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Trump/Putin Kennedy/Krushchev


Steve Thomas
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What would be the difference between back channel communications between Trump and Putin and between Kennedy and Krushchev?

 

I suppose the intent would be one.

 

It strikes me that the right wing would have been up in arms if they knew about Kennedy talking to Krushchev - they already had Wanted for Treason posters out and about.

But today, it doesn't seem to bother the right all that much.

 

How times have changed.

 

Steve Thomas

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Yes, but trying to understand is better than not. The Russians are understandably pissed off about a lot of things. Maybe business is a way to find common ground. 

 

Edited by Paul Brancato
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4 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

It seems to me that if Trump or his surrogates were talking about business deals, or talking about how to influence the election or policy after, then that is  quite different than what JFK and Nikita were doing.

James,

 

That is what I was talking about. It seems like the Trump/Putin talks, or mutual admiration society, or whatever you want to call it, is more like hammering out business deals, or "spheres of influence" as we used to call it; while the Kennedy/Krushchev talks were more about how to prevent nuclear war.

 

I'm thinking that the right wing of today sees communism as dead, and views Putin as just another right wing business mogul - who they can recognize and relate to.

In the 1960's, conflicts were more ideology driven, now it seems to be more business driven - or maybe I'm just being naive, and it was always business driven.

In the trifecta of U.S./Russia/Chinese struggle, the alliances are constantly shifting. I think we are heading toward a U.S./Russia alliance vs. China world map. Our right wing of today seems perfectly okay with Russia annexing the Crimea and the Balkans, while we scrap NATO alliances and free-trade agreements.

(This isn't really relevant I suppose, but I was reading about the General's Putsch in Algeria in April of 1961, and, if you read their memoirs,  I was struck by the Generals' belief that the real danger of communism sweeping through North Africa and the Middle East wasn't Russian communism, but Chinese). We think the fall of The French at Dien Bien Phu was the height of French anti-communist effort, but France had more armed forces fighting in Algeria (more than 400,000) than in Vietnam. Fully half France's  armed forces were committed in Algeria.

(And again, I suppose I'm rambling, but - between the Bay of Pigs, the Generals' Putsch in Algeria, which spread to mainland France, and the Secret War in Laos, which one commentator called the "most bombed country in the world", April, 1961 was a pretty hairy time.

See "The Secret War in Laos" here:

https://video.search.yahoo.com/yhs/search?fr=yhs-avg-fh_lsonsw&hsimp=yhs-fh_lsonsw&hspart=avg&p=Laos+1961#id=6&vid=e0963c02c3f871fb18d3e5943eba17ef&action=click

According to this web site, the War in Laos was entirely driven and financed by the CIA. Totally similar to what was going on in Cuba.

 

According to the Office of the Historian, Bureau of Public Affairs

United States Department of State

"The first foreign policy crisis faced by President-elect John F. Kennedy was not centered in Berlin, nor in Cuba, nor in the islands off the Chinese mainland, nor in Vietnam, nor in any of the better-known hot spots of the Cold War, but in landlocked, poverty stricken Laos."

 

Steve Thomas

 

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Leaving political particulars aside, I believe that Putin recognizes in Trump a person of oligarchical temperament and lifestyle, such as put Putin in power in Russia.  But over there, these types remain behind the scene.  They don't edge into the limelight with long-running TV shows that (with other reality TV) foster a culture of divisiveness and social competition with false standards of merit or demerit.

What does it say about the west when the oligarch becomes the frontman, with all of us heedless of his past crimes and sins?  Did Oswald Spengler cover this?

Edited by David Andrews
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7 hours ago, Steve Thomas said:

See "The Secret War in Laos" here:

https://video.search.yahoo.com/yhs/search?fr=yhs-avg-fh_lsonsw&hsimp=yhs-fh_lsonsw&hspart=avg&p=Laos+1961#id=6&vid=e0963c02c3f871fb18d3e5943eba17ef&action=click

According to this web site, the War in Laos was entirely driven and financed by the CIA. Totally similar to what was going on in Cuba.

 

According to the Office of the Historian, Bureau of Public Affairs

United States Department of State

"The first foreign policy crisis faced by President-elect John F. Kennedy was not centered in Berlin, nor in Cuba, nor in the islands off the Chinese mainland, nor in Vietnam, nor in any of the better-known hot spots of the Cold War, but in landlocked, poverty stricken Laos."

 

Steve Thomas

 

Steve,

Thank you so much for posting this!  Can't thank you enough!

JFK's policy is Laos is habitually overlooked by "historians" like James DiEugenio.

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12 hours ago, Paul Brancato said:

Yes, but trying to understand is better than not. The Russians are understandably pissed off about a lot of things. Maybe business is a way to find common ground. 

 

Ever heard of the KGB, the FSB, 1999 Russian Apartment Bombings, the Second Chechen War, Transnistria, Crimea (and the Little Green Men), Donbas (and the Russian BUK that shot down MH17), Syria, Cozy Bear, Fancy Bear, Guccifer 2.0, the so-called Ukrainian Separatist "Motorola," Wikileaks, etc.?

Ever watched the PBS video "Putin's Way"?  (It's free. All ya gotta do is [gasp] Google it.)

--  Tommy :sun

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10 minutes ago, James DiEugenio said:

CV: JFK's policy is Laos is habitually overlooked by "historians" like James DiEugenio.

 

Which is why I wrote about it at Consortium News and in my book, Destiny Betrayed.

More empty snark from the smart aleck.

But you left it out of your Kennedy foreign policy presentation 3 years ago.

You may have brushed over it before, but it's a subject you otherwise habitually ignore.

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Jim, I have a trivia question for you.

Let's do this "Jeopardy"-style -- Your answer in the form of a question.

"This American diplomat was assigned by Secretary of State Dean Rusk to handle US policy in Laos, April 1961."

Who is______?

You might have to go down to the library and check the New York Times microfiche for that period of time, because I doubt if you know the answer off the top of your head.

Edited by Cliff Varnell
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3 hours ago, Thomas Graves said:

Ever heard of the KGB, the FSB, 1999 Russian Apartment Bombings, the Second Chechen War, Transnistria, Crimea (and the Little Green Men), Donbas (and the Russian BUK that shot down MH17), Syria, Cozy Bear, Fancy Bear, Guccifer 2.0, the so-called Ukrainian Separatist "Motorola," Wikileaks, etc.?

Ever watched the PBS video "Putin's Way"?  (It's free. All ya gotta do is [gasp] Google it.)

--  Tommy :sun

Are you saying Putin is a bad guy? 

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4 minutes ago, Douglas Caddy said:

Putin has decades of being a skilled Soviet and then Russian intelligence officer. He views Trump as a useful idiot, one who can be disarmed by mere flattery. Our national security would be at risk if Trump and Putin were to meet alone, without their advisers.

 

Right on, Douglas!

--  Tommy  :sun

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