"Let's get our story straight"

[Steve Thomas]

Larry,

Steve, just in general I don't know that the average person would have tweaked to it being a fake if he just flashed it; I held a military ID for four years and probably never looked at it that closely. These days we examine such things closely but back then unless he was going though a real security check or being picked up for a crime it probably would have passed.

Your question on why a military ID is a good one though, a military ID can be used for little things like getting you on base to use the PX or similar facilities. But there is some risk there and no sign of Oswald doing that. A military ID is useful in applying for benefits, but only in the right name - so much for that. It strikes me a military ID might be useful to impress someone you are trying to convince of your credentials as a military type, as a marine. Oswald did try that sort of thing with exiles in Miami, but in his own name and for that he used his training manual as support.

Lets go back to New Orleans for a bit, its pretty clear that Oswald was associating with individuals not known to the local community including Cuban exiles, those folks were suspected of being Castro agents even by certain exiles there. Nagell tells us they were exiles from out of town pretending to be Castro agents. What if Oswald was trying to pitch himself as a former military type turned Castro supporter - ala FPCC - and sneaky enough to be using aliases and false ID. Perhaps it was a sort of pitch to serve his role in being a dangle. In fact it might even have been given to him for just that purpose.

Or you can fast forward to Dallas where he appears to have once again been "dangling" himself, perhaps at the House on Harlandale. I also find those two missing weeks of interest. Bottom line though is that a fake military ID is probably not a good thing for use with the actual military but if you are trying to impress somebody with your being a marine it might be worthwhile.

You are probably right that Oswald would have "just flashed it".

If you look closely at it, the card forgery itself is pretty badly botched.

I wonder if it had more to do with the name and the signature than the card itself.

And the "dangle" with non-English speaking exiles is a pretty good assumption I think.

As far as the missing two weeks goes, I've looked into that pretty extensively.

The FBI was trying to figure that out as early as December, 1963 when Marina was interviewed by the FBI and as late at May, 1964 when Alexandra de Mohrenschildt testified before the Warren Commission.

I don't know if they ever figured it out.

Indications are that he moved somewhere in Oak Cliff. The de Mohrenshildts, the Taylors, and George Bouhe all thought so.

(I personally believe that it was somewhere on N. Beckley).

I loved Jeanne de Mohrenschildt's response to this question:

http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/demohr_j.htm

"I said, "For God sakes, if we are to help them, I cannot race to Oak Cliff to help them with this or that"--if she had to go to the doctor. Why wouldn't they take a little place near us, it will be much easier for me to help her."

"He had some reasons to live far away.
I don't know if anybody else mentioned that to you. That was everybody's impression. For some particular reason, he moved all the way out."

Dennis Ofstein was interviewed by the FBI on January 29, 1964. He was specifically asked that question. Do you know where Oswald was living between October 19 and November 3, 1962? Ofstein said no.(Gary Taylor, who was periodically giving rides to Oswald around that time also got a visit from the FBI on January 29th. All he could say was that he picked up Oswald at the curb outside of the YMCA, but he couldn't say Oswald was actually living there).

Dennis Ofstein, a "Monterey Mary", who studied Russian at the Monterey School of Languages for a year, who spent his military tour of duty with the

507^th USASA Group, Heilbronn, West Germany whose mission it was to intercept and translate Russian and East German military traffic, and who worked "side by side" with Oswald and taught him everything he knew about enlarging and reducing prints, opaqueing negatives, and making clean prints - exactly the skills Alwyn Cole, a questioned documents expert of the Department of the Treasury, told the WC you would need to forge documents, and who told the WC that's what was done with the Oswald SS card to turn it into the Hidell SS card.

And, speaking of Ofstein, in his WC testimony he said,

Mr. JENNER. Do you know whether this company has done any confidential or secret work for any agency of the United States?
Mr. OFSTEIN. I don't know the nature of the classification. I do know that they do work for the U.S. Government.
Mr. JENNER. Have you ever participated in any of that work?
Mr. OFSTEIN. Only during strike--approximately 2 weeks.

Do you have any idea what Ofstein is referring to here?

Who was on strike?

If the JCS employees are on strike, why is Ofstein doing work on behalf of the U.S. Government at that particular moment?

Does the term "during strike" refer to something besides a strike by the employees?

Are these two weeks the same two weeks Oswald goes "missing"?

Mr. JENNER. Was the problem with the Cuban nation or with Mr. Castro or any of Castro's activities ever discussed?
Mr. OFSTEIN. “Yes, sir; at one time when they were having a little difficulty down there, I don't recall just what the difficulty was at the time, but I made a rather derogatory remark about Fidel Castro's ancestry...”

The “little difficulty”? The Cuban Military Crisis.

I've tried to think of something else that was going on in the fall of 1962 that Oswald may have been involved in.

But so far, I haven't come up with a plausible need for a fake Hidell ID.

From your research, have you ever encountered the word HIDELL in a military intelligence connotation?

It doesn't appear to be a CIA cryptonym and I haven't encountered it in any FBI operation that I'm aware of like COINTELPRO.

Steve Thomas

[Larry Hancock]

Steve, the only possible military intelligence connections I've seen are the Far Eastern ones discussed by Richard Case Nagell and they have nothing to do with the U.S. On the other hand, Dick Russell presents an interesting discussion of how the name may indeed have come from Nagell - certainly the timing matches. The other point is the "also poorly" done military ID card connecting Nagell with Oswald. I almost have to wonder if they were not done at the same time, they have many of the same issues.

In general terms having an ID that is not backstopped in any fashion is pretty stupid because the thing falls apart at the first check - so other than being able to "flash" it to people who have no capability to check it, the ID is meaningless. And there is no sign that Oswald did much to create a true backstop for the identity. If he had wanted to really establish a false identity for himself he could have done so with a bit more effort, but he didn't. The other thing that really makes it stupid is carrying two sets of identification - now that is less of a deal with Oswald given that he was not carrying a drivers license, credit cards etc. But even an Oswald library card or a library card with another name gets you in trouble if somebody asks for your billfold.

So...I think its very interesting but we should keep in mind its not really a true second identity nor even much of an alias.

[Thomas Graves]

Larry,

Steve, just in general I don't know that the average person would have tweaked to it being a fake if he just flashed it; I held a military ID for four years and probably never looked at it that closely. These days we examine such things closely but back then unless he was going though a real security check or being picked up for a crime it probably would have passed.

Your question on why a military ID is a good one though, a military ID can be used for little things like getting you on base to use the PX or similar facilities. But there is some risk there and no sign of Oswald doing that. A military ID is useful in applying for benefits, but only in the right name - so much for that. It strikes me a military ID might be useful to impress someone you are trying to convince of your credentials as a military type, as a marine. Oswald did try that sort of thing with exiles in Miami, but in his own name and for that he used his training manual as support.

Lets go back to New Orleans for a bit, its pretty clear that Oswald was associating with individuals not known to the local community including Cuban exiles, those folks were suspected of being Castro agents even by certain exiles there. Nagell tells us they were exiles from out of town pretending to be Castro agents. What if Oswald was trying to pitch himself as a former military type turned Castro supporter - ala FPCC - and sneaky enough to be using aliases and false ID. Perhaps it was a sort of pitch to serve his role in being a dangle. In fact it might even have been given to him for just that purpose.

Or you can fast forward to Dallas where he appears to have once again been "dangling" himself, perhaps at the House on Harlandale. I also find those two missing weeks of interest. Bottom line though is that a fake military ID is probably not a good thing for use with the actual military but if you are trying to impress somebody with your being a marine it might be worthwhile.

You are probably right that Oswald would have "just flashed it".

If you look closely at it, the card forgery itself is pretty badly botched.

I wonder if it had more to do with the name and the signature than the card itself.

And the "dangle" with non-English speaking exiles is a pretty good assumption I think.

As far as the missing two weeks goes, I've looked into that pretty extensively.

The FBI was trying to figure that out as early as December, 1963 when Marina was interviewed by the FBI and as late at May, 1964 when Alexandra de Mohrenschildt testified before the Warren Commission.

I don't know if they ever figured it out.

Indications are that he moved somewhere in Oak Cliff. The de Mohrenshildts, the Taylors, and George Bouhe all thought so.

(I personally believe that it was somewhere on N. Beckley).

I loved Jeanne de Mohrenschildt's response to this question:

http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/demohr_j.htm

"I said, "For God sakes, if we are to help them, I cannot race to Oak Cliff to help them with this or that"--if she had to go to the doctor. Why wouldn't they take a little place near us, it will be much easier for me to help her."

"He had some reasons to live far away.

I don't know if anybody else mentioned that to you. That was everybody's impression. For some particular reason, he moved all the way out."

Dennis Ofstein was interviewed by the FBI on January 29, 1964. He was specifically asked that question. Do you know where Oswald was living between October 19 and November 3, 1962? Ofstein said no.(Gary Taylor, who was periodically giving rides to Oswald around that time also got a visit from the FBI on January 29th. All he could say was that he picked up Oswald at the curb outside of the YMCA, but he couldn't say Oswald was actually living there).

Dennis Ofstein, a "Monterey Mary", who studied Russian at the Monterey School of Languages for a year, who spent his military tour of duty with the

507^th USASA Group, Heilbronn, West Germany whose mission it was to intercept and translate Russian and East German military traffic, and who worked "side by side" with Oswald and taught him everything he knew about enlarging and reducing prints, opaqueing negatives, and making clean prints - exactly the skills Alwyn Cole, a questioned documents expert of the Department of the Treasury, told the WC you would need to forge documents, and who told the WC that's what was done with the Oswald SS card to turn it into the Hidell SS card.

And, speaking of Ofstein, in his WC testimony he said,

Mr. JENNER. Do you know whether this company has done any confidential or secret work for any agency of the United States?

Mr. OFSTEIN. I don't know the nature of the classification. I do know that they do work for the U.S. Government.

Mr. JENNER. Have you ever participated in any of that work?

Mr. OFSTEIN. Only during strike--approximately 2 weeks.

Do you have any idea what Ofstein is referring to here?

Who was on strike?

If the JCS employees are on strike, why is Ofstein doing work on behalf of the U.S. Government at that particular moment?

Does the term "during strike" refer to something besides a strike by the employees?

Are these two weeks the same two weeks Oswald goes "missing"?

Mr. JENNER. Was the problem with the Cuban nation or with Mr. Castro or any of Castro's activities ever discussed?

Mr. OFSTEIN. “Yes, sir; at one time when they were having a little difficulty down there, I don't recall just what the difficulty was at the time, but I made a rather derogatory remark about Fidel Castro's ancestry...”

The “little difficulty”? The Cuban Military Crisis.

I've tried to think of something else that was going on in the fall of 1962 that Oswald may have been involved in.

But so far, I haven't come up with a plausible need for a fake Hidell ID.

From your research, have you ever encountered the word HIDELL in a military intelligence connotation?

It doesn't appear to be a CIA cryptonym and I haven't encountered it in any FBI operation that I'm aware of like COINTELPRO.

Steve Thomas

Steve,

I don't know, but maybe the all the "little places" for rent in the Demohrenschildt's neighborhood were too expensive for the Oswald's?

Also, it seems to me that Ofstein's "two-week strike" would have been written about in the local newspapers.

-- Tommy

Edited October 28, 2016 by Thomas Graves

[Mark Knight]

Were the Jaggers-Chiles Stovall workers represented by Dallas Typographical Union Local 173?

If so, did the union go on strike in October 1962?

[Thomas Graves]

Were the Jaggers-Chiles Stovall workers represented by Dallas Typographical Union Local 173?

If so, did the union go on strike in October 1962?

I haven't looked at it yet, of course. (lol)

http://www.lib.utexas.edu/taro/utarl/00160/arl-00160.html

-- Tommy

PS See #23 ("Strikers, 1964, undated") in:

Series III. Photographs 1960's, undated

5.0 linear feet (1 manuscript box)

Maybe it was written in 1964 but was about a strike in 1963?

Edited October 28, 2016 by Thomas Graves

[Chris Newton]

Were the Jaggers-Chiles Stovall workers represented by Dallas Typographical Union Local 173?

Yes.

Box

Folder 1 Dow Jones and Co. 1979, 1984 2 Hicks Printing Company 1953, 1957, 1960, 1963, 1966, 1969 3 Jaggers-Chiles-Stovall 1953, 1960, 1963, 1966, 1969, 1972-1973 4 Jewell Printing Company 1953, 1957, 1960

http://www.lib.utexas.edu/taro/utarl/00133/arl-00133.html

[Mark Knight]

So...was Oswald, the so-called Marxist, a member of the union?

If so, where's his membership card?

If not...why would a man who allegedly thought of himself as a downtrodden worker, NOT join the union?

Where's the evidence, either way?

[Chris Newton]

So...was Oswald, the so-called Marxist, a member of the union?

Maybe or maybe not?

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=141331&relPageId=3&search=%22typographical_union%22

edit added: Not trying to be flippant above but there were some apparent non-union people permitted to work at JCS by management but with considerable negative reaction from the some parties. I would guess he had to be union to work there and not end up with some kind of "on-the-job" injury.

Edited October 28, 2016 by Chris Newton

[Steve Thomas]

It strikes me a military ID might be useful to impress someone you are trying to convince of your credentials as a military type, as a marine. Oswald did try that sort of thing with exiles in Miami, but in his own name and for that he used his training manual as support.

Bottom line though is that a fake military ID is probably not a good thing for use with the actual military but if you are trying to impress somebody with your being a marine it might be worthwhile.

I got to thinking about it, and I think you are right.

It's probable that the Hidell card was only the first step in trying to create the identity of a former marine. The "Oswald" man left a Marine Corps manual with his name in it for Carlos Bringuer. Maybe the "Hidell" man was going to do the same kind of thing and never got around to it.

PS: You wrote, "Oswald did try that sort of thing with exiles in Miami, but in his own name and for that he used his training manual as support."

Can you expound on that a little? Did you mean to say New Orleans? or was Oswald supposed to have done something similar in Miami that I'm not familiar with?

PPS: I was reading Bringuer's WC testimony. He said:

And after that, I left the store, because I had to go to the bank to make the deposit, and Oswald was in the store talking to my brother-in-law--that is my partner in the store---Rolando Pelaez.

Mr. LIEBELER. Is that P-e-l-a-e-z?

Mr. BRINGUIER. That is right. Oswald was talking to him for about half an hour,

Next day, on August 6, Oswald came back to the store, but I was not in the store at that moment, and he left with my brother-in-law a Guidebook for Marines for me with the name "L. H. Oswald" in the top of the first page. When I came back to the store, my brother-in-law gave to me the Guidebook for Marines.

So, Oswald didn't actually give the Guidebook to Bringuer, he gave it to Pelaez.

Do you know anything about this Rolando Pelaez?

Steve Thomas

[Larry Hancock]

Sorry Steve, I did mean New Orleans instead of Miami - my error - and I'm afraid I don't now anything about Pelaez.

[Gene Kelly]

Harry Homes was also party to this interview. The mysterious postal inspector. The Hidell alias is also associated with the postal box taken out in Oswald's name. Somehow, Holmes is in the middle of this.

[Gene Kelly]

I am reminded of a post from a few years ago, and the "coincidences" associated with General Walker's story and circumstances. Walker's blatant right-wing connections appear too good to be true; I sense that he was being used as a distraction and was as much a patsy as Oswald was (imho) ... and he knew it, as evidenced by his theatric post-assassination behavior and statements.

More to the point of this thread, Vince Palamara has previously posted that there was a place in Dallas called Hidell Hardware ... near General Walker's house. It was originally located on Travis Street, close to where Walker lived in 1963, just off the interstate. It is described as on a direct route to the Walker residence that Oswald would have used to take his infamous pot-shot at the general.

The Hidell name is another one of those simply amazing coincidences ... and most who study this case are long-since wary of coincidence.

[Paul Brancato]

Yes he is. The whole Hidell thing seems to me like a clue whose meaning we still haven't unearthed

[Paul Brancato]

Apparently LHO used the alias Hidell at least in New Orleans. Didn't Nagell also use this name?

[Chris Newton]

Vince Palamara has previously posted that there was a place in Dallas called Hidell Hardware ... near General Walker's house. It was originally located on Travis Street, close to where Walker lived in 1963, just off the interstate. It is described as on a direct route to the Walker residence that Oswald would have used to take his infamous pot-shot at the general.

FYI... They have a website.

http://hidellhardware.com/

Dick Hidell's obit:

http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/statesman/obituary.aspx?n=richard-robinson-hidell-dick&pid=126540960

Edited October 29, 2016 by Chris Newton