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Bullet scar on inside of driver's door in Dallas T-H photo


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2 hours ago, Chris Newton said:

Robin's site has a better resolution picture of the "rivet"; same picture as I linked above. I think it's a rivet and, now at higher resolution,  I don't think it's symmetrical with the passenger door rivet. Maybe because of different controls or armor inserts it had to be placed where it was.

 

http://www.jfkassassinationgallery.com/displayimage.php?pid=6486

 

Chris,

What you say here makes the most sense to me. I think James Gordon is right, that they are indented screws. The custom armor job wasn't performed with symmetry in mind, not realizing that screws would have to be added to pull the panels down tight against the door frames.

Edited by Sandy Larsen
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It's hard to imagine how a bullet could hit the driver's door at that point without hitting Greer. Unless he was crouched forward at the time to avoid getting shot, with the bullet passing behind him, while he was busy slowing down the car.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Sandy Larsen said:

Chris,

What you say here makes the most sense to me. I think James Gordon is right, that they are indented screws. The custom armor job wasn't performed with symmetry in mind, not realizing that screws would have to be added to pull the panels down tight against the door frames.

Yuppers. There are other pictures of the center post and looking at them I believe the "rivet" would be hidden with the door closed anyway (and therefore impossible to be a projectile unless it penetrated the door itself from the outside).

Hey Ron - I think the implication is that Greer fired the round himself. I've heard CT'ers make claims about Greer's supposed involvement but with all do respect, I imagine it would be very hard to recruit conspirators and then ask them to sit in the target car.

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4 minutes ago, Chris Newton said:

I imagine it would be very hard to recruit conspirators and then ask them to sit in the target car.

One would think so. But I've often wondered why Connally looked so distracted and apprehensive in a couple of photos taken that day (one that I recall was taken at Love Field). And of course he wound up saying, "My God, they're going to kill us all."

 

 

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The location of the "rivet" on the passenger door is unequivocally in a different place than the "rivet" on the driver's door - an anomaly that isn't easily explained in the construction of a high quality automobile like the JFK limousine.  It doesn't matter what perspective the camera takes in; the thing is located in one position relative to the edge of the door and the panel nearest to it (which is symmetrical on both doors), and that position is not symmetrical on both doors.  I really, really wish I could upload the picture that I created which compares the two door images.  It is clear that the "rivets" are in different places on the doors.  The note from Chris that "the non symmetry of the rivets is a bit strange" is an understatement to be sure.  The possibility that a Lincoln Continental would have an exposed "indented screw" as part of the upholstery and that the driver's and passenger's doors would be so obviously asymmetrical as to this feature is inconceivable to me.  Glad to see that others are questioning the meaning of this discovery and that awareness of its implications is growing.

Steve

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This link didn't work for me for reasons unknown; the photo of the passenger door that I downloaded was found in the assassination gallery.

http://www.jfkassassinationgallery.com/displayimage.php?pid=6486

 

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Please download this .PDF which compares the picture that has become unavailable at the assassination gallery (of the open passenger's side door) with the picture published in the Dallas Times-Herald on 11/22/63 of the open driver's side door.  This is the only way to see that the images depict a feature on both doors that is asymmetrical and is definitely not an "embedded screw" in the driver's side door (since screw heads are circular, not elliptical).  The feature in the passenger's door may be a screw head; the feature in the driver's door definitely does not meet the criteria for an "embedded screw."  Again, if somebody can help me get permission to post pictures on this forum, the discussion would be much more easily supported.

https://app.box.com/s/u72vanem50f3pf79w00p3qz75eqhm7ft

Steve

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Steven, you said "The possibility that a Lincoln Continental would have an exposed "indented screw" as part of the upholstery and that the driver's and passenger's doors would be so obviously asymmetrical as to this feature is inconceivable to me."
   What seems inconceivable is installing a rivet on the passenger side but not on the drivers side. If your mark is a bullet hole where is the rivet on for the driver side?
 

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I owned a 1973 VW Beetle for many years, fully restored.  This is 12 years after this Lincoln was built.  Granted this limo was top of the line for back then, while the VW was a cheap made in the millions people car.

But car manufacturing was very different in 1973 and even more so in 1961.  That VW had some interesting ways of being put together.  Today cars are precision engineered, designed on computers and where everything is close to symmetrical as you can get, then built by robots.

Not so back then.  So maybe one of the indented screws is slightly higher than the other.  Maybe there was a reason for doing that.  Maybe Eisenhardt in Cincinnati, who bullet proofed it, had a reason for screwing one in slightly different than the other.

Look at the vents - look how far back the vents are, almost underneath where the screws on both doors are.  That tells me that when the doors are closed, those screws most probably don't even show up and are hidden.

So my question is - why in the world is this, yet again, even being drawn out in a debate here?  It's obvious these are indented screws or rivets holding the panels on.  And yet....it continues on like it's some kind of Rosetta Stone in the case.

I mean, wow.  Just...wow. 

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45 minutes ago, Michael Walton said:

...owned a 1973 VW Beetle for many years

My first car was a 1956 Bug Convertible and "restored" would have been generous. It only passed PA inspection because the local inspector liked the car. It had some quirks like instead of a fuel gauge it had a spare 2 gal. tank. Wrap your head around that millennials. :)

 

I found this good history of the car. It wasn't armored until after the assassination. Despite that, the original work required the car to be totally stripped down to the body and frame.

http://jalopnik.com/why-jfks-limousine-stayed-in-service-for-13-years-afte-1469629419

 

 

 

 

 

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Apologies for disrupting things.  The only thing that makes sense to me is that the feature on the passenger door is different from the feature on the driver's door because they are not the same thing.  I think that the feature on the passenger door is a lame attempt to put a comparable feature on that door as a means of creating the debate that has ensued about the appearance of a bullet scar on the inside of the driver's door (which amounts to another "Tague bullet" that further confirms the existence of multiple shooters).  I'll look forward to somebody finding out that the upholstery of the doors on the JFK limo wasn't slapped together with one screw placed in approximately the same position on each door so that one had the distinct appearance of a bullet scar.  Until then, you can debate this discovery without me.

Steve

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30 minutes ago, Malcolm Ward said:

This is from a normal Lincoln Convertible which shows the same screw James highlighted.

 

 http://www.conceptcarz.com/view/photo/1364404,13478/1962-Lincoln-Continental-MK-II_photo.aspx

 

Looks like Michael Walton got it right.

It looks like cars back then might have been built a little bit like houses are built... generally symmetrical but with less emphasis on fastener placement. I had a 1980 AMC Spirit (a Gremlin with a face lift) and was surprised to see some seat-of-the-pants assembly that had gone on. Not that anything was wrong with it... it just didn't seem like something you'd see in a mechanical drawing. At the moment I recall a sheet of plywood acting as the "floor"in the back compartment (under the hatch). Very thick (like 5/8") and heavy.

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