Yes, Oswald was an Intelligence agent

[James DiEugenio]

I was convinced before that but John's book went much further than anyone else had before in that regard.

And he did it with, almost exclusively, declassified files.

John's work on Angleton and Phillips was really extraordinary.

I used his book, the Lopez Report, Armstrong's chapter on MC, Newman's essay in Probe--and a few other sources-- to write my chapter on Mexico City in Reclaiming Parkland.

That chapter was cut out of the hardcover version, as was half my work on Bugliosi and his career. But the trade paper is out now, and its all restored. If I may give myself a (shameless) plug, you can get it at Amazon now.

Edited October 17, 2016 by James DiEugenio

[Thomas Graves]

https://www.maryferr...ml?docId=111200

-- Tommy

Good one. Did you see page 6? Capt. P may have an intel background. Just a coincidence.

Chris,

Not sure which page you are referring to. For purposes of identification, what is it exactly that "jumps out at you" on that page?

Her uncle Prusakov was a colonel in the MVD, i.e. Secret Police. (MVD was known as NKVD before 1946.)

Probably played volleyball with Kostikov back in the day. (lol)

-- Tommy

Edited October 17, 2016 by Thomas Graves

[Paul Brancato]

Marina is certainly no agent now, and I doubt she ever was one. I can't help but view the spy vs spy world as a weird and very convenient myth. When JFK and Krushchev tried to change things they were both stopped by their own hardliners. Nazis were a major part of our intelligence apparatus, and from what I can tell the same is true for the Soviets. Money and power are great motivators.

So - Marina's uncle Prusakov was a colonel in the MVD. What does that prove? It doesn't look like Marina raised any red flags when she was allowed to emigrate with LHO.

Angleton spent his career looking for Soviet moles, and never figured out that his friend Philby was the biggest one, even after the Soviet ring was busted. Meanwhile, he dismissed Nosenko, from all appearances a real defector, and championed Golitsyn, who looks like a fake one to me. I used to think Angleton must have been the biggest mole of all. But he had such good fascist credentials. So at some point I signed on to the idea that the Cold War was a cover story for military build ups, and that hardliners on both sides have more in common than not.

Edited October 17, 2016 by Paul Brancato

[Thomas Graves]

Marina is certainly no agent now, and I doubt she ever was one. I can't help but view the spy vs spy world as a weird and very convenient myth. When JFK and Krushchev tried to change things they were both stopped by their own hardliners. Nazis were a major part of our intelligence apparatus, and from what I can tell the same is true for the Soviets. Money and power are great motivators.

So - Marina's uncle Prusakov was a colonel in the MVD. What does that prove? It doesn't look like Marina raised any red flags when she was allowed to emigrate with LHO.

Angleton spent his career looking for Soviet moles, and never figured out that his friend Philby was the biggest one, even after the Soviet ring was busted. Meanwhile, he dismissed Nosenko, from all appearances a real defector, and championed Golitsyn, who looks like a fake one to me. I used to think Angleton must have been the biggest mole of all. But he had such good fascist credentials. So at some point I signed on to the idea that the Cold War was a cover story for military build ups, and that hardliners on both sides have more in common than not.

Dear Paul,

The interesting thing in the CIA document that Chris pointed out is that Marina listed her other uncle, but but didn't mention the Prusakovs (with whom she was living), in her application for a U.S. visa.

Possible benign explanation: She was afraid she'd be refused if she did?

-- Tommy

[Jim Hargrove]

Marina is certainly no agent now, and I doubt she ever was one. I can't help but view the spy vs spy world as a weird and very convenient myth. When JFK and Krushchev tried to change things they were both stopped by their own hardliners. Nazis were a major part of our intelligence apparatus, and from what I can tell the same is true for the Soviets. Money and power are great motivators.

So - Marina's uncle Prusakov was a colonel in the MVD. What does that prove? It doesn't look like Marina raised any red flags when she was allowed to emigrate with LHO.

Angleton spent his career looking for Soviet moles, and never figured out that his friend Philby was the biggest one, even after the Soviet ring was busted. Meanwhile, he dismissed Nosenko, from all appearances a real defector, and championed Golitsyn, who looks like a fake one to me. I used to think Angleton must have been the biggest mole of all. But he had such good fascist credentials. So at some point I signed on to the idea that the Cold War was a cover story for military build ups, and that hardliners on both sides have more in common than not.

Some people at the CIA clearly suspected Marina was a Russian agent because there is a CIA report indicating 29 reasons to suspect Marina was KGB or MVD. I haven't been able to find it yet, but if I do I'll post it or a link to it.

[Chris Newton]

Some people at the CIA clearly suspected Marina was a Russian agent because there is a CIA report indicating 29 reasons to suspect Marina was KGB or MVD. I haven't been able to find it yet, but if I do I'll post it or a link to it.

Jim,

I think I saw that document before too. It's one of Deryabin's who wrote a report that was absolutely scathing to Marina's story. Deryabin was a defector (and CIA asset) who was analyzing Nosenko's files, as well as all of the testimony of Marina and all the Russian language documents and letters related to the investigation.

Deryabin caused a big security "flap" when he showed up to testify before the HSCA and he had brought with him "top secret" Nosenko files, (that had not been released to the HSCA), which he used for reference.

[Chris Newton]

Not sure which page you are referring to. For purposes of identification, what is it exactly that "jumps out at you" on that page?

Well for starters at the bottom of the page (pg.6) it suggests that during the war (1944) Capt. P had at least 3 missions in the U.S. In 1960 and 1961 he was part of the Soviet Trade Delegation in the UK and Ghana as a TDY. Note that the apartment complex that he lived in was only for MVD.

[Craig Carvalho]

Just a theory regarding Oswald's trip to Mexico City as it relates to my earlier post.

Although I will need to do much more in the way of research to substantiate this, I would simply like to "throw it out there" and get some input.

The timeline of events surrounding Oswald's activities prior to his trip would suggest, at least me, that his intentions were most definitely to obtain a travel visa to Cuba. These intentions I believe were entirely supported by his intelligence contacts. As to what specifics Oswald may have known regarding his contacts and their intentions, we can only speculate.

Oswald is befriended by DeMohrenshidlt, who first gets the "go ahead" from the CIA.

Oswald is briefed on the activities of Edwin Walker by both DeMorehnshildt and associates.

Oswald has correspondence with Soviet embassy in Washington - February 1963 - regarding return to Soviet Union.

Could this have included his notes and photographs compiled prior to the attempt on general Walker?

Oswald orders a rifle through the mail in March of 1963.

Oswald makes the attempt on Walker's life April 1963.

Oswald relocates to New Orleans immediately following this attempt.

Oswald attempts to infiltrate the DRC.

Oswald garners the attention of the media and issues a statement/report to the FBI, (FBI SA Quigley interviews Oswald at Oswald's request).

Oswald arrives in Mexico City.

During his unusual weekend visit to both the Cuban and Soviet embassies, Oswald establishes contact with Kostikov.

Oswald inquires as to whether or not "they" have been contacted by the Soviet embassy in Washington.

Not a bad "resume" when one adds to it his initial "defection". But who was helping him put it together?

Oswald returns from Mexico, and is removed from the "watch" list by the FBI.

As we now know the CIA had been engaged in a program designated HT Lingual. This program involved the monitoring of certain individuals via the U.S. Postal Service. It is also a well known fact that in the 1960's all correspondence coming into and leaving Soviet embassies were routinely screened by the FBI.

If Oswald had sent materials to the Soviet embassy in Washington that included evidence of his intention to assassinate a retired army general this would have rounded out his "resume" as a communist sympathizer to say the least. It could have been seen by Oswald, and others, as a trump card to be played in his attempt to obtain his Cuban visa. In order to succeed in this Oswald would have to have been given assurances that these materials would be allowed through. I believe this was a deception perpetrated upon Oswald by his handlers.

Who ended up in possession of this material? I believe the answer lies in the fact(s) that FBI SA Hosty was assigned to both Oswald and Walker, and his subsequent destruction of the "Oswald note".

Craig C.

[Thomas Graves]

Not sure which page you are referring to. For purposes of identification, what is it exactly that "jumps out at you" on that page?

Well for starters at the bottom of the page (pg.6) it suggests that during the war (1944) Capt. P had at least 3 missions in the U.S. In 1960 and 1961 he was part of the Soviet Trade Delegation in the UK and Ghana as a TDY. Note that the apartment complex that he lived in was only for MVD.

Ah ha. I guess I was looking at pages 5, 6, and 7 of a different, but long, CIA file.

And my confusion was compounded by the fact that you were talking about Captain Printsev, while silly old me was still thinking about Marina's uncle, Colonel Prusakov !

My bad. Totally. I should have noticed the "Capt." you wrote and realized you weren't talking about the Colonel, et al., at all.

Goes to show that even lowly "2-star" members of this club can make a horrendous mistake from time to time.

-- Tommy

Edited October 17, 2016 by Thomas Graves

[Paul Brancato]

Craig - according to Antonio Veciana in 2014, Davod Atlee Phillips put Oswald up to the task of getting a Cuban visa, all the while knowing it would come to nothing.

[Craig Carvalho]

Craig - according to Antonio Veciana in 2014, Davod Atlee Phillips put Oswald up to the task of getting a Cuban visa, all the while knowing it would come to nothing.

Yes Paul. I realized this after viewing the link posted here in this topic. Quite a revealing video. I can remember Mr. Veciana's interview he did many years ago, (I forget which documentary it was part of), where he refused to identify or confirm Phillips' role as Maurice Bishop. Gives one hope that the truth may still come to the surface.

[Chris Newton]

Jim,

This may be the document that you mentioned concerning Marina's possible intelligence connections:

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=95568#relPageId=79&tab=page

[Thomas Graves]

Jim,

This may be the document that you mentioned concerning Marina's possible intelligence connections:

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=95568#relPageId=79&tab=page

Excellent questions, all. I wonder if any of them were ever answered.

Why do I keep hearing "96 Tears" all of a sudden?

Why? Why? Why?

Must be the 29 questions. And the sunglasses!

-- Tommy

Edited October 17, 2016 by Thomas Graves

[Chris Newton]

Tommy,

#10. possibly explains why her stories have been erratic over time.

#12. LOL

[Thomas Graves]

Tommy,

#10. possibly explains why her stories have been erratic over time.

#12. LOL

Chris,

Yep.

Twenty-nine questions. Hmm.

That's a disconcertingly high number of questions, given the context.

No wonder Hosty thought she was nash.

-- Tommy

Edited October 18, 2016 by Thomas Graves