Alistair Briggs Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 14 hours ago, John Butler said: ... Here is another scene from Muchmore that is highly suspicious. There is nobody in the back of the presidential limousine. There appears to be a Dallas policeman firing a gun or taking a picture. The scene is fairly blurry. But, it is sufficiently clear to see there is no one in the back seat. John, where do you think the back seat of the limo is then to state that it is clear there is no one in the back seat? Not being funny here but I can clearly see who is sitting in the back seat there! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Walton Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 John Butler - not everything about this case is a conspiracy. Ask yourself - the Bad Guys really, and I mean really, wanted Kennedy dead. And in addition to that, they also didn't want to get caught. Otherwise, the patsy story would be completely ruined. So do you really think that they would have taken a risk of trying something insane way up earlier from the kill zone? They had it all planned out down there in the plaza - great shooting locations, fewer people down there, the SS would have let their collective guards down a little bit ("we're almost done and at the Trade Mart"), places where they could shoot undetected, throw their weapon to a spotter and blend in or disappear, and so on. All they needed was that quick 5-6 second kill zone. And that's pretty much what happened. So why in the world would you and others ever think that they'd want to do something way up on Main and Houston...and then you're even saying that they somehow got a hold of the Muchmore film to add a "ghost" in the film to cover it all up? Do you not see how illogical, implausible and crazy this is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad Milch Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 (edited) @Alistair: A couple of my friends are also working on the Muchmore images from the turn onto Houston from Main Street. One is searching for evidence of the 'phantom train' one of the two DPD officers stationed on top of the triple underpass testified to the WC was passing across the bridge during the ambush. That visual analyst is looking at the Muchmore JFK parade car side reflections showing glimpses of the top of the triple underpass. The other is searching for evidence that Patsy Paschall filmed the parade car turn onto Houston Street that was later cut out of her film by early investigators that obtained her film during the WC tenure. To me, the most suspicious thing in the Muchmore Houston Street sequence is the fellow sitting on the Dal-Tex fire escape with his body turned in the direction of the window to the side & below him. If he was a spotter for a window shooter or not would be of interest to those who believe the Dal-Tex building (home of Abraham Zapruder's garment manufacturing business) hid at least one shooter during the ambush of JFK. Sincerely & best of luck in your research efforts in this new year, Brad Milch Edited January 2, 2017 by Brad Milch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alistair Briggs Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 Brad, that sound very intriguing indeed. *Just to point out, I think you might have meant to address your post to John rather than myself, as it is he that is working on the Muchmore images (my post at the top merely included the image he posted). Regards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Butler Posted January 3, 2017 Author Share Posted January 3, 2017 (edited) The Patsy Paschall film is dark and hard to interpret. You really don’t get to see much as the motorcade advances on Main Street toward the intersection of Main and Houston. It doesn’t get to or just about gets to the intersection of Main and Houston when the film skips over to Elm Street. There is an interesting frame that shows what has happened to this film. As you can see the occupants are obscured by dark paint. I call this frame the Giant Jackie frame. Jackie Kennedy in this frame is huge. Patsy Paschal is heavily edited by black paint also. Most of the imagery is obscured. The same can be said of the Elsie Dorman film. There are many frames in Elsie Dorman that has been heavily edited to hide or obscure what is shown. Here is another example that shows air brushed black paint in circles. Why are films being edited at the intersection of Main and Houston Street?. Why is the Elsle Dorman film so heavily edited? Good questions. Edited April 13, 2018 by John Butler new photos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Butler Posted January 3, 2017 Author Share Posted January 3, 2017 (edited) Brad, I did an article on another website called The Ghost Train of Dealey Plaza. It is an offshoot of a study of Altgens 7. I was told that's not important just blah, blah, blah, and that the piece was just a rehash of the old stuff in the Kennedy assassination. They weren't happy with the piece and kept threatening me about rules. Jack White worked on the idea of missing train that you can see behind the pergola in some photos but not others. You might be able to find the post on Greg Burnhams site. If not I can send it to you. It might be helpful The last frames in Patsy Paschal shows the blacked out train. Here is an image from Patsy Paschal. It is blacken well. The image is small I was only allowed to upload 40 kb. In this frame you can see the blackened out area at the top of the Triple Underpass. Edited April 13, 2018 by John Butler new photos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Butler Posted January 3, 2017 Author Share Posted January 3, 2017 Michael, The evidence for something happening at the intersection of Main and Houston is not very, very, strong. I just realize I sounded Iike J. Edgar Hoover. Damn. However, there are suspicious events there. Why edit films and photos in that area? What's the point? Houston Street is even worse. 8 of 16 films that show the presidential limousine approaching the Court Records building jump to the intersection of Houston and Elm or jump all the way over to Elm Street. Robert Hughes gives the best record of the motorcade traveling down Houston. But, it too skips to the intersection. There is not a single film or photo showing the limo passing the Court Records building. What's the point in doing that? It is way beyond coincidence or happenstance for these film not showing the presidential limousine traveling past the Court Records building. Dealey Plaza is Murder Plaza. You can shoot from anywhere with a reasonable expectation you are going to hit your target with just about any weapon you choose. The worse location to me in the sniper's nest. The idea of shooting from there with a bolt action scoped rifle at a moving target would give me nightmares. Oswald so called feat has never been repeated by experts on the first try. The best ambush is an L shaped ambush. It is the simplest of military ambushes. And, it is the produces the most effective kill zone. The Court Records building, the Dal-Tex, the TSBD, the Grassy Knoll, and the Triple Underpass produce that L shaped ambush. If you rely on a 6-7 second ambush that has a small kill zone and you are shooting from 65 feet in the air with a scoped rifle you are not going to get your man. It is a ridiculous idea shooting with a scoped rifle at a moving target. To me the best place to shoot from is the Triple Underpass. I have always ruled that out because of Officers J.W. Foster and J.C. White being there. However, I am beginning to change my mind because of the long, slow freight train that Officer J. C. White describes being there at the time of the assassination. The boxcar on the train if it just paused for about 20 seconds would be the best platform for Kennedy's right temporal to rear occipital wound. However, there is little proof of this also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Butler Posted January 3, 2017 Author Share Posted January 3, 2017 Alastair, Where's Nellie? I get to ask this question more than once when looking at the Kennedy Limo in other places. Altgens 6 is a good example. There is some kind of small Kennedy image there or something on the street. Where's Jackie? William Greer is there. Maybe Roy Kellerman. The angles could hide Governor Connolly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alistair Briggs Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 (edited) John, You avoided my question of asking where you thought the back seat was in the image you posted, you previously stated that it was "sufficiently clear to see there is no one in the back seat.". I asked the question more for clarification as I had the feeling that you may have been 'missreading' the photo... Anyroads, I took that same image and put on some lines to point out where everyone is... Sure Gv. Connally is obscured because of the 'angle' and the 'sun reflection' on the side window and Greer's head, and JFK is also somewhat obscured by Nellie's head... note that the red line I put on indicating Nellie ends on her left shoulder and you can see that is her shoulder by the fact it is pink. Jackie is clearly evident! Both Nellie and Jackie are wearing pink, but only Jackie has a pink hat. My feeling (and please correct me if I'm wrong) is you missread the photo and thought the pink hat belonged to Nellie and as there was no one in the limo behind that position that you felt the back seats were empty? Have a look at what Robin Unger posted previously in this thread... It is clear that the image you posted original came from this. From watching this whole clip any 'confusion' about the lone image should be cleared up... When it comes to lone images, whether it is a photograph or just a still/frame taken from a photo, sometimes the angle of it can hide certain things and from a casual view it can lead to confusion. Objects and reflections can 'blind' us to seeing things. In the image you posted the sun reflection on the window and the window itself is obscuring the view of Nellie. You mentioned the Altgens 6 image... (I've added some more lines to point a couple of things out ) Things to notice. We can see the steering wheel, behind which Greer must be, the flag obscures our view in to that side of the limo and that is why we can't make out Greer, Nellie or Jackie's face. The Altgens 6 photo ties in (approx.) with Zapruder frame 255... The driver is obscured somewhat by the windshields,but Nellie (remember, wearing pink) can clearly be seen as can gov. Connally turned to the side. Note also how Jackie appears to be sitting more erect than JFK, hence why her hat is visible over the top of the windshield in the Altgens 6 photo. Genuinely, with the absolute upmost of respect to you John, may I suggest a bit more prudence in your thinking; missreading some images in a way that can be demonstrably debunked may lead to a lack of credibility for when (if) you do find something of purpose. Reagrds Edited January 3, 2017 by Alistair Briggs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Unger Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 Dorman inferior frame posted on purpose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad Milch Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 (edited) Hi again, Alistair: As I remember past original JFK Lancer discussions, there were 2 unconventional, unorthodox interpretations of the Altgens6 photo discussed at that doomed to exist website: Interpretation #1: JFK is bent forward (towards the windshield area of the parade car) & his left fist is arched back towards the center of his back. This interpretation agrees with Roy Kellerman's WC testimony. It does not agree with the Zapruder film. Interpretation #2: JFK is laying flat across the back seat while Jackie holds his right arm up. (some believed JFK's shoe is visible in the lower portion of JFK's face). This interpretation does not agree with the Zapruder film. It was around the time of this particular discussion that Lancer was hacked for the last, fatal time. I've often wondered if that topic struck a deep nerve that motivated the sicko's that destroyed the entire website. Sincerely, Brad Milch PS: The most unconventional, unorthodox interpretation of the JFK ambush belongs to Mary Moorman (Kramer). Mary has maintained for over 53 years that the assassination began when she snapped her famous polaroid photo while the parade car was a street lane away from her filming position. This puts the 1st shot at Z-313, with two more in rapid succession following. Mary mimicked the sound she heard in a 2013 interview posted at YouTube. IOW, the movements & reactions to gunfire of JFK & JBC prior to Z-313 did not happen as they are seen in the Zapruder film (according to Mary) Edited January 3, 2017 by Brad Milch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alistair Briggs Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 (edited) Brad, can you confirm that those two interpretations you mention are in reference to Altgens 6! I only ask because I get the feeling it is in relation to another photo altogether or perhaps I am missing something obvious here. Also I reckon you are mixing me up with John again as it his he that is more interested in the photos than I. Regards Edited January 3, 2017 by Alistair Briggs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Butler Posted January 3, 2017 Author Share Posted January 3, 2017 (edited) Alaistair, Your are almost making a believer out of me. Your explanation looks good and if true I stand corrected. There's still a problem. Is it Nellie or Kennedy you point out as Kennedy. I still don't see Nellie. Jackie should be sitting behind the partially raised window in what looks like an empty seat. This photo seems to have the same perspective problem as Altgens 6 for the placement of Nellie and Jackie. I'm almost with you but, not quite. Maybe you can explain further. Sorry, for the avoiding issue. I don't want to get into a fight or argument with anyone and get kicked off. When that happens, even if you are right you still feel bad. Edited January 3, 2017 by John Butler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alistair Briggs Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 John, In the image you posted Kennedy would be diagonally behind Nellie and thus he would be 'obscured' in that image. Nellie's head is hard to see because of the 'sun glare' on the 'window partition' but you can see that is where she is as you can see her pink shoulder. I think it's just the angle of it that is tripping you up a bit. Your expectation is that Jackie should be sitting behind the partially raised window, but in that image it appears, because of the angle, that she is sitting beside it rather than behind it. Remember, both Nellie and Jackie are wearing pink clothes, but it is only Jackie that has a pink hat! Again, here is the clip that Robin Unger posted earlier. That alone should really clear that issue up. Regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Butler Posted January 3, 2017 Author Share Posted January 3, 2017 (edited) Alastair, I don't want to talk about Altgens 6 yet. I first want to talk about Altgens 5 first. Altgens 5 is at the corner of Main and Houston. I'm not quite done with things I'm seeing there. I am next going to post the Weaver photo. And, Altgens 5 will come next. Edited January 3, 2017 by John Butler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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