Jump to content
The Education Forum

A probe was connected from the back wound tot he throat wound during the autopsy


Micah Mileto
 Share

Recommended Posts

I think I have become familiar with the evidence that the autopsy doctors strongly considered the possibility that the throat wound was an exit for a bullet that entered the base of the head, and according to witnesses Lipsey and Robinson, they probed this trajectory through the body.

What's even more strange is that a probe was apparently connected from the back wound to the throat wound. It would appear that this occurred during the autopsy, however for some strange reason Humes, Boswell, and Finck never brought this up.

Here's a list of evidence I've got so far for this happening - am I missing anything?

 

1. According to a 1967 CBS memo from Bob Richter, Jim Snyder (a CBS executive?) is a personal friend of Dr. Humes, Humes told him that during the autopsy a probe was connected from the back wound to the throat wound, and that an x-ray was made of this probe. https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=597

 

2. The 8/11/1978 HSCA deposition of photographer Robert L. Knudsen features Knudsen speaking extensively about remembering seeing films of probes going through wounds in the body. Knudsen said that he saw two, and as many as three probes in different photographs going into/through the body.  This included a probe seen going from high in the back of the neck to the front of the neck, and probe that went from lower in the back to the front of the neck (saying "the point in the back was a little bit lower than the point in the front"). 

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=666#relPageId=23&tab=page

 

audio available here: https://www.maryferrell.org/pages/HSCA_Medical_Interviews.html

 

3. A 8/23/1977 HSCA interview report with autopsy witness Dr. Robert F. Karnei, Jr. says that Karnei recalls the body being probed and photographs of this probing being taken.

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=325#relPageId=5&tab=page

 

Furthermore, In a 7/16/1996 testimony with the ARRB, autopsy photographer John Stringer said that although he could not recall taking photographs of probing of the body, he remembered a probe being inserted into the back wound and the throat wound, both which did not exit.

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=798&search=probe#relPageId=17&tab=page

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=798&relPageId=36&search=probe

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

In a 8/29/1977 HSCA interview report with autopsy witness James Curtis Jenkins, Jenkins said that he recalled that Dr. Humes "attempted to probe the back wound", but "he said he didn't believe the doctor found that the probe "...penetrated into the chest."

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=329#relPageId=5&tab=page

It is unclear whether he's talking about probing with a finger or probing with a rod, because the report goes on to say (on page 8):

"Mr. Jenkins recalls Humes trying to probe the wound with his finger which enabled him to reach the end of the wound. He said that around the time of the probing they repeated took x-rays of the area."

 

 

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Check Finck's ARRB testimony and Roy Kellerman's WC testimony.

There was no connection made at all.

James Curtis Jenkins was a lab tech at the autopsy and made this statement to David Lifton:

(quote on)

I remember looking inside the chest cavity and I could see the probe...through the pleura

[the lining of the chest cavity]...You could actually see where it was making an indentation...

where it was pushing the skin up...There was no entry into the chest cavity...it would have

been no way that that could have exited in the front because it was then low in the chest cavity...

somewhere around the junction of the descending aorta [the main artery carrying blood from the

heart] or the bronchus in the lungs.

(quote off)

 

 

 

Edited by Cliff Varnell
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Cliff Varnell said:

Check Finck's ARRB testimony and Roy Kellerman's WC testimony.

There was no connection made at all.

James Curtis Jenkins was a lab tech at the autopsy and made this statement to David Lifton:

(quote on)

I remember looking inside the chest cavity and I could see the probe...through the pleura

[the lining of the chest cavity]...You could actually see where it was making an indentation...

where it was pushing the skin up...There was no entry into the chest cavity...it would have

been no way that that could have exited in the front because it was then low in the chest cavity...

somewhere around the junction of the descending aorta [the main artery carrying blood from the

heart] or the bronchus in the lungs.

(quote off)

 

Yes, but I mean a forced connection. The correct word to use would be "shoved". The probe was shoved from the back wound to the throat wound. Thanks for the other reference to a probe.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, Micah Mileto said:

Yes, but I mean a forced connection. The correct word to use would be "shoved". The probe was shoved from the back wound to the throat wound. Thanks for the other reference to a probe.

 

So when Jenkins said he could see the probe push on the pleura and the probe didn't enter the chest cavity he got that wrong?

Edited by Cliff Varnell
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Micah Mileto said:

Actually, now that I think about it, it sounds more like the cowlick.

 

:P

 

Yep, 'cause that's where everyone's cowlick is, 4 inches below the bottom of your collar.

I apologize to the memory of JFK for engaging in this fake discussion.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Micah Mileto said:

I think I have become familiar with the evidence that the autopsy doctors strongly considered the possibility that the throat wound was an exit for a bullet that entered the base of the head, and according to witnesses Lipsey and Robinson, they probed this trajectory through the body.

What's even more strange is that a probe was apparently connected from the back wound to the throat wound. It would appear that this occurred during the autopsy, however for some strange reason Humes, Boswell, and Finck never brought this up.

Here's a list of evidence I've got so far for this happening - am I missing anything?

 

1. According to a 1967 CBS memo from Bob Richter, Jim Snyder (a CBS executive?) is a personal friend of Dr. Humes, Humes told him that during the autopsy a probe was connected from the back wound to the throat wound, and that an x-ray was made of this probe. https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=597

Most likely this was a lie designed to support the SBT. The official account is that Humes was unaware of the throat wound at the time of the autopsy, and learned about it the following morning. But there is too much testimony to the contrary for this to be believed.

2. The 8/11/1978 HSCA deposition of photographer Robert L. Knudsen features Knudsen speaking extensively about remembering seeing films of probes going through wounds in the body. Knudsen said that he saw two, and as many as three probes in different photographs going into/through the body.  This included a probe seen going from high in the back of the neck to the front of the neck, and probe that went from lower in the back to the front of the neck (saying "the point in the back was a little bit lower than the point in the front"). 

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=666#relPageId=23&tab=page

I just read Knudsen's testimony and I disagree with the part of your interpretation that I've highlighted in red. The way I read it is this: The probe extended out roughly the middle of the back (lower than the actual location of the back wound, but surely he was referring to that wound), and the other end extended out through the chest wall at a little higher level. Clearly either Knudsen misremembered that end of that probe, or the chest wall was open at the time the photo was taken. (He thought the chest wasn't open.)

audio available here: https://www.maryferrell.org/pages/HSCA_Medical_Interviews.html

 

3. A 8/23/1977 HSCA interview report with autopsy witness Dr. Robert F. Karnei, Jr. says that Karnei recalls the body being probed and photographs of this probing being taken.

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=325#relPageId=5&tab=page

 

Furthermore, In a 7/16/1996 testimony with the ARRB, autopsy photographer John Stringer said that although he could not recall taking photographs of probing of the body, he remembered a probe being inserted into the back wound and the throat wound, both which did not exit.

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=798&search=probe#relPageId=17&tab=page

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=798&relPageId=36&search=probe

 

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Micah Mileto said:

I'm having trouble visualizing what you mean. 

I'll explain it more carefully. Knudsen described the path of the back-wound probe as follows:

(BTW, I don't recall if Knudsen distinguished between entrance and exit wounds. I'll call the wound on the back the entrance.)

Knudsen saw the probes in a profile (side) view of Kennedy, with his upper body erect. The lower of the two probes entered a wound on JFK's back that Knudsen described as being located roughly in the middle of the back. Of course, we know that the wound was a few inches higher than that.

Knudsen said the probe exited the chest at a level a little higher than the back wound. That is, the probe had a upward slope from back to front. But this probe did NOT exit the throat wound... it exited the chest.

The natural question then is how the probe exited the chest. Knudsen apparently didn't know there was no bullet hole there. He was asked if the chest wall was open when that photo was taken. (In other words, had the organs already been removed.) Knudsen didn't believe so, but he wasn't sure. Obviously either the chest wall was open or the probe didn't really extend out through the chest.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Sandy Larsen said:

Knudsen saw the probes in a profile (side) view of Kennedy, with his upper body erect.

Hey Sandy, are you saying they sat his body up and the probe angled upward at a slight angle from his back to his front?

I'm guessing that event, the sitting him up part, might have been pretty traumatic for all the witnesses in the gallery with half his head gone.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Please sign in to comment

You will be able to leave a comment after signing in



Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...