Trump?

[James DiEugenio]

BTW, I have to add, Kennedy was very sensitive about these conflicts of interest issues.  In both others and his own administration.

The one time he slipped up on it was not really his fault, the TFX case.  Most people think that was due to LBJ's meddling.

 

[Kirk Gallaway]

Oh, I don't know Pam. I see a bit of sentiment here that Hillary is trigger happy. My guess is that she'd be just like Bill, and her bark would be worse than her bite. I think we could approach Putin more delicately. Trump might have been better for our relations with Putin, (unless he plays Trump and sucks him into taking measures we'll all regret, even the debates showed, he could get sucked into saying self defeating things) but even if that didn't happen, it's a big world out there, even without Russia.

Pam, I noticed white women voted decisively for Trump. Do you think it's because Hillary is perceived as a crook as you said. Or on the other hand, Do you think any part of it is internalized sexism and their participation in oppressing each other as my daughter said. Heh

[Robert Prudhomme]

21 hours ago, Douglas Caddy said:

President Obama will likely pardon Hillary and her close aides that were involved in the email controversy, probably around Thanksgiving or Christmas when the public is absorbed in the holidays and not paying too much attention. The pardon for Hillary will cover both the email and Clinton Foundation controversies.

It looks increasingly likely that Gov. Christi will be indicted on Bridgegate before Trump becomes president. Christi's two close aides who were recently convicted in that scandal will eagerly testify against him at the trial. However, Trump may pardon Christi before the trial begins but the public perception that he gets off free while his close aides take the fall for him will engender intense criticism of both Christi and Trump.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/11/10/barack-obama-will-not-rule-out-pardon-for-hillary-clinton-amid-d/

 

 

 

 

Excuse me, Doug but, wouldn't Hillary actually have to be convicted of an offence before Obama was to pardon her? Perhaps I simply do not understand the American judicial system. In Canada, pardons are granted only to those persons convicted of an offence.

[James DiEugenio]

BTW Pam,  the Israel angle is something I will be discussing in Dallas at Lancer.  And you might want to read my review of the Grossman book at Consortium News entitled, "How Israel Stole the Bomb."  JFK was the last president who really resisted Israel getting the bomb.

As per the Mideast and Russia, its pretty clear that HRC had thrown in her lot with the neocons, CFR types on Putin and the Middle East.  Her policy in the latter was so different from Kennedy's.  I mean the whole Libya thing was simply a debacle, the likes of which Kissinger and Nixon would have done.  She had a very bad influence on Obama.  In fact, i cannot understand why he gave her that job.  She simply was not really qualified for it.  But it turned out great for the Clinton Foundation.

 

PS To Bob P, see Ford and Nixon.

Edited November 12, 2016 by James DiEugenio

[Cliff Varnell]

3 take-aways from the 2016 Prez Election in order of importance:

1)

On June 16, 2015, Donald Trump announced for President and cable news -- CNN, MSNBC, and Fox -- turned into 24/7 Reality TV.

It was the Donald J. Trump Show starring Donald J. Trump featuring the lovely Ivanka.

The networks made a fortune.  They wanted this pilot show to get a 4 year run so they allowed Trump and his surrogates to constantly prevaricate unchallenged, and they obsessed on ginned up Clinton "scandals"  and harped on the horrible optics of e-mails and the Clinton Foundation.

Of course, Trump provided so many horrible optics it became a blur, a new outrage every day. 

It all came down to the last two weeks of the campaign.  If it were Trump's optics in the public eye, he loses.  If it's Clinton's optics in the public eye, she loses.

2) 

James Comey violated the Hatch Act which prevents civil servants from pernicious political activity.

Comey could have checked out every one of those e-mails in one day tops but instead he put Hillary back in the spotlight and it killed her campaign.

Accuse Comey of treason?  I wouldn't go that far except for all the other instances of Republican treason over the last 48 years.

3) 

The Republican Party declared war on the Democratic Party in 1994.  Only the Democrats didn't see it and most are in denial today.

When the GOP took control of Congress after the 1994 mid-terms they launched investigation after investigation into the Clintons.  Their goal was to generate Clinton Fatigue with non-stop accusations, charges, innuendo, smear.  Whitewater, Travelgate, Filegate, Christmascardgate, Monicagate.

It worked.  Monicagate cost Al Gore the 2000 election because a lot of old folks in Florida were mad at the Democrats over Bill's behavior.

Since 1994 Republicans have ceaselessly tried to undermine the legitimacy of Democratic Presidents.

They claimed that Obama wasn't born in the country; they blocked his agenda at every turn even when he pushed for their policies; they attempted to shut down the government every two years.

And then 8 Benghazi hearings going after Obama and Clinton over non-existent issues  The last Benghazi Committee turned up the e-mails -- and the GOP had it's "gotcha" narrative set.  Along with a compliant corporate news media, the Republicans ratcheted up the personal attacks to the point where, in the words of Bernie Sanders, "people are sick of hearing about your damn e-mails."

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/oct/13/bernie-sanders-hillary-clinton-damn-email-server

In 2016 the American people were down to the marrow of our bones sick of two things: gridlock in Washington and hearing about Clinton's damn e-mails.

They voted for Trump to get relief from both.

It took James Comey to put this voter suppression strategy over the top.

Edited November 12, 2016 by Cliff Varnell

[Robert Prudhomme]

I find it so odd that people get upset wen asked to list Hillary's actual indictable offences, or verifiable evidence that would convict her on those offences. I get the same reaction when I ask people to compare her email controversy to GW Bush and the 22 million missing emails from his private server, which I see has been completely ignored since I posted it on this thread. 

Is there really a double standard in the USA; one bar for Republicans, and a much higher bar for Democrats?

[Cliff Varnell]

6 minutes ago, Robert Prudhomme said:

Excuse me, Doug but, wouldn't Hillary actually have to be convicted of an offence before Obama was to pardon her? Perhaps I simply do not understand the American judicial system. In Canada, pardons are granted only to those persons convicted of an offence.

 

In America folks are tried and convicted in the media.

Well, if you're a Democrat, anyway.

[Robert Prudhomme]

21 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

BTW Pam,  the Israel angle is something I will be discussing in Dallas at Lancer.  And you might want to read my review of the Grossman book at Consortium News entitled, "How Israel Stole the Bomb."  JFK was the last president who really resisted Israel getting the bomb.

As per the Mideast and Russia, its pretty clear that HRC had thrown in her lot with the neocons, CFR types on Putin and the Middle East.  Her policy in the latter was so different from Kennedy's.  I mean the whole Libya thing was simply a debacle, the likes of which Kissinger and Nixon would have done.  She had a very bad influence on Obama.  In fact, i cannot understand why he gave her that job.  She simply was not really qualified for it.  But it turned out great for the Clinton Foundation.

 

PS To Bob P, see Ford and Nixon.

Yes, James, Ford and Nixon. Didn't they have some actual evidence against Nixon in that particular case? They certainly had enough to send several of Nixon's staff to jail.

Obama granting a pardon, and Clinton accepting tat pardon, would only serve to confirm, in the eyes of the unwashed Trump masses, that Hillary actually was guilty of the vast array of conspiracy theories set against her.

As I requested before, show me the list of indictable offences she could conceivably be convicted of, and supporting evidence.

[James DiEugenio]

Its ridiculous to blame the election on Comey.  

HRC lost the Rust Belt.  Wisconsin had not gone for GOP president in something like 34 years. She lost Pennsylvania and Ohio.  She could not take one state in the south, except Virginia, Kaine's state.

She lost because Trump had a thematic campaign, he pictured himself as a change candidate.  HRC could not do that in any convincing way.  Since she is properly perceived as part of the Washington establishment.  I mean she voted for the Iraq War, wants to expand it into Syria, did the Libya debacle.  She gives speeches for Goldman Sachs and was for NAFTA and TPP.  (Before she was against them.)

With all the heck Trump was catching over the Access Hollywood video, he still won the female white vote.  And incredibly, Trump got 26 per cent of the Latino vote.  Think that was about emails?  In the focus group interviews, it was about jobs and being candid about America.

Also, Trump was absolutely pilloried by the media from the Democratic convention to the end.  I actually think this helped him.  Because again it showed him as a change agent, and the outsider.

FInally, the weakness of the Democratic party is exhibited by the fact that with all the advantages they had, they still could not flip the senate, and made very little headway in the House.  Both Pelosi and Schumer should resign their hierarchy positions over that.  The Democratic party is a dinosaur in its leadership.  And in hindsight, both Biden and Warren should have run to head off this utter failure.

 

PS Bob, there was a special prosecutor in the Watergate case.  For three years.  There is a big difference between an FBI inquiry and a special prosecutor.

 

 

Edited November 12, 2016 by James DiEugenio

[Douglas Caddy]

31 minutes ago, Robert Prudhomme said:

Excuse me, Doug but, wouldn't Hillary actually have to be convicted of an offence before Obama was to pardon her? Perhaps I simply do not understand the American judicial system. In Canada, pardons are granted only to those persons convicted of an offence.

There have been recent news articles pro and con on this issue. 

http://heavy.com/news/2016/11/hillary-clinton-pardon-barack-obama-pardoned-clemency-will-the-president-pardon-hillary-trump-video-josh-earnest-white-house-press-secretary-gerald-ford-nixon/

 

 

Edited November 12, 2016 by Douglas Caddy

[James DiEugenio]

10 minutes ago, James DiEugenio said:

delete-copy

 

 

 

Edited November 12, 2016 by James DiEugenio

[Roger DeLaria]

http://www.christianitytoday.com/gleanings/2016/november/trump-elected-president-thanks-to-4-in-5-white-evangelicals.html

I had read that many evangelical white women voted for Trump despite his misogynist/sexist comments regarding women had a lot to do with the women voters' evangelical background being very patriarchal.

[Robert Prudhomme]

On 11/11/2016 at 10:58 PM, Ron Ecker said:

 

 

 

[Cliff Varnell]

37 minutes ago, James DiEugenio said:

Its ridiculous to blame the election on Comey.  

Since you weren't properly following the election how would you know?

Those of us following it knew that Trump was on the ropes, the media were focused on his tax returns and pussy grabbing.

Then Comey stepped in and all the talk was about Hillary's e-mails.

You have no clue what "vote suppression" entails, do you, Jim?

Quote

HRC lost the Rust Belt.

She won the popular vote by something like 2 million.

Quote

Wisconsin had not gone for GOP president in something like 34 years. She lost Pennsylvania and Ohio.  She could not take one state in the south, except Virginia, Kaine's state.

She lost because Trump had a thematic campaign, he pictured himself as a change candidate. 

HRC could not do that in any convincing way.  Since she is properly perceived as part of the Washington establishment.  I mean she voted for the Iraq War, wants to expand it into Syria, did the Libya debacle. 

Trump also supported the Iraq and Libya actions.  Cable news let him get away with prevaricating about that non-stop.

None of his tax policies represent populist change -- it's the same old GOP refusal to tax the rich.

Quote

She gives speeches for Goldman Sachs and was for NAFTA and TPP.  (Before she was against them.)

We've seen her speeches to Goldman.

What about them?

Quote

With all the heck Trump was catching over the Access Hollywood video, he still won the female white vote.  And incredibly, Trump got 26 per cent of the Latino vote.  Think that was about emails?

Yes, Jim, it's called voter suppression.  Make the campaign so ugly people won't want to vote.

Instead of the conversation about tax returns and pussy grabbing Comey refocused the public's attention on e-mails.

Of course, you had to have been paying attention to the campaign to observe this, and obviously Jim DiEugenio was not.

Quote

 In the focus group interviews, it was about jobs and being candid about America.

And reservations about Hillary "being candid" came out of the ether -- or were these reservations toward Clinton ginned up and exploited by Comey and the Republicans?

That was the Benghazi strategy -- undermine Hillary's reputation for honesty.

Quote

Also, Trump was absolutely pilloried by the media from the Democratic convention to the end.  I actually think this helped him.  Because again it showed him as a change agent, and the outsider.

Only to the gullible.

People voted for him at the last minute because they were sick and tired of twp things -- Washington gridlock and Hillary's damn e-mails.

It was a mass extortion.

"Nice little democracy ya got there.  Too bad if we have to investigate your President all the time..."

 

 

 

Edited November 12, 2016 by Cliff Varnell

[Cliff Varnell]

21 minutes ago, Douglas Caddy said:

There have been recent news articles pro and con on this issue. 

 

Hilarious!

Of course there have been news articles -- it was all part of the political assassination of Hillary Clinton.

Edited November 12, 2016 by Cliff Varnell