Yes, Oswald was an Intelligence agent

[Chris Newton]

"Oswald" had "micro dots" written under the JCS address in his book. Is that what you're referring to?

Partially yes, "micro dots" were not widely heard of in 1963. There was a concerted effort to examine all of Oswald's "material" for them. The people who participated and directed this investigation obviously knew a lot more about Oswald and intelligence work than I, or even our esteemed expert on the subject, Mr. Paul Trejo (who conveniently ignored my question above).

Example on page 31:

http://www.courts.ca.gov/documents/Richard-Mosk-Transcript.pdf

[Paul Trejo]

...."micro dots" were not widely heard of in 1963. There was a concerted effort to examine all of Oswald's "material" for them. The people who participated and directed this investigation obviously knew a lot more about Oswald and intelligence work than I, or even our esteemed expert on the subject, Mr. Paul Trejo (who conveniently ignored my question above).

Example on page 31:

http://www.courts.ca.gov/documents/Richard-Mosk-Transcript.pdf

Chris,

To directly address your question -- "Name me one murder suspect, other than Oswald, whose correspondence and notebooks were thoroughly searched for microdots.".

I don't know of one single murder suspect, other than Lee Harvey Oswald, whose entire written works were thoroughly searched for microdots.

But that's no big deal. Here's why.

In LHO's personal notebook, he directly used the word, "microdots." Now, in 1963 this term was only known to people close to Intelligence Agencies (including wannabes). So, just to be absolutely, squeaky clean certain about this, the Warren Commission had all of LHO's written works scoured for microdots.

See, the Warren Commission wasn't even certain that they could rely on the CIA for the truth, since the CIA is sworn to protect all of its clandestine work, on National Security grounds. So, they did this.

You cited two sources, Chris, including an interview with Justice Richard Mosk, who was deeply involved with the Warren Commission.

So -- yes -- LHO's personal papers were scoured. But nothing was found.

The question has arisen on this thread -- just because LHO used the word, "microdots" one time in his personal notebook -- does that prove that LHO was an Intelligence Agent?

Actually, no legitimate Intelligence Agent would write that word in his personal notebook!

Again, LHO was bright, but not bright enough. LHO taught himself Russian, but he still failed the Russian test. LHO was accepted into the ONI "dangle" operation in the USSR, but LHO quit abruptly because Marina Oswald wanted to move to the USA in a hurry.

LHO was a high-school dropout. He was not really CIA material. He was fine for the Marines. He was fine for the ONI. He was bright -- but he was not bright enough. He was still 23 years old for most of 1963. He was hot-headed and individualistic -- not really a CIA team player.

Plus, LHO tried to assassinate General Walker. That was a deal-breaker right there.

LHO was a mercenary in New Orleans -- in a secret mission to kill Fidel Castro -- but not as a CIA Agent. At the most, he was just one more "asset" or mercenary or soldier of fortune. In no way was LHO anything more than Gerry Patrick Hemming, or Frank Sturgis. On the contrary -- these guys looked down their noses at LHO -- the wannabe.

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

Edited October 27, 2016 by Paul Trejo

[Chris Newton]

In LHO's personal notebook, he directly used the word, "microdots." Now, in 1963 this term was only known to people close to Intelligence Agencies (including wannabes). So, just to be absolutely, squeaky clean certain about this, the Warren Commission had all of LHO's written works scoured for microdots.

Really?

That entry, in his notes, is Oswald's only reference to "micro dots"?

Are you really that lazy?

Edited October 27, 2016 by Chris Newton

[Chris Newton]

Oh, btw...

Now, in 1963 this term was only known to people close to Intelligence Agencies (including wannabes).

Wannabes got these in 1963:

not..

[Craig Carvalho]

Craig - you asked some good questions. What answers would you give? I'm having trouble connecting your opening statement about the Mafia with the questions later in your post.

Hi Paul, this is Craig Carvalho. Sorry for the overdue response to your last reply. I actually started typing a lengthy answer in the topic when I realized I had written to the wrong Paul... LOL!

As to your question... Of all the groups that had the motive, means, and opportunity, I see the mob as the main suspect/benefactor in the assassination.

Certainly there were others, especially those operating on the fringes, who may have been involved, (Oswald and Ruby are prime examples). But if I had to name specific individuals... again they would be Marcello and Trafficante.

Many would say that the mob was not sophisticated enough... I would agree. But when you factor in their relationship with the CIA and the sensitive information they must have gained access to, (Roselli being a main source through the CIA Miami station), I believe they could have pulled it off.

If what I believe to be true is true... that the president/AG initiated a plan to eliminate Walker via the CIA/organized crime, and the mob recruited Ruby to assist Oswald in the attempt, they had the one thing most necessary to succeed... a way to silence RFK and any investigation that would follow.

Oswald was silenced by Ruby, and Ruby was silenced for fear of retribution by Walker and the John Birchers.

I hope this clarifies my POV a bit.

Thanks for your encouragement Paul. I do appreciate it.

Regards,

Craig C.

[Chris Newton]

FBI SA's John Fain and Tom Carter apparently had good reason to ask Oswald "whether or not he has an espionage assignment".

Not proof, but another brick in the wall...

Btw... Why did he talk with the MVD?

[Paul Trejo]

FBI SA's John Fain and Tom Carter apparently had good reason to ask Oswald "whether or not he has an espionage assignment".

Not proof, but another brick in the wall...

Btw... Why did he talk with the MVD?

Chris,

The MVD is the USSR's "Ministry of Internal Affairs."

The only reason that FBI Agent John Fain interviewed Lee Harvey Oswald at all, was because LHO had been reported as a defector who had just entered the USA after 3 years in the USSR.

The key question for the FBI was this -- was Lee Harvey Oswald in the KGB? That was their sole concern.

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

Edited October 28, 2016 by Paul Trejo

[Paul Trejo]

Really?

That entry, in his notes, is Oswald's only reference to "micro dots"?

Are you really that lazy?

Chris,

If there were any other entries, it would only strengthen my point -- no genuine Intelligence Agent would go around writing in his personal papers anything about "microdots."

LHO was a wannabe. Not a child -- but from perhaps 16 years old -- watching TV shows -- LHO wanted to be a spy. He would read James Bond 007 novels.

So, LHO learned Russian. LHO learned radar in the Marines. LHO learned photography. LHO learned marksmanship. He was a good Marine.

LHO was ambitious. Very likely the ONI recruited him at age 19 to be part of its USSR "dangle" program.

But just as LHO failed the Russian exam, he also failed his "dangle" mission -- almost certainly -- he left the USSR before his mission was over (because Marina wanted to see the USA) and that is the best explanation for why LHO's Marine discharge was downgraded and he lived a life of dire poverty ever since.

To review -- LHO was a high-school drop-out. LHO could not drive a car. LHO could hardly spell. LHO could hardly hold down a minimum wage job.

LHO hoped and prayed for a CIA job -- but never made the grade.

Also -- LHO's pot-shot at General Walker was a deal-breaker. Who knew about it beside Marina? Roscoe White (the body-double of the BYP) knew, an Anticommunist who also showed up at 544 Camp Street.

LHO got involved with the wrong people when he joined 544 Camp Street in New Orleans. They had his number -- and he had no clue. LHO became a Patsy in the summer of 1963.

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

Edited October 28, 2016 by Paul Trejo

[Chris Newton]

LHO was a wannabe. Not a child -- but from perhaps 16 years old -- watching TV shows -- LHO wanted to be a spy. He would read James Bond 007 novels.

Allen Dulles read many of Fleming's novels. He was a wannabe too?

http://www.mitpressjournals.org/doi/abs/10.1162/JCWS_a_00310#.WBLWItxuhoM

Most of what you post here is innuendo and supposition slapped together with a dash of pure conjecture. Enough already.

[Paul Brancato]

Who besides you Paul T could believe that the same guy that tried to kill Walker was trying to get into Cuba to kill Castro? And then to top it off was involved in the assassination of JFK?

[Sandy Larsen]

Jim,

I get the impression that the only people Paul believes 100% are Marina Oswald and the CIA. (The latter unwittingly.)

You must add Marina's lover, Ruth P., "the magic christian" whom Paul coincidentally believes has also been unfairly treated by the CT community.

I place Ruth Paine under CIA. Same with George DeMohrenschildt.

[Sandy Larsen]

Just because somebody knows about microdots does not make them an Intelligence Agent -- CIA or otherwise.

On the contrary -- a CIA wannabe would also try to learn as much as he could about microdots.

It is a historical fact that Lee Harvey Oswald knew a CIA Agent by the name of Richard Case Nagell while he was in New Orleans during the summer of 1963.

Nagell was a genuine CIA Agent. Nagell said that he warned LHO that if LHO was successful in gaining entrance into Cuba through Mexico City, that Nagell would have to shoot LHO dead.

This was because Nagell was also an authentic double-agent, who was pretending to the USSR to be on their side. Since the USSR knew that LHO would only have murderous intentions toward Fidel Castro in Cuba, they would order Nagell to kill LHO dead if LHO was successful in getting passage into Cuba from Mexico City. (This is all presented by Dick Russell in his famous book, The Man Who Knew Too Much (1993)).

Nagell, for his part, would have to kill LHO just in order to keep the USSR in the dark about his true identity. Otherwise, it would have become clear to the USSR that Nagell was a double-agent. Luckily for Nagell -- and for LHO -- LHO failed to get an entry visa into Cuba from Mexico City there in September 1963.

My point is that Nagell and LHO had some communication in New Orleans. This doesn't prove that LHO was a CIA Agent -- far from it. It more likely shows that LHO believed that he was getting closer to his dream job of being a CIA Agent. By learning Russian and infiltrating the FPCC, it is plausible that LHO dreamed of being a double-agent one day -- just like Richard Case Nagell.

It is also plausible that LHO and Nagell would have spoken here and there about 'microdots.' LHO was a photography buff, after all.

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

Paul,

Why did the CIA ignore the warnings of their own man -- Richard Case Nagell -- when he informed them of the plot to kill the President of the United States? Doesn't that strike you as odd?

Of course if the CIA was involved in the assassination, it all makes sense.

[Sandy Larsen]

Just because somebody knows about microdots does not make them an Intelligence Agent -- CIA or otherwise.

On the contrary -- a CIA wannabe would also try to learn as much as he could about microdots.

It is a historical fact that Lee Harvey Oswald knew a CIA Agent by the name of Richard Case Nagell while he was in New Orleans during the summer of 1963.

Nagell was a genuine CIA Agent. Nagell said that he warned LHO that if LHO was successful in gaining entrance into Cuba through Mexico City, that Nagell would have to shoot LHO dead.

This was because Nagell was also an authentic double-agent, who was pretending to the USSR to be on their side. Since the USSR knew that LHO would only have murderous intentions toward Fidel Castro in Cuba, they would order Nagell to kill LHO dead if LHO was successful in getting passage into Cuba from Mexico City. (This is all presented by Dick Russell in his famous book, The Man Who Knew Too Much (1993)).

Nagell, for his part, would have to kill LHO just in order to keep the USSR in the dark about his true identity. Otherwise, it would have become clear to the USSR that Nagell was a double-agent. Luckily for Nagell -- and for LHO -- LHO failed to get an entry visa into Cuba from Mexico City there in September 1963.

My point is that Nagell and LHO had some communication in New Orleans. This doesn't prove that LHO was a CIA Agent -- far from it. It more likely shows that LHO believed that he was getting closer to his dream job of being a CIA Agent. By learning Russian and infiltrating the FPCC, it is plausible that LHO dreamed of being a double-agent one day -- just like Richard Case Nagell.

It is also plausible that LHO and Nagell would have spoken here and there about 'microdots.' LHO was a photography buff, after all.

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

Paul,

I take it that you believe Richard Case Nagell's story. So let me ask you a couple things.

1. If the CIA wouldn't make a patsy of one of their own -- as you've stated -- then why was Nagell worried that the CIA might make him one?

2. If Lee Harvey Oswald wasn't a CIA agent, then how did Nagell's thought of potentially being made a patsy himself originate? Surely he wasn't afraid that General Walker and his stooges might be out to trick him too?

[Paul Trejo]

Paul,

I take it that you believe Richard Case Nagell's story. So let me ask you a couple things.

1. If the CIA wouldn't make a patsy of one of their own -- as you've stated -- then why was Nagell worried that the CIA might make him one?

2. If Lee Harvey Oswald wasn't a CIA agent, then how did Nagell's thought of potentially being made a patsy himself originate? Surely he wasn't afraid that General Walker and his stooges might be out to trick him too?

Sandy,

I believe the story of Richard Case Nagell as far as it may be intelligible -- but he was deliberately mysterious -- always. It's more accurate to say that I accept Dick Russell's 1993 portrayal of Richard Case Nagell.

As for your questions:

(1) Richard Case Nagell was more than a little bit paranoid. He was a double-agent, and he didn't trust anybody, and he didn't know whom to trust -- eventually. At the last minute, he faked a bank robbery to get himself arrested. That's not the sign of a normal person. Nagell was at least a little bit crazy. But again, he was a double-agent. Who can live that crazy life-style?

(2) Richard Case Nagell was surely afraid of General Walker and his stooges. They were far more powerful than we, a half-century later, have yet imagined.

The exposure that Richard Case Nagell had was that he was a double-agent in the CIA. There were even CIA agents who weren't sure what side of the fence that Nagell was on. So, if General Walker and his stooges went after Nagell, they could dig up had plenty of solid evidence that Nagell was a Communist, and so, again, they could argue that the Communists killed JFK. That was their main goal.

There were Cuban mercenaries in New Orleans, Miami and Dallas who doubtless had seen Nagell in all the wrong places. Nagell, simply because he had been pretending to be a Communist, was afraid of the Radical Right in Dallas. He was right to be afraid.

LHO was not as smart as Nagell, because LHO failed to realize that by pretending to be a Communist, he had exposed himself to forces that even the CIA and FBI couldn't control -- the Radical Right in Dallas. Nagell realized this.

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

Edited October 28, 2016 by Paul Trejo

[Jim Hargrove]

Megathanks to Chris Newton for finding the Richard Mosk interview indicating that, when he worked as a Warren Commission attorney, he searched “Oswald’s” documents for microdots, an obvious indication that he suspected “Oswald” worked as an intelligence agent. Here’s what Mosk said near the top of page 31 of the PDF file Chris pointed to.

I also worked with the cryptologists in connection with seeing if any documents had microdots in them.

Q: What does that mean?

A: I guess there’s a way of communicating through using microdots. So we wanted to see if any

of Oswald’s materials had them. I prepared some of the attorneys for witnesses. So it was a full

range. I roamed through all areas. My office mate was John Hart Ely. He died not too long ago,

but he has written some important books.

Mosk said his office mate at the WC was John Hart Ely. Among other things, Ely was tasked with researching the early life of “Lee Harvey Oswald” and his mother. After reading Ely’s report, WC attorney Albert Jenner wrote to General Counsel J. Lee Rankin and said that details in Ely’s report “will require material alteration and, in some instances, omission.”

Pretty spooky guy, this “Lee Harvey Oswald!”