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Was Shelley Ever On The TSBD Front Steps That Day??


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I've noticed it was getting a little dull around here so I thought I'd liven things up a little with something that's been bothering me for a while now.

Those that believe Shelley and Lovelady can be seen in the Darnell film, strolling westward down the Elm St. extension while Baker runs for the TSBD front entrance, are fond of saying it must be Shelley and Lovelady that are seen in Darnell on the extension, as they cannot be seen on the steps.

While Billy Lovelady can plainly be seen in photographs and films on the steps, it has occurred to me that, while the six foot tall Buell Wesley Frazier and his slick 'em back hair stick out like a sore thumb, no one has ever positively identified Bill Shelley on the top of the steps where he claimed he was standing. For that matter, there were an awful lot of people who claimed to be standing on the top step, and photos and stills don't show it to be that crowded.

Now, before anyone starts going on about how many witnesses supposedly saw Shelley there, and how that proves he must have been there, think about this. A white helmeted police officer ran up the stairs and entered the front door, and NO ONE on the top step saw him; not even Frazier who was standing right in front of the door and who likely had to move out of the way to let Baker get by.

SERIOUSLY??? Three rifle shots go off barely 20 yards above your head and a helmeted motorcycle cop almost runs you over going into the building, and you don't see him?? I do not believe it for one second.

The other thing I do not believe is Frazier's lack of recall when it comes to Prayer Man. Frazier spent many years not only refusing to admit PM was Oswald, he could not even recall anyone actually standing in the corner where PM obviously was; despite the fact he was looking directly at PM in the corner in the Darnell film.

Can you really look directly at someone standing all by himself on the west end of the top step, and not see that person?

Obviously, you can, as Frazier proves to us. Therefore, in light of Frazier's recall or lack of, I do not find it strange in the least that people can recall seeing Shelley on the top step, and the possibility exists he was never there. I need proof.

WHERE IS WILLIAM HOYT SHELLEY???

Edited by Robert Prudhomme
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Just now, Robert Prudhomme said:

I've noticed it was getting a little dull around here so I thought I'd liven things up a little with something that's been bothering me for a while now.

Those that believe Shelley and Lovelady can be seen in the Darnell film, strolling westward down the Elm St. extension while Baker runs for the TSBD front entrance, are fond of saying it must be Shelley and Lovelady that are seen in Darnell on the extension, as they cannot be seen on the steps.

While Billy Lovelady can plainly be seen in photographs and films on the steps, it has occurred to me that, while the six foot tall Buell Wesley Frazier and his slick 'em back hair stick out like a sore thumb, no one has ever positively identified Bill Shelley on the top of the steps where he claimed he was standing. For that matter, there were an awful lot of people who claimed to be standing on the top step, and photos and stills don't show it to be that crowded.

Now, before anyone starts going on about how many witnesses supposedly saw Shelley there, and how that proves he must have been there, think about this. A white helmeted police officer ran up the stirs and entered the front door, and NO ONE on the top step saw him; not even Frazier who was standing right in front of the door and who likely had to move out of the way to let Baker get by.

SERIOUSLY??? Three rifle shots go off barely 20 yards above your head and a helmeted motorcycle cop almost runs you over going into the building, and you don't see him?? I do not believe it for one second.

The other thing I do not believe is Frazier's lack of recall when it comes to Prayer Man. Frazier spent many years not only refusing to admit PM was Oswald, he could not even recall anyone actually standing in the corner where PM obviously was; despite the fact he was looking directly at PM in the corner in the Darnell film.

Can you really look directly at someone standing all by himself on the west end of the top step, and not see that person?

Obviously, you can, as Frazier proves to us. Therefore, in light of Frazier's recall or lack of, I do not find it strange in the least that people can recall seeing Shelley on the top step, and the possibility exists he was never there. I need proof.

WHERE IS WILLIAM HOYT SHELLEY???

Probably with another mysto person, Gloria Jean Calvary, at an upper-floor window in the TSBD.

--  Tommy :sun

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This is like playing "Where's Waldo?". I'll bet no one can find him.

And no, I don't believe he is the potbellied guy in the white shirt with the skinny black tie seen behind Lovelady in Altgens 6. Shelley was too lean to be that guy, who is likely Molina or Williams.

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Robert,

I'm surprised you think Shelley may not have been there.

As for why nobody saw Officer Baker run into the building, I think it's because he didn't go in till three or four minutes after the shooting. As testified to by Shelley and Lovelady, who were out on the concrete island across Elm extension at the time.

See the guy below labeled "Otis Williams," with his right hand up shielding his eyes from the sun? For any who might not be able to make out the figure, he is blocking the view of Joe Molina's body, is wearing a white shirt, and we are looking at the tip of his right elbow, which is pointed straight at us from his folded arm. I've always thought that this is Bill Shelley. I know he's not on the top landing, but he's near it. I'd say one step down.

(NOTE: The names printed on this photo don't reflect my opinion.)

HSCA-enlargement-w-names-Altgens6.jpg

Edited by Sandy Larsen
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1 hour ago, Sandy Larsen said:

Robert,

I'm surprised you think Shelley may not have been there.

As for why nobody saw Officer Baker run into the building, I think it's because he didn't go in till three or four minutes after the shooting. As testified to by Shelley and Lovelady, who were out on the concrete island across Elm extension at the time.

See the guy below labeled "Otis Williams," with his right hand up shielding his eyes from the sun? For any who might not be able to make out the figure, he is blocking the view of Joe Molina's body, is wearing a white shirt, and we are looking at the tip of his right elbow, which is pointed straight at us from his folded arm. I've always thought that this is Bill Shelley. I know he's not on the top landing, but he's near it. I'd say one step down.

HSCA-enlargement-w-names-Altgens6.jpg

FWIW, I don't think the guy wearing the tie is Shelley because his chin and cheeks look too round and "full" to me. Also, he looks too broad-chested and thick-necked to be Shelley, IMHO.  Another thing that I've just now noticed is that the man above seems to have a thin metal tie clip about halfway down his tie.

 

It's interesting to note that Shelley wasn't wearing a tie clip that day.  Also note the white handkerchief in his jacket pocket, below.

Image result for "william hoyt shelley"  

 

--  Tommy The T-R-O-L-L :sun

Edited by Thomas Graves
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31 minutes ago, Thomas Graves said:

 

1 hour ago, Sandy Larsen said:

 

(NOTE: The names printed on this photo don't reflect my opinion.)

HSCA-enlargement-w-names-Altgens6.jpg

FWIW, I don't think the guy wearing the tie is Shelley because his chin and cheeks look too round and "full" to me. Also, he looks too broad-chested and thick-necked to be Shelley, IMHO.  Another thing that I've just now noticed is that the man above seems to have a thin metal tie clip about halfway down his tie.

I agree.

It's interesting to note that Shelley wasn't wearing a tie clip that day.  Also note the white handkerchief in his jacket pocket, below.

Image result for "william hoyt shelley"  

 

--  Tommy The T-R-O-L-L :sun

 

 

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  • 4 months later...
On 1/5/2017 at 4:42 PM, Robert Prudhomme said:

I've noticed it was getting a little dull around here so I thought I'd liven things up a little with something that's been bothering me for a while now.

Those that believe Shelley and Lovelady can be seen in the Darnell film, strolling westward down the Elm St. extension while Baker runs for the TSBD front entrance, are fond of saying it must be Shelley and Lovelady that are seen in Darnell on the extension, as they cannot be seen on the steps.

While Billy Lovelady can plainly be seen in photographs and films on the steps, it has occurred to me that, while the six foot tall Buell Wesley Frazier and his slick 'em back hair stick out like a sore thumb, no one has ever positively identified Bill Shelley on the top of the steps where he claimed he was standing. For that matter, there were an awful lot of people who claimed to be standing on the top step, and photos and stills don't show it to be that crowded.

Now, before anyone starts going on about how many witnesses supposedly saw Shelley there, and how that proves he must have been there, think about this. A white helmeted police officer ran up the stairs and entered the front door, and NO ONE on the top step saw him; not even Frazier who was standing right in front of the door and who likely had to move out of the way to let Baker get by.

SERIOUSLY??? Three rifle shots go off barely 20 yards above your head and a helmeted motorcycle cop almost runs you over going into the building, and you don't see him?? I do not believe it for one second.

The other thing I do not believe is Frazier's lack of recall when it comes to Prayer Man. Frazier spent many years not only refusing to admit PM was Oswald, he could not even recall anyone actually standing in the corner where PM obviously was; despite the fact he was looking directly at PM in the corner in the Darnell film.

Can you really look directly at someone standing all by himself on the west end of the top step, and not see that person?

Obviously, you can, as Frazier proves to us. Therefore, in light of Frazier's recall or lack of, I do not find it strange in the least that people can recall seeing Shelley on the top step, and the possibility exists he was never there. I need proof.

WHERE IS WILLIAM HOYT SHELLEY???

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