Was Lovelady A Big Fat Prevaricator, Or What?

[Robert Prudhomme]

https://catalog.archives.gov/id/7461156

Never seen this before. Bill Shelley giving a statement to the FBI on March 18, 1964. Go to Page 20.

Edited December 31, 2016 by Robert Prudhomme

[Sandy Larsen]

2 hours ago, Robert Prudhomme said:

Sorry, Robin, but I've seen better quality gifs than this one, and there is definitely a person there. 

Bob, I remember seeing Bending-Over Man (who I assumed was Lovelady). Didn't we see him in the process of bending over? Or straightening up? (I thought that's how we knew he was bending over.) If so, then that must have occurred outside of the time-span of Robin's gif.

[Sandy Larsen]

1 minute ago, Sandy Larsen said:

Bob, I remember seeing Bending-Over Man (who I assumed was Lovelady). Didn't we see him in the process of bending over? Or straightening up? (I thought that's how we knew he was bending over.) If so, then that must have occurred outside of the time-span of Robin's gif.

I just found the stabilized composite gif on my computer, and it is very clear. Sure enough, it shows Bending-Over Man straightening up at the very end. This is when Baker takes his very last step as the film ends.

So Lovelady was there on the steps after the shooting after all. Which means he's not walking down Elm St. extension with Shelley in the films.

Of course, I'm assuming the guy is Lovelady.

[Robert Prudhomme]

LOL Well it's not like there isn't an awful lot of assuming going on already, such as PM and the gif allegedly showing Shelley and Lovelady walking down the Elm St. extension together. We might as well join the club.

One of us is going to have to go back in a time machine and take some higher resolution videos of everything.

[Robin Unger]

6 hours ago, Sandy Larsen said:

I just found the stabilized composite gif on my computer, and it is very clear. Sure enough, it shows Bending-Over Man straightening up at the very end. This is when Baker takes his very last step as the film ends.

So Lovelady was there on the steps after the shooting after all. Which means he's not walking down Elm St. extension with Shelley in the films.

Of course, I'm assuming the guy is Lovelady.

 

I can't see Lovelady in this GIF ?

 

[Robert Prudhomme]

He is directly in front of PM.

[Robin Unger]

1 minute ago, Robert Prudhomme said:

He is directly in front of PM.

OK

now that i have confirmed which person you were referring too as Lovelady, i will take a closer look.

[Robert Prudhomme]

On a brighter note, everyone,  have written two letters in my quest to determine how tall Bill Shelley was in 1963. Bill passed away in 1996 but I believe I have, with the help of others, found an address for his son, William B. Shelley. I have also found the address for a journalist who interviewed Shelley in the early 1970's.

As you know, all evidence thus far indicates Shelley was a very short man; much shorter than the 5'8" Bill Lovelady. In the gif that is purported to be Shelley and Lovelady walking down the Elm St. extension, Shelley is obviously taller than Lovelady. If I receive proof of Shelley being a short man, this will disprove this gif.

[Robin Unger]

[Thomas Graves]

51 minutes ago, Robert Prudhomme said:

On a brighter note, everyone,  have written two letters in my quest to determine how tall Bill Shelley was in 1963. Bill passed away in 1996 but I believe I have, with the help of others, found an address for his son, William B. Shelley. I have also found the address for a journalist who interviewed Shelley in the early 1970's.

As you know, all evidence thus far indicates Shelley was a very short man; much shorter than the 5'8" Bill Lovelady. In the gif that is purported to be Shelley and Lovelady walking down the Elm St. extension, Shelley is obviously taller than Lovelady. If I receive proof of Shelley being a short man, this will disprove this gif.

Dear Bob,

All evidence?  (what evidence?)

Obviously?  (red flag! red flag! red flag!)

Oh My God.  Here we go again.

--  Tommy

 

[Robert Prudhomme]

The evidence I am referring to is just about the only thing there is that gives us any indication of Bill Shelley's height. It is a photo of him in the uniform of a ROTC lieutenant in his senior year in high school. In this photo, Shelley is standing beside another ROTC lieutenant who towers over Shelley by about a foot.

With Bill Lovelady being 5'8" tall, Shelley would have to be, at the least, 5'9" to be seen as being taller than Lovelady in the Darnell film.

For Shelley to be 5'9", his fellow officer would have to be 6'9"; very uncommon for someone in 1945. If his fellow officer was 6'3", that would make Shelley 5'3", and, therefore, that would eliminate him as a candidate for the man seen in the Darnell film.

I hate to be a fly in the ointment but, I no more believe that is Shelley and Lovelady walking in Darnell than I believe PM is Oswald. I believe there is a strong possibility both are true but, as they say, BS don't pay for the whiskey. I need more proof and refuse to accept these things on faith. As you might have guessed, I am an atheist, too.

[Ray Mitcham]

18 hours ago, Robert Prudhomme said:

He is directly in front of PM.

I agree with you. Bob. When the above  gif is slowed down to a quarter speed, it certainly look like Lovelady to me.

Edited January 1, 2017 by Ray Mitcham

[Clive Largey]

On 12/30/2016 at 8:14 PM, Robert Prudhomme said:

I believe Lovelady is visible on the steps. Our left, partway down, facing the camera. Bent over as though speaking to the person below him facing him. He seems to rise up partially from this position.

I believe this is the gif you were referring to Robert.

Still looks like him alright(about to light up a cigarette when he gets those matches out of his pocket?) but IMO the better quality Couch clip with the two men following Smith is winning at the moment, as long as the other guy doesn't have to be Shelley. I say that because the "BL" character appears to moving to his own tune and not along with the other man, so perhaps they came from completely different places, for example, the suited man may have followed Smith from the intersection. 

I still maintain that all of these people in this immediate area are completely clueless to the assassination and that for me is the most interesting thing about these film clips, the only exceptions being Baker/Smith and perhaps that running woman who is pushing just a little too hard to be just getting back to her desk.

 

[Paul Trejo]

On 12/30/2016 at 10:58 AM, Thomas Graves said:

Mr. BALL - You heard the shots. And how long after that was it before Gloria Calvary came up? 
Mr. LOVELADY - Oh, approximately 3 minutes, I would say. 
Mr. BALL - Three minutes is a long time.  [hint, hint]
Mr. LOVELADY - Yes, it's---I say approximately; I can't say because I don't have a watch; it could. 
Mr. BALL - Had people started to run? 
Mr. LOVELADY - Well, I couldn't say because she came up to us and we was talking to her, wasn't looking that direction at that time, but when we came off the steps--see, that entrance, you have a blind side when you go down the steps. 
Mr. BALL - Right after you talked to Gloria, did you [meaning Lovelady and Shelley] leave the steps and go toward the tracks? 
Mr. LOVELADY - Yes. 

Tommy,

I take it that you agree that the 3-minute TIMING by Billy Lovelady is totally in doubt.  From the film being shown, if the lady running up to the steps of the TSBD front doors was Gloria Calvary, then it was only a matter of SECONDS before she ran up.

Also -- look at Billy Lovelady's pitiful English grammar: "we was talking to her."   This shows sloppiness in English usage, so that suggests sloppiness in his TIMING.   

Here is the TIMING as I see it today:

(1) Given that Gloria Calvary was on the westerly side of the Grassy Knoll, 50 yards from the front steps of the TSBD, she could have made that 50 yard dash in 10 seconds.  (Young schoolgirls can run that in 8.5 seconds.)

(2) Gloria exclaimed to Bill Shelley and Billy Lovelady that somebody from the Grassy Knoll shot JFK's head off -- and the two men asked if she was sure, and she said yes.   Another 10 seconds.

(3)  The two men dashed for the "little old island" directly to the south of the TSBD front steps -- the tip of which is only about 10 yards away.   That would have taken less than 10 seconds.  

(4) As Billy Lovelady said, from "about 25 feet away," (e.g. 10 yards) they looked back to see Officer Marrion Baker rush into the TSBD followed by Roy Truly.  

So, I count approximately 30 SECONDS -- by this logic -- for Shelley-Lovelady to look back to see Baker-Truly.  This matches what Baker-Truly reported in their testimony.  It fits very well.  

We only need to discount Lovelady's pitiful sense of TIMING and also his English grammar, to acknowledge this likely scenario.

Obviously, in this scenario, LHO would be on the 2nd floor of the TSBD.  No TSBD employees reported seeing LHO at the front of the TSBD as y'all are speculating here.

Regards,
--Paul Trejo 

Edited January 9, 2017 by Paul Trejo

[Sandy Larsen]

23 hours ago, Clive Largey said:

I believe this is the gif you were referring to Robert.

Still looks like him alright(about to light up a cigarette when he gets those matches out of his pocket?) but IMO the better quality Couch clip with the two men following Smith is winning at the moment, as long as the other guy doesn't have to be Shelley. I say that because the "BL" character appears to moving to his own tune and not along with the other man, so perhaps they came from completely different places, for example, the suited man may have followed Smith from the intersection. 

I still maintain that all of these people in this immediate area are completely clueless to the assassination and that for me is the most interesting thing about these film clips, the only exceptions being Baker/Smith and perhaps that running woman who is pushing just a little too hard to be just getting back to her desk.

 

I'm not so sure the Lovelady character here is bending over. His face seems to remain in full view (not tipped down) the whole time. I think he may just be stepping up to a higher step.