Chris Newton Posted November 16, 2016 Share Posted November 16, 2016 3 hours ago, Paul Trejo said: The main thing to remember about CIA operations during the Cold War is that the FBI and the CIA spent much of their time trying to avoid stepping on each others' toes. It's a legal question of jurisdiction. There is a tacit mythology in CT literature that the FBI reports to the CIA, which is higher somehow. That's incorrect. Both agencies fight crime. But the FBI fights crime on an Interstate level (leaving State matters to the local police) while the CIA fights crime on the International level. They make a firm line to keep off each other's toes. Mistakes are made. The Cold War confused things very much. The Communist threat was both International and Interstate. This is what confused everybody. Everything above is simply bullsh1t you made up. I could go through your entire post, and condemn it point for point, but that would be a waste of my time because you would simply make up an entire new line of bullsh1t. You ignore the true history of the FBI and the CIG to reach a conclusion that everyone is "confused". The only thing that "confuses" is your disinformation. Show me one author who believes the FBI reports to the CIA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Trejo Posted November 16, 2016 Share Posted November 16, 2016 (edited) 3 hours ago, Chris Newton said: ...Show me one author who believes the FBI reports to the CIA. Chris, No intelligent reader believes that the FBI reports to the CIA. So, why do people try to invent a CIA-did-it plot for the JFK assassination, when it is obvious that all the tampering with JFK evidence was done by J. Edgar Hoover and the FBI? That's the question. All the CIA-did-it CT's are consistently full of holes. Regards, --Paul Trejo Edited November 16, 2016 by Paul Trejo typos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Newton Posted November 16, 2016 Share Posted November 16, 2016 6 hours ago, Paul Trejo said: There is a tacit mythology in CT literature that the FBI reports to the CIA, which is higher somehow. That's incorrect. Both agencies fight crime. But the FBI fights crime on an Interstate level (leaving State matters to the local police) while the CIA fights crime on the International level. You wrote the above; "There is a tacit mythology in CT literature" and I asked you to show me any example. You can't so you pivot your fantasy argument elsewhere. Quote "No intelligent reader believes"... ...you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Hargrove Posted November 17, 2016 Author Share Posted November 17, 2016 (edited) 20 Facts Indicating “Lee Harvey Oswald” was a CIA Agent (New entries in red) 1. CIA accountant James Wilcott said he made payments to an encrypted account for “Oswald or the Oswald Project.” 2. Antonio Veciana said he saw LHO meeting with CIA’s Maurice Bishop/David Atlee Phillips in Dallas in August 1963. 3. A 1978 CIA memo indicates that a CIA operations officer “had run an agent into the USSR, that man having met a Russian girl and eventually marrying her,” a case very similar to Oswald’s and clearly indicating that the Agency ran a “false defector” program in the 1950s. 4. Robert Webster and LHO "defected" a few months apart in 1959, both tried to "defect" on a Saturday, both possessed "sensitive" information of possible value to the Russians, both were befriended by Marina Prusakova, and both returned to the United States in the spring of 1962. 5. Richard Sprague, Richard Schweiker, and CIA agents Donald Norton and Joseph Newbrough all said LHO was associated with the CIA. 6. CIA employee Donald Deneslya said he read reports of a CIA agent who had worked at a radio factory in Minsk and returned to the US with a Russian wife and child. 7. Kenneth Porter, employee of CIA-connected Collins Radio, left his family to marry (and no doubt monitor) Marina Oswald after LHO’s death. 8. George Joannides, case officer and paymaster for DRE (which LHO had attempted to infiltrate) was put in charge of lying to the HSCA and never told them of his relationship to DRE. 9. For his achievements, Joannides was given a medal by the CIA. 10. FBI took Oswald off the watch list at the same time a CIA cable gave him a clean bill of political health, weeks after Oswald’s New Orleans arrest and less than two months before the assassination. 11. Oswald’s lengthy “Lives of Russian Workers” essay reads like a pretty good intelligence report. 12. Oswald’s possessions were searched for microdots. 13. Oswald owned an expensive Minox spy camera, which the FBI tried to make disappear. 14. Even the official cover story of the radar operator near American U-2 planes defecting to Russia, saying he would give away all his secrets, and returning home without penalty smells like a spy story. 15. CIA Richard Case Nagell clearly knew about the plot to assassinate JFK and LHO’s relation to it, but the CIA ignored his warnings. 16. LHO always seemed poor as a church mouse, until it was time to go “on assignment.” For his Russian adventure, we’re to believe he saved all the money he needed for first class European hotels and private tour guides in Moscow from the non-convertible USMC script he saved. In the summer of 1963, he once again seemed to have enough money to travel abroad to Communist nations. 17. To this day, the CIA claims it never interacted with Oswald, that it didn’t even bother debriefing him after the “defection.” What utter bs…. 18. After he “defected” to the Soviet Union in 1959, bragging to U.S. embassy personnel in Moscow that he would tell the Russians everything he knew about U.S. military secrets, he returns to the U.S. without punishment and is then in 1963 given the OK to travel to Cuba and the Soviet Union again! 19. Allen Dulles, the CIA director fired by JFK, and the Warren Commission clearly wanted the truth hidden from the public to protect sources and methods of intelligence agencies such as the CIA. Earl Warren said, “Full disclosure was not possible for reasons of national security.” 20. President Kennedy and the CIA clearly were at war with each other in the weeks immediately before his assassination, and “Oswald” was the CIA’s pawn. Sorry for the repeat, but I'd like to keep the above post up at least once on every page of this thread. This is the subject matter under discussion here. I'll try to get a thread going on Marina's truthiness asap after Thanksgiving. Edited November 17, 2016 by Jim Hargrove Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Trejo Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 (edited) All these moves just to ignore the main points here. I've asked readers to comment about the confession of Volkmar Schmidt to FRONTLINE video, on YouTube, that he talked LHO into shooting at General Walker. Here is the link again: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sAB5C0A7nL4] Start at minute 55:30 and watch for about two minutes to hear this confession by Volkmar Schmidt. It is confirmed, by the way, in George De Mohrenschildt's manuscript, I'm a Patsy! I'm a Patsy! (1977). Tell me what you think about Volkmar Schmidt. By the way, a stellar member of our Forum, the late Bill Kelly, also interviewed Volkmar Schmidt more than 20 years ago - and completely accepted his account. Here is the link: http://jfkcountercoup.blogspot.com/2008/01/volkmar-schmidt-interview.html This is really nothing new -- but to a lot of people it seems to be. Regards, --Paul Trejo Edited November 17, 2016 by Paul Trejo more than 20 years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Hargrove Posted November 19, 2016 Author Share Posted November 19, 2016 21 Facts Indicating ”Lee Harvey Oswald” was a CIA Agent (New entries in red) 1. CIA accountant James Wilcott said he made payments to an encrypted account for “Oswald or the Oswald Project.” 2. Antonio Veciana said he saw LHO meeting with CIA’s Maurice Bishop/David Atlee Phillips in Dallas in August 1963. 3. A 1978 CIA memo indicates that a CIA operations officer “had run an agent into the USSR, that man having met a Russian girl and eventually marrying her,” a case very similar to Oswald’s and clearly indicating that the Agency ran a “false defector” program in the 1950s. 4. Robert Webster and LHO "defected" a few months apart in 1959, both tried to "defect" on a Saturday, both possessed "sensitive" information of possible value to the Russians, both were befriended by Marina Prusakova, and both returned to the United States in the spring of 1962. 5. Richard Sprague, Richard Schweiker, and CIA agents Donald Norton and Joseph Newbrough all said LHO was associated with the CIA. 6. CIA employee Donald Deneslya said he read reports of a CIA agent who had worked at a radio factory in Minsk and returned to the US with a Russian wife and child. 7. Kenneth Porter, employee of CIA-connected Collins Radio, left his family to marry (and no doubt monitor) Marina Oswald after LHO’s death. 8. George Joannides, case officer and paymaster for DRE (which LHO had attempted to infiltrate) was put in charge of lying to the HSCA and never told them of his relationship to DRE. 9. For his achievements, Joannides was given a medal by the CIA. 10. FBI took Oswald off the watch list at the same time a CIA cable gave him a clean bill of political health, weeks after Oswald’s New Orleans arrest and less than two months before the assassination. 11. Oswald’s lengthy “Lives of Russian Workers” essay reads like a pretty good intelligence report. 12. Oswald’s possessions were searched for microdots. 13. Oswald owned an expensive Minox spy camera, which the FBI tried to make disappear. 14. Even the official cover story of the radar operator near American U-2 planes defecting to Russia, saying he would give away all his secrets, and returning home without penalty smells like a spy story. 15. CIA Richard Case Nagell clearly knew about the plot to assassinate JFK and LHO’s relation to it, but the CIA ignored his warnings. 16. LHO always seemed poor as a church mouse, until it was time to go “on assignment.” For his Russian adventure, we’re to believe he saved all the money he needed for first class European hotels and private tour guides in Moscow from the non-convertible USMC script he saved. In the summer of 1963, he once again seemed to have enough money to travel abroad to Communist nations. 17. To this day, the CIA claims it never interacted with Oswald, that it didn’t even bother debriefing him after the “defection.” What utter bs…. 18. After he “defected” to the Soviet Union in 1959, bragging to U.S. embassy personnel in Moscow that he would tell the Russians everything he knew about U.S. military secrets, he returns to the U.S. without punishment and is then in 1963 given the OK to travel to Cuba and the Soviet Union again! 19. Allen Dulles, the CIA director fired by JFK, and the Warren Commission clearly wanted the truth hidden from the public to protect sources and methods of intelligence agencies such as the CIA. Earl Warren said, “Full disclosure was not possible for reasons of national security.” 20. In 1978, the government of Cuba announced that “Lee Harvey Oswald” was a “CIA AGENT.” 21. President Kennedy and the CIA clearly were at war with each other in the weeks immediately before his assassination, and “Oswald” was the CIA’s pawn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Trejo Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 (edited) None of these so-called facts proves that Lee Harvey Oswald was a CIA agent. These claims only cite guesswork. There are other, better explanations for the JFK conspiracy, that account for more of the facts, and more of the witness testimony. Lee Harvey Oswald was a CIA wannabe -- he always wanted to get into the CIA, but he didn't have enough talent. In the end, Lee Harvey Oswald was exploited by right-wing demagogues in the effort to assassinate Fidel Castro. This is what Oswald was doing in New Orleans and Mexico City in the summer of 1963, centered around 544 Camp Street, as Jim Garrison revealed in 1968. Failing in that task as a flunky CIA asset, Lee Harvey Oswald was tagged as the Patsy in a Radical Right civilian plot that was centered in Dallas, Texas. That's what the evidence really shows. Regards, --Paul Trejo Edited November 21, 2016 by Paul Trejo grammar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Trejo Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 (edited) On 11/18/2016 at 7:55 PM, Jim Hargrove said: 21 Facts Indicating ”Lee Harvey Oswald” was a CIA Agent (New entries in red). 20. In 1978, the government of Cuba announced that “Lee Harvey Oswald” was a “CIA AGENT.” 21. President Kennedy and the CIA clearly were at war with each other in the weeks immediately before his assassination, and “Oswald” was the CIA’s pawn. Jim, Regarding what the Cuban Government said in 1978 -- Cuba was never an authority about the CIA. Regarding JFK and the CIA in 1963, although JFK was disappointed by the CIA fiasco of the Bay of Pigs, actually JFK increased CIA funding in 1963. So your guesswork is entirely without foundation. Finally, just repeating that famous quote from the New York Times proves nothing whatsoever. Rumor, gossip and exaggeration filled the pages of the Times -- then as now. Regards, --Paul Trejo Edited November 21, 2016 by Paul Trejo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Newton Posted December 7, 2016 Share Posted December 7, 2016 On 10/12/2016 at 10:53 AM, Jim Hargrove said: n a 1997 interview Robert Webster told JFK researcher and author Dick Russell that he met Marina Prusakova in Moscow in the summer of 1959 and spoke with her in English. Webster said that Marina spoke English well, but with a heavy accent. A year after Webster was sent to Leningrad by the Soviet Government, 400 miles from Moscow, he met Marina again shortly after he applied for an exit visa so that he could return to the US Jim, Have you done any research that revealed the name "Edward Neunson" in regards to Marina? Why I ask (and this is very curious): https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=10009#relPageId=86&tab=page Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandy Larsen Posted December 7, 2016 Share Posted December 7, 2016 23 minutes ago, Chris Newton said: Jim, Have you done any research that revealed the name "Edward Neunson" in regards to Marina? Why I ask (and this is very curious): https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=10009#relPageId=86&tab=page Son of Walter Carl Neunson, aka Walter Carl Neuson. FWIW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Newton Posted December 7, 2016 Share Posted December 7, 2016 1 minute ago, Sandy Larsen said: Son of Walter Carl Neunson, aka Walter Carl Neuson. FWIW Thanks Sandy. I had that from the FBI reports. Walter was sending letters in Russian to both Marina and Ruth P. after the assassination about an offer to Marina to move to NJ and live with his family and local Russia ex-pats. What I find amazing is that Marina met the son, Edward, in Leningrad and visited his apartment. This would have been before Oswald and after Webster(?). Was the son an American? Why was he in Russia? It seems to be raining young Americans for Marina. Strange. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Hargrove Posted December 7, 2016 Author Share Posted December 7, 2016 (edited) This is interesting, not only for Marina’s apparent contact with Edward Neunson, but also for the CIA and FBI efforts to paint the Neunson family as fruitcakes unworthy of anything but a cursory look. The airtel Chris linked above refers to Walter Neunson as a "mental case." There are a couple of docs from the Armstrong collection at Baylor that might be of interest: The Federal Register v.31 #212 of 11/1/1966 lists, in a final, final list of “Oswald’s Possessions,” item D263: D263. One-page handwritten letter dated 11-28-63 to Mrs. Ruth Paine from “Walter Neunson.” This list apparently was made after the FBI expanded the DPD list following the secret xfer of the “possessions” to and from DC. For example, a “Minox camera obtained from Ruth Paine” is listed. There’s also this: Edited December 7, 2016 by Jim Hargrove Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Newton Posted December 7, 2016 Share Posted December 7, 2016 6 hours ago, Jim Hargrove said: The airtel Chris linked above refers to Walter Neunson as a "mental case." This is SOP for the FBI. They refer to Mrs. Oswald's Attorney, Mark Lane all the time as "Mark Lane, known pervert, ...". The irony is that these days the name "J. Edgar Hoover" is synonymous with "closeted cross-dressing homosexual". As to the important stuff, I merely had to read the next page to find out the details I was asking about. Edward Neunson was, apparently, raised in Leningrad and lived there with his mother and other siblings. I wonder if Marina was visiting "Edward's apartment" or was it really the "Neunson apartment"? https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=10009#relPageId=87&tab=page Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Hargrove Posted December 8, 2016 Author Share Posted December 8, 2016 19 hours ago, Chris Newton said: This is SOP for the FBI. They refer to Mrs. Oswald's Attorney, Mark Lane all the time as "Mark Lane, known pervert, ...". The irony is that these days the name "J. Edgar Hoover" is synonymous with "closeted cross-dressing homosexual". Yeah, but it was SOP only for witnesses and others who didn’t support the Official Cover-up®. Another perfect example was Ralph Yates, whose story of the second Oswald or Oswald impostor or whatever you want to call him hitch-hiking with “curtain rods” threatened to blow the cover on the whole elaborate set-up of the patsy. So Yates got the “treatment.” I think there’s even a memo from Hoover or some FBI honcho calling for him to be “completely discredited,” or something like that. The point I was trying to make is that it would appear that several Neunsons were getting that same “treatment,” which may well mean they knew something Hoover didn’t want known. As a complete guess, I’d speculate it was something strongly suggesting Marina had Soviet intel ties, something that needed to be suppressed to kill the Cuba/USSR connection to the assassination that Phillips and others had worked so hard to establish, and that some people are STILL TRYING TO PUSH TODAY! Thanks very much for pointing out this Neunson angle. I wonder if there is anything more that could be discovered about it. I’m going to try to find the translation of what appears from the airtel to be Exhibit D-248. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James DiEugenio Posted December 8, 2016 Share Posted December 8, 2016 I would say this definitely merits further study. I never read of this guy before. Is he is any books? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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