James Hosty and KGB Agent Kostikov

[Pamela Brown]

19 hours ago, Paul Trejo said:

Pamela,

Then, you are affirming -- categorically -- that Comrade Kostin = Vladimir Kostikov?

You're certain about this?

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

I am affirming that LHO referenced a "Comrade Kostin" which is similar to Kostikov.  Do you disagree?

 

[Thomas Graves]

On 12/8/2016 at 2:11 PM, Thomas Graves said:

The following excerpt from Newman's Oswald and the CIA is in the ballpark, but it's in regards to a phone call to the Soviet Embassy / Consulate on Friday, September 27, and may not have been Oswald or his impostor, but just some Spanish-speaking guy who just happened (?) to want some visas to Odessa, U.S.S.R.

https://books.google.com/books?id=17AtAgAAQBAJ&pg=RA1-PR56&lpg=RA1-PR56&dq=oswald+terrible+russian+spanish&source=bl&ots=Y25L0gk_Q_&sig=UPXCfjAE0eiRksVDeYkUm4wPenk&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjAg_bdzOXQAhVIl1QKHaBCAt4Q6AEIHjAB#v=onepage&q=oswald terrible russian spanish&f=false

-- Tommy

PS --  The torn-off part of the bottom of this handwritten note on a 6-page 1976 CIA memo is interesting in that the two words partially torn off look as though they could be "English" (on the left) and "Russian" (on the right).

If this guess is correct, it would suggest that the caller's main language was probably Spanish.https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=50273#relPageId=5&tab=page

Here's the 6-page memo, in full.

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=50273#relPageId=1&tab=page

Bumped by "mistake."  Somehow, my computer made me do it.  Usually it's the Devil, but this time it was my computer.. I swear.

Edited December 12, 2016 by Thomas Graves

[Thomas Graves]

Has anyone ever analysed the spelling - punctuation - grammar - syntax - vocabulary of Oswald's infamous "embassy letter" of November 9, 1963, to determine whether or not LHO could have written it?  Or did Ruth Paine "proofread" it for him?  (lol)

 

 

Also, has anyone ever determined whether or not there was a "Kostin" working in the Russian Embassy / Consulate in Mexico City during the period of time that Oswald was allegedly there?

--  Tommy

Edited December 11, 2016 by Thomas Graves

[Chris Newton]

Hey Tommy,

I've been looking at this letter and it's provenance all week. There are some pretty curious statements made by some of our favorite people concerning the letter.

During the New Orleans Grand Jury testimony of Mrs Paine, she stated that she copied the letter found on her typewriter and it was this copy that she gave to the FBI when they came out to ask about Oswald. She was asked where Oswald was living and replied that he had taken a room in an unknown boarding house, problem was she had the phone number and didn't give them that and when asked why - it didn't occur to her to do so.

Marina is quoted as stating that Lee re-typed the letter about ten times. Now if he re-typed it, what happened to all the unused copies and why would Ruth P. need to make another copy?

When SA Hosty was asked in a confidential interview with the HSCA he relates that he went out to the Paine's twice and but only spoke to Ruth once - the first time. He never makes any mention of the letter she was supposed to have given him.

This memo states that on 11-1-63 that Mrs Paine informed the FBI that Lee was working at the SBD. It doesn't mention her copy of the letter. It does reveal a little more about the mail opening activities in D.C that apparently revealed the letter on 11-18-63.

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=5581#relPageId=9&tab=page

Edited December 11, 2016 by Chris Newton
grammar nazis

[James DiEugenio]

JIm Douglass has some very cogent remarks about the letter as cones Carol Hewitt.

Ruth thought up about three different ways that she discovered the letter.  And if I recall correctly, they actually returned the original to her.

NO Kostin worked in the embassy, but Carol found out that there was a Kostin in the kGB.

[Chris Newton]

1 hour ago, James DiEugenio said:

JIm Douglass has some very cogent remarks about the letter as cones Carol Hewitt.

Thanks Jim, I know I've read about this letter several times but I've not travelled this part of the rabbit hole yet so taking the plunge. I lent my copy of Jim's Unspeakable to a relative, (and can probably kiss it goodbye) but maybe I can scrounge online.

I want to note that in my earlier post I used the words "re-typed" and that was an assumption on my part. In RP's WC testimony she clarifies that she had found a longhand written "draft" on her desk and this is what she copied, in longhand so my assumption was incorrect.

Things I found in the WC testimony that make me go hmmmm:

She states she knew it was Lee's handwriting....

She copied it in longhand... in English...

Thought it was the weekend of November 8,9,10...

Wasn't asked if she gave it to the FBI... subject changed...

Michael P. thought it was a "personal letter" and it started with "Dear Lisa" (stated twice)

 

Note: the FBI visited on the 1st and 5th of November. 1 agent the first visit, 2 Agents on the second.

Edited December 11, 2016 by Chris Newton
ssdd

[Thomas Graves]

On 12/7/2016 at 8:52 AM, Pat Speer said:

 

...  [In his November 9 letter to the Soviet Embassy in Washington, D.C.,] Oswald mentioned a "Comrade Kostin". The FBI had this letter on the 18th, but, apparently, failed to figure out that Kostin was most logically Kostikov, who would in fact later acknowledge he met with Oswald.

In any event, the CIA called the FBI on the morning of the 23rd and told them they'd concluded Kostin was Kostikov, and that Kostikov had a relationship with Dept. 13, the Dept in charge of sabotage and assassinations. ...

 

Pat, et al.,

Due to the ominous "let's finish our business" tone of Oswald's November 9 "Kostin" letter to the Soviet Embassy in Washington, D.C., and the fact that Oswald had not only "defected" to the USSR, but also supposedly told the Ruskies some U2 secrets and, of course, married the niece of a high-ranking MVD officer, I find it hard to believe that the FBI wasn't all over this November 9 letter "like flies on you-know-what," and that they did not, therefore, determine right away whether or not anyone by the name of "Kostin" or "Kostine" was working in the Mexico City Soviet Embassy / Consulate while Oswald was in MC.

It's an established fact now (I think) that Valiery Kostikov was working in that Embassy, so it buggers the mind to think that the FBI couldn't put two-plus-two together on this and realize that Oswald's November 9 "Kostin / Kostine" was Kostikov.

Questions:  When did the CIA: 1 ) claim to have determined, and 2 ) actually determine that Valiery Kostikov was: A) working at the MC Soviet Embassy, B) KGB, and C) an officer in "Department 13"?  

Before or after the assassination?

--  Tommy

Edited December 11, 2016 by Thomas Graves

[Chris Newton]

1 hour ago, Thomas Graves said:

Questions:  When did the CIA: 1 ) claim to have determined, and 2 ) actually determine that Valiery Kostikov was: A) working at the MC Soviet Embassy, B) KGB, and C) an officer in "Department 13"?

Tommy,  the FBI shared this information to CIA before the "Oswald" trip to Mexico because Kostikov sent the FBI's double-agent Schulz (TUMBLEWEED) to a known KGB Dept. 13 contact in New York City. I think I posted that memo in the last couple of days.

 

http://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=32248#relPageId=2&tab=page

Edited December 11, 2016 by Chris Newton
citation

[Thomas Graves]

6 hours ago, Chris Newton said:

Hey Tommy,

I've been looking at this letter and it's provenance all week. There are some pretty curious statements made by some of our favorite people concerning the letter.

During the New Orleans Grand Jury testimony of Mrs Paine, she stated that she copied the letter found on her typewriter and it was this copy that she gave to the FBI when they came out to ask about Oswald. She was asked where Oswald was living and replied that he had taken a room in an unknown boarding house, problem was she had the phone number and didn't give them that and when asked why - it didn't occur to her to do so.

Marina is quoted as stating that Lee re-typed the letter about ten times. Now if he re-typed it, what happened to all the unused copies and why would Ruth P. need to make another copy?

When SA Hosty was asked in a confidential interview with the HSCA he relates that he went out to the Paine's twice and but only spoke to Ruth once - the first time. He never makes any mention of the letter she was supposed to have given him.

This memo states that on 11-1-63 that Mrs Paine informed the FBI that Lee was working at the SBD. It doesn't mention her copy of the letter. It does reveal a little more about the mail opening activities in D.C that apparently revealed the letter on 11-18-63.

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=5581#relPageId=9&tab=page

Thanks Chris,

Do you know if Ruth's handwritten "copy" is viewable online?

--  Tommy

 

[Paul Trejo]

14 hours ago, Pamela Brown said:

But wait, Paul!  Isn't this memo was written a month after the LHO letter that you claim was not written 'early' enough to take into consideration?

Pamela,

The dating of this FBI memo, which is about a conversation with the CIA, is one of its most interesting features.  I'm not sure what you're referring to in your question of the dating, Pamela, but the dating of this memo bears many problems.  Chris Newton also noted problems with the dates.

Let's look at it slowly.  James Hosty (page 48) claims that it was late October when he first learned about a CIA cable dated October 18, 1963, which spoke of LHO meeting Kostikov in Mexico City, and that Hosty requested it, and so there is also an FBI Airtel addressed to Hosty which attaches that memo.  This is all on page 48 of Hosty's book Assignment Oswald.

I have claimed that we lack evidence for this memo -- where is the CIA memo -- where is the FBI Airtel of this memo?  

Chris Newton has also shared his concerns about the dates in this current FBI memo from FBI agent DJ Brennan, only one day after the JFK assassination.  Chris thinks that the date therein ascribed to the CIA memo, 10/18/1963, must be a mistake.  Perhaps.  However, it is exactly the same date that James Hosty ascribed to it on page 48.

The trouble is, nobody can find that memo, can they?.

Now, Pamela, your question is unclear to me.  I've tried to guess at your meaning, but I don't see it yet.  

What is interesting today is this:  I say that there was never a 10/18/1963 memo that James Hosty claims solidly links LHO to Kostikov.  I've never seen it.  Chris has never seen it.  You have never produced it.

However, here is CIA agent Pete Bagley telling FBI agent DJ Brennan on 11/23/1963 that the memo exists -- and giving exactly the same date that James Hosty gives: 10/18/1963.

Now -- some would conclude that James Hosty must be telling the truth, because DJ Brennan backs him up here, and so that alleged 10/18/1963 CIA cable must show up finally.  If it does, then my theory here is toast.

However, it has not yet shown up, and my theory still has energy.  What this current FBI memo by Brennan shows, I will argue, is that James Hosty is the actual source of the information to Pete Bagley.  This FBI memo cites a "sensitive informant" for all this data, about LHO's memo of 11/9/1963.  Ruth Paine said that she handed her hand-written copy of that LHO memo over to James Hosty personally, on the day of the JFK assassination, IIRC.

James Hosty is now the most likely person to be the "sensitive informant" for both Pete Bagley and DJ Brennan.  That's my take on it.  

If so, then the fabrication of a 10/18/1963 CIA cable that links LHO to Kostikov was not merely a fiction that James Hosty wrote in 1996 in his book, Assignment Oswald, but is also a fabrication that James Hosty dropped on the CIA and the FBI on the very day of the JFK assassination!

That's why I say this FBI memo is closer to a smoking gun than anything I've seen before.

Regards,
--Paul Trejo 

Edited December 11, 2016 by Paul Trejo

[Paul Trejo]

14 hours ago, Pamela Brown said:

I am affirming that LHO referenced a "Comrade Kostin" which is similar to Kostikov.  Do you disagree?

Pamela,

I disagree.  Bill Simpich (State Secret, 2014) showed that the telephone voice claiming to be LHO in Mexico City, on 10/1/1963, calling the Soviet Embassy from the Cuban consulate telephone, and asking about Kostikov -- WAS NOT OSWALD.

The Lopez Report shows that LHO made a complete fool of himself at the USSR Embassy, begging and pleading for help in getting the Cubans to give him an instant visa -- and LHO actually took a loaded pistol to the USSR Embassy, and cried real tears.  (They took the gun away, removed the bullets, and gave him back his gun and told him to get out.)

The LHO-Kostikov fabrication porrays LHO as a super-spy going into the USSR Embassy to make a secret meeting.  It's ludicrous.   LHO made a fool of himself.  That's what the evidence shows.   LHO didn't meet anybody by appointment, or anybody that he knew, or anybody that he remembered.  It was a fiasco.

Kostin is a Russian name all unto itself.  It is not uncommon.  LHO could have learned that name in Russia when he lived there, or from books, or there might have been a clerk in the Washington DC Ebassy named Kostin.  It's not a match.

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

Edited December 11, 2016 by Paul Trejo

[Paul Trejo]

10 hours ago, Chris Newton said:

Hey Tommy,

I've been looking at this letter and it's provenance all week. There are some pretty curious statements made by some of our favorite people concerning the letter.

During the New Orleans Grand Jury testimony of Mrs Paine, she stated that she copied the letter found on her typewriter and it was this copy that she gave to the FBI when they came out to ask about Oswald. She was asked where Oswald was living and replied that he had taken a room in an unknown boarding house, problem was she had the phone number and didn't give them that and when asked why - it didn't occur to her to do so.

Marina is quoted as stating that Lee re-typed the letter about ten times. Now if he re-typed it, what happened to all the unused copies and why would Ruth P. need to make another copy?

When SA Hosty was asked in a confidential interview with the HSCA he relates that he went out to the Paine's twice and but only spoke to Ruth once - the first time. He never makes any mention of the letter she was supposed to have given him.

This memo states that on 11-1-63 that Mrs Paine informed the FBI that Lee was working at the SBD. It doesn't mention her copy of the letter. It does reveal a little more about the mail opening activities in D.C that apparently revealed the letter on 11-18-63.

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=5581#relPageId=9&tab=page

Chris,

I have made a special study of Ruth Paine, so I just want to clear up a few points.

(1)  The reason that Ruth Paine didn't tell James Hosty the telephone number of LHO on 11/1/1963, after she told Hosty that LHO was living in an unknown room in Dallas, was that, as she herself said, she really and truly believed that the FBI could find any phone number they wanted in a split second.   If Hosty would have asked for it, she would have given it to him -- he didn't ask -- and furthermore, Marina Oswald was as tense as solid steel.  Marina was terrified that the FBI was going to harass LHO so that LHO would lose his job -- and LHO had already lost 3 jobs in the past year or so.   Marina was terrified -- she just had a newborn baby, and she was hoping to finally get some rest.  If Ruth Paine had given James Hosty every detail she had on LHO, she would probably have had an argument with Marina afterwards, and Ruth Paine's first obligation was for the comfort of Marina Oswald and her new baby.

(2) LHO started out with a hand-written letter to the Soviet Embassy.  He asked Ruth Paine on Saturday, November 9. 1963, if he could use her typewriter, please.  She said yes.  That whole day, Lee sat making typewritten copies for hours and hours.   Ruth Paine said she would glance over his way occasionally -- how long does it take to type one single page? -- and oddly, Lee would see her, then position his body and the typewriter so that nobody could read what he was typing.  Ruth thought that was odd behavior -- she wasn't nosy.-- Lee knew that.  It was almost as if Lee was tempting her to read his note.  After Lee was done writing, he left the original, handwritten copy on the table next to the typewriter.  He left it there for DAYS.   Monday was a Holiday,and Lee was still at Ruth Paine's place; Lee slept in, and early in the morning Ruth glanced at the letter; she saw the words, "notorious FBI".  That made her mad.  So, she read the whole thing.   One lie after another.  "The FBI is not now interested in me???"   Hell, the FBI was just at Ruth Paine's house a few DAYS ago!  Why was Lee lying so much?  She decided that she had to give this letter to James Hosty.  So she copied it by hand.  She truly expected James Hosty to return to her house the following weekend.  He had become a regular.

(3) James Hosty's WC testimony admits that he spoke to Ruth Paine twice.   The first time it was with Marina, on 11/1/1963.  The second time it was with Ruth alone (when Marina snuck out to copy Hosty's license plate number).  These two visits were BOTH before LHO's November 9, 1963 letter was written. Ruth gave James Hosty her copy of LHO's Soviet Embassy Letter only after the JFK assassination.  Handed to him personally, IIRC. 

(4) Although the link that you shared doesn't mention Ruth's handing over LHO's Soviet Embassy Letter to James Hosty -- it does mention the CONTENTS of that letter, e.g. the name, "Kostin" which is our only source of the name.  So, it is implicit in that link, although not explicit.  It's there.

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

Edited December 11, 2016 by Paul Trejo

[Chris Newton]

3 hours ago, Paul Trejo said:

(3) James Hosty's WC testimony admits that he spoke to Ruth Paine twice.   The first time it was with Marina, on 11/1/1963.  The second time it was with Ruth alone (when Marina snuck out to copy Hosty's license plate number).  These two visits were BOTH before LHO's November 9, 1963 letter was written. Ruth gave James Hosty her copy of LHO's Soviet Embassy Letter only after the JFK assassination.  Handed to him personally, IIRC. 

This is one of the big problems with Ruth's testimony. I'm going to spend the better part of today researching and I should have some citations posted tonight. Hosty spoke to Ruth once, the first visit when he went out there alone. On the second visit, SA Odom spoke to Ruth and it is he who has possession of Ruth's handwritten copy of the letter.

I want someone to explain how Odom has the letter from Ruth on Nov. 5th if Lee didn't type his letter until Nov. 9th or 10th.

A big clue to the lie of this whole story is the fate of the "original" Oswald written draft.

 

[Paul Trejo]

2 hours ago, Chris Newton said:

This is one of the big problems with Ruth's testimony. I'm going to spend the better part of today researching and I should have some citations posted tonight. Hosty spoke to Ruth once, the first visit when he went out there alone. On the second visit, SA Odom spoke to Ruth and it is he who has possession of Ruth's handwritten copy of the letter.

I want someone to explain how Odom has the letter from Ruth on Nov. 5th if Lee didn't type his letter until Nov. 9th or 10th.

A big clue to the lie of this whole story is the fate of the "original" Oswald written draft.

Chris,

I applaud your skepticism and your effort here.  I also have some issues with the Hosty story -- though slightly different.

First, however, let me share with you Hosty's own words in his book, Assignment Oswald (1996):

On the afternoon of 11/22/1963, when all hell was breaking loose in Dallas, Hosty was there at the DPD station, and he saw LHO's black address book.  Hosty fixes the time at 4:25 pm, and he said the following:

"...What in the Sam Hill is my name doing in Oswald's address book?  Then in hit me...I had met Oswald's wife on November 1st and 5th.  During the first visit, I had given Marina's friend Ruth Paine my office telephone number and name."  (Hosty, p. 27)

Then, on the morning of 11/23/1963, Hosty was visiting Ruth Paine at her house, and she handed him the "Soviet Embassy Letter."  Hosty fixes the time at 10:00 am, and he said the following: 

"Ruth later learned from Marina that Lee gave her explicit instructions to get my name and car tag number if and when I returned.  When I did so on November 5th, Marina quietly sneaked out of the house while Ruth was talking to me and wrote down my license plate number..'After your second visit, Mr. Hosty,' Ruth said, 'Lee came home again for the long Veterans' Day weekend...and I came across a handwritten letter from Lee to the Soviet Embassy...'  'Do you still have it?' I asked, 'trying not to sound too anxious.  'Sure, let me get it...'  (Hosty, p. 40)

So, it is according to Hosty's own words that I gave the timeline.  Now -- what bothers me is that Hosty allegedly received the "Soviet Embassy Letter" at 10:00 am on 11/23/1963, but on that very same day, the FBI published a memo from DJ Brennan, saying that CIA agent Pete Bagley already knew about the contents of the "Soviet Embassy Letter" including "Kostin" and the "Havana Embassy."

No matter how I turn it, it appears to me that the "sensitive informant" of Brennan's 11/23/1963 FBI memo, must have been James Hosty.  

I look forward to reading the results of your research, Chris.

 Regards,
--Paul Trejo

  

Edited December 11, 2016 by Paul Trejo

[Chris Newton]

Anything jump out at you about these statements?

 

Edited December 11, 2016 by Chris Newton