men fleeing by car. This proves that LHO lied when he said he had no accomplices. This also proves that LHO lied when he said he was on foot.

This also proves that LHO had no need to bury his rifle -- and actually LHO had no need to even use his rifle. There remains the strong likelihood that LHO used somebody else's rifle -- somebody who drove a car.

Why even bring LHO into this mess? Because LHO confessed to Marina -- because LHO wrote the Walker note (in Russian) and because LHO created the BYP forgeries at Jaggars-Chiles-Stovall -- because LHO was a CIA wannabe.

CIA Agents don't get made into Patsies. CIA wannabes do.

Regards

--Paul Trejo

Edited by Paul Trejo
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Again -- the Walker bullet has nothing to do with the case against Lee Harvey Oswald in the Walker shooting. To keep raising it up again is to live in denial.

Marina Oswald could only tell what she was told by LHO, namely: (1) that he shot at Walker: (2) that he had no accomplices: (3) that he was on foot; and (4) that he buried his rifle.

Marina Oswald honestly reported those four claims -- but she had no idea that the last three claims were deliberate falsehoods by LHO himself.

As Ray correctly posted, young Walter Kirk Coleman was an eye-witness and saw two men fleeing by car. This proves that LHO lied when he said he had no accomplices. This also proves that LHO lied when he said he was on foot.

This also proves that LHO had no need to bury his rifle -- and actually LHO had no need to even use his rifle. There remains the strong likelihood that LHO used somebody else's rifle -- somebody who drove a car.

Why even bring LHO into this mess? Because LHO confessed to Marina -- because LHO wrote the Walker note (in Russian) and because LHO created the BYP forgeries at Jaggars-Chiles-Stovall -- because LHO was a CIA wannabe.

CIA Agents don't get made into Patsies. CIA wannabes do.

Regards

--Paul Trejo

"As Ray correctly posted, young Walter Kirk Coleman was an eye-witness and saw two men fleeing by car. This proves that LHO lied when he said he had no accomplices. This also proves that LHO lied when he said he was on foot.

This also proves that LHO had no need to bury his rifle -- and actually LHO had no need to even use his rifle. There remains the strong likelihood that LHO used somebody else's rifle -- somebody who drove a car.

"
They prove nothing of the sort. That is your interpretation of the the facts.
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Marina Oswald could only tell what she was told by LHO, namely: (1) that he shot at Walker: (2) that he had no accomplices: (3) that he was on foot; and (4) that he buried his rifle.

Marina Oswald honestly reported those four claims -- but she had no idea that the last three claims were deliberate falsehoods by LHO himself.

Marina Oswald honestly reported????? She has been so thoroughly discredited even the HSCA report concluded her “testimony has all the weight of a handful of chicken feathers.”
If you base ANY conclusion on the belief that “Marina Oswald honestly reported” ANYTHING, you are basing your idea on NOTHING. No wonder you want to avoid the issue of the planted bullet.
Of course, if your goal was to stop talking about the CIA and start talking about Marina and Walker, then you have succeeded admirably!
chicken_feathers.jpg?dl=0
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Marina Oswald could only tell what she was told by LHO, namely: (1) that he shot at Walker: (2) that he had no accomplices: (3) that he was on foot; and (4) that he buried his rifle.

Marina Oswald honestly reported those four claims -- but she had no idea that the last three claims were deliberate falsehoods by LHO himself.

Marina Oswald honestly reported????? She has been so thoroughly discredited even the HSCA report concluded her “testimony has all the weight of a handful of chicken feathers.”
If you base ANY conclusion on the belief that “Marina Oswald honestly reported” ANYTHING, you are basing your idea on NOTHING. No wonder you want to avoid the issue of the planted bullet.
Of course, if your goal was to stop talking about the CIA and start talking about Marina and Walker, then you have succeeded admirably!
chicken_feathers.jpg?dl=0

Jim,

I get the impression that the only people Paul believes 100% are Marina Oswald and the CIA. (The latter unwittingly.)

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Jim,

I get the impression that the only people Paul believes 100% are Marina Oswald and the CIA. (The latter unwittingly.)

You must add Marina's lover, Ruth P., "the magic christian" whom Paul coincidentally believes has also been unfairly treated by the CT community.

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Jim,

I get the impression that the only people Paul believes 100% are Marina Oswald and the CIA. (The latter unwittingly.)

Sandy,

You're partly right. I believe Marina Oswald's sworn testimony to the Warren Commission. I find no reason to doubt her testimony.

I agree that Marina was frantic toward the FBI when she was first picked up after the JFK assassination, and that she said many things out of fear -- basically denying anything and everything. But after she calmed down and took the oath, she told the full truth.

(Also, it's a mistake to imagine that Marina Oswald just wrote LHO off as the JFK assassin -- Marina said consistently to the Warren Commission and for the rest of her life, that she could only make an opinion based on the evidence that she was allowed to see -- which was always partial. Even to this day she keeps an open mind -- that LHO had accomplices.)

So, yes, I believe Marina Oswald.

And yes, I believe that that CIA high-command had nothing to do with the JFK assassination -- on the contrary, the CIA was taken by surprise by it. This was proved beyond any reasonable doubt by Bill Simpich (2014) when he proved the CIA started a Mole-Hunt to find the Impersonator of LHO in Mexico City in September 1963.

There were only two CIA agents who confessed to any role in the JFK assassination, namely, David Morales and Howard Hunt, and they were not in the CIA high-command. So, these two were rogues. They had joined a Civilian plot based in Dallas. They confessed.

As for CIA Agent David Atlee Phillips, he only confessed his connection with LHO in 1963 in his manuscript, The AMLASH Legacy (1988), in the context of a plot to assassinate Fidel Castro. I find that believable. Most of the folks at 544 Camp Street in New Orleans were there only to whack Fidel Castro.

But there are others whom I also believe. I believe every word of the testimony of Ruth Paine. I find no fault in any of it. She answered more questions than any other WC witness -- and it took me weeks to read all of her testimony -- and it all checks out, IMHO.

The same with Michael Paine -- although I find that the WC attorneys handled him with kid gloves. The main WC Witnesses who failed to tell the full truth were:

(1) James Hosty

(2) Forrest Sorrels

(3) Bernard Weissman

(4) Robert Allen Surrey

(5) Robert Klause

(6) General Walker

(7) Revilo P. Oliver

Others who are suspicious, IMHO, would be those in the Dallas Sheriff's office (because Deputy Sheriff Roger Craig contradicted them).

Also, Jesse Curry, Bill Decker and Will Fritz are suspicious to me (mainly because the bulk of what we know about LHO during the last three days of his life comes from Will Fritz -- from his memory -- months after the events).

I repeat -- Intelligence Agents never become Patsies. Lee Harvey Oswald was a CIA wannabe -- and that was his greatest vulnerability.

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

<edit typos>

Edited by Paul Trejo
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So back to the thread premise... Yes, Oswald was an intelligence agent.

Name me one murder suspect, other than Oswald, whose correspondence and notebooks were thoroughly searched for "microdots".

See pages 256 & 257 for reference:

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=55092#relPageId=256&tab=page

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Just because somebody knows about microdots does not make them an Intelligence Agent -- CIA or otherwise.

On the contrary -- a CIA wannabe would also try to learn as much as he could about microdots.

It is a historical fact that Lee Harvey Oswald knew a CIA Agent by the name of Richard Case Nagell while he was in New Orleans during the summer of 1963.

Nagell was a genuine CIA Agent. Nagell said that he warned LHO that if LHO was successful in gaining entrance into Cuba through Mexico City, that Nagell would have to shoot LHO dead.

This was because Nagell was also an authentic double-agent, who was pretending to the USSR to be on their side. Since the USSR knew that LHO would only have murderous intentions toward Fidel Castro in Cuba, they would order Nagell to kill LHO dead if LHO was successful in getting passage into Cuba from Mexico City. (This is all presented by Dick Russell in his famous book, The Man Who Knew Too Much (1993)).

Nagell, for his part, would have to kill LHO just in order to keep the USSR in the dark about his true identity. Otherwise, it would have become clear to the USSR that Nagell was a double-agent. Luckily for Nagell -- and for LHO -- LHO failed to get an entry visa into Cuba from Mexico City there in September 1963.

My point is that Nagell and LHO had some communication in New Orleans. This doesn't prove that LHO was a CIA Agent -- far from it. It more likely shows that LHO believed that he was getting closer to his dream job of being a CIA Agent. By learning Russian and infiltrating the FPCC, it is plausible that LHO dreamed of being a double-agent one day -- just like Richard Case Nagell.

It is also plausible that LHO and Nagell would have spoken here and there about 'microdots.' LHO was a photography buff, after all.

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

Edited by Paul Trejo
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So back to the thread premise... Yes, Oswald was an intelligence agent.

Name me one murder suspect, other than Oswald, whose correspondence and notebooks were thoroughly searched for "microdots".

See pages 256 & 257 for reference:

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=55092#relPageId=256&tab=page

Chris,

"Oswald" had "micro dots" written under the JCS address in his book. Is that what you're referring to?

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