Jump to content
The Education Forum

Is this guy walking west on Elm St. extension wearing a plaid shirt?


Sandy Larsen
 Share

Recommended Posts

The enhancement below was recently posted and it seemed all but confirmed that the guy on the right was Bill Lovelady, because of the plaid shirt and balding head. Now some questions are being raised.

Lovelady-and-shelley-in-couch-okt-2016-B

For example, Robert Prudhomme has noted that a lot of things in the enhancement are now plaid-like. In addition he's been questioning the relative heights of the two men. The taller one is supposedly Bill Shelley and the shorter one Lovelady. But in reality Bill Shelley may be the shorter of the two.

In doing some related research I came across some photos of these guys and began having my own doubts. For example, this photo:

Shelley%2Band%2BLovelady5.jpg

When I look at this photo I lose faith in the above photo showing the plaid. Because this photo shows no sign of plaid on supposed-Lovelady's shirt. And it actually does show signs of a pattern on supposed-Shelley's jacket, which it's not supposed to have.

It seems that one would have to do a great deal of processing to get plaid out of no plaid. Which reminds me of Duncan's Prayer Women (both the one with the buttons and the one with the Mary Tyler Moore/ Frankenstein face).

Another thing that bothers me is that it seems like supposed-Lovelady's shirt should show up darker than what we see in the bottom photo. Like it is the the enhanced top photo above. (The reason the shirt is darker in that photo is because the contrast has been adjusted very high. Everything on the darker end of the spectrum has been turned to pitch black as a result.)

I'd like to invite the person who made the plaid-shirt-showing image to submit the original still from which it was taken.

I'd like to invite anybody to post photos that are more clear than the bottom one I've posted, so we can see if there really is a visible plaid pattern prior to any processing.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Give it a rest? Is that your final answer?

Sorry, folks, this matter is far from decided.

BTW, Thomas, how did you arrive at the conclusion Bill Shelley was 5'6"?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What annoys me the most is that the True Believers always show the one still in which "Shelley" and "Lovelady" appear to be walking together.

If you watch the film, you can see the Lovelady lookalike catches up to and passes the Shelley lookalike, without so much as a glance at him.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Also, if you look at the top still in Bart's post # 2, "Shelley" is obviously a couple of inches taller than "Lovelady".

In the still below the top one (same still BTW), the two men have changed stature and are now almost the same height.

More Photoshopping?

Edited by Robert Prudhomme
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 10/31/2016 at 10:21 AM, Robert Prudhomme said:

Give it a rest? Is that your final answer?

Sorry, folks, this matter is far from decided.

BTW, Thomas, how did you arrive at the conclusion Bill Shelley was 5'6"?

Howdy Bob!

You often accuse me of putting words in your mouth, Bob, so I find it amusing that you are doing that to me here. If you will take the time to read that post again, you will see that I said "about" or "or so" or words to that effect. (Going from memory here.)

That wording, in-and-of-itself, precludes the possibility that what I wrote was "my conclusion."

Why are you always twisting my words like that, Bob?

Sheesh.

-- Tommy :sun

PS I'm finally "out of here" for three or four days. Goin' to the grocery store now to get me some ice and some "grub," and then I'm hittin' Interstate 8 East and going gold prospectin', as I believe I told you I would be doing in the PM I sent you yesterday evening.

C-ya, Cowboy Bob. I'll try to help you some more when I get back...

Edited by Thomas Graves
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Give it a rest, and why are there so many threads created on this matter?

Lovelady-and-Shelly-in-Couch-1.jpg

Billy-Lovelady-and-Bill-Shelley-in-Malco

Lovelady-and-shelley-in-couch-okt-2016-B

shelley-collage-1.jpg

Add on their initial statements...............job done.

Actually, Bart, neither Shelley nor Lovelady mentioned a walk toward the rail yard. Not in their first-day statements.

But thanks for posting the high resolution image.

I've studied the "Lovelady" shirt in that photo and it does appear to have horizontal stripes, alternating dark and light, representing the red and gray stripes on the body of the plaid shirt respectively. The number of stripes is correct and the location of the stripes roughly correct.

I personally don't trust the enhanced photo that supposedly shows the numerous stripes of the plaid pattern. I think it could just be noise. And you can't count them

The "Shelley" jacket does NOT have a pattern, which matches the real jacket.

As for the "Lovelady" bald spot... yeah, I think it can be said to possibly be there. There is definitely a bald area in the sideburn area, but that is probably due to the sun shining directly on that side of the head. You should all look and see what you think.

Next I'd like to know whether or not Shelley is taller than Lovelady.

P.S. I now believe that the "Lovelady" character is indeed wearing a plaid shirt, probably the red, gray, black and white one. But I'm not sure the person wearing the shirt is actually Lovelady.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Billy Lovelady states in the FBI report by Robert M. Barrett from the same day (Nov 22nd) : ”immediately after hearing the shots he and Shelly started running towards the Presidential car, but it sped away west on Elm Street under the triple underpass. He and Shelley then returned to the Texas School Book Depository Building”. During this time he saw no one run out of the building or saw no suspicious individuals.

Lovelady also mentions in document CE 1381 the following: “I recall that following the shooting, I ran toward the spot where President Kennedy’s car had stopped William Shelley and myself stayed in that area for approximately five minutes when we then re-entered the Depository building by the side door located on the west side of the building”.

*****

Shelley states in his very first affidavit on Nov. 22nd “I ran across the street to a corner of the park. I ran into a girl crying and she said the president had been shot. This girls name is Gloria Calvery. Who is an employee of this same building. I went back to the building and went inside and called my wife and told her what happened.” This first statement, like Lovelady’s, contains no reference to Lee Harvey Oswald either. I also value this first statement for the inclusion of him running across after the shots were fired.

FBI Statement of Bill Shelly March 18th 1964 CE 1381: “Immediately following the shooting Billy Lovelady and I left…….”
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Bart

Would you post a link to the FBI report you make reference to?

Billy Lovelady's statement found in CE 1381 was taken on March 19, 1964, and tells roughly the same story as both Lovelady and Shelley told in their testimony to the WC. The big difference is, in their testimony, they claimed they did not leave the steps until 3-4 minutes after the last shot; long after Baker supposedly entered the TSBD and after Gloria Calvery came running up to the TSBD steps with the news of the assassination.

Between all of their DPD statements, FBI statements and WC testimony, just how are we to determine when Shelley and Lovelady were telling the truth, and how much of what they said was modified by the FBI and the WC?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

P.S. I now believe that the "Lovelady" character is indeed wearing a plaid shirt, probably the red, gray, black and white one. But I'm not sure the person wearing the shirt is actually Lovelady.

I've thought for some time now that Shelley's and Lovelady's LATER testimony was that they walked to the rail yard. After which they walked into the west entrance of the TSBD.

That is the reason I've been interested in the two guys walking west on Elm St. extension. Now I know that they really said they walked to where the President's car had been. Getting to that location via the path taken by the two guys walking on the extension makes little sense. So now I see little reason to believe those two guys to be Shelley and Lovelady. Maybe they are, but the evidence has dropped considerablyl IMO. (I do realize that others may not have been under the same wrong impression I was, and still believe the two guys to be Shelley and Lovelady. Which is fine.)

Because of this, I know longer maintain my earlier belief (as I quoted myself saying, above), that "the 'Lovelady' character is indeed wearing a plaid shirt, probably the red, gray, black and white one." Rather, I believe the guy is wearing a shirt with broad horizontal stripes which may or may not be of a plaid design. And he may or may not be Lovelady.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Please sign in to comment

You will be able to leave a comment after signing in



Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...