Palmer McBride

[W. Tracy Parnell]

My rebuttal of the Palmer McBride allegations as they relate to the Armstrong Harvey & Lee theory draws on the work of David Lifton and Greg Parker.

http://wtracyparnell.blogspot.com/2017/01/palmer-mcbride.html

[Guest]

Thanks to Malcolm Blunt

 

Michael Wulf - Palmer McBride

 

Palmer McBride Nov 25 FBI report

[David Josephs]

[Jim Hargrove]

As Bart and DJ have pointed out the problem here is that “Lee Harvey Oswald” was working at Pfisterers Dental Lab in late 1957 and 1958, when he was supposed to be in Japan with the USMC.  As John A. wrote, “On Monday morning, 11/25/63, three days after President Kennedy was assassinated, FBI agents arrived at the dental lab. The agents took the owners of the company, one by one, into a private room and told them they were not to discuss the “Oswald matter” among themselves or with anyone. The agents then took all records and files relating to Oswald and left the building. Those files disappeared and were never seen again.”

With the Pfisterers records gone, the FBI was now free to say that “Oswald” worked at Pfisterers in early and to say that Palmer McBride was mistaken about the years.  But Linda Faircloth,  the president of Pfisterer Dental Labs in the late 20th century, also did a study for the owners of the lab and concluded that “Lee Harvey Oswald” did indeed work at Pfisterers in 1957 and 1958.  Her YouTube interview is here:

According to Mr. McBride, David Lifton tried hard to make him change his story, as the letter below shows:

[Guest]

From Malcolm Blunt who emailed me this:  

Doug Horne ARRB used the "Occums Razor" argument (too long ago to remember accurately) when dismissing McBride even though you can see in the handwritten interview which you posted it was only a few years after he had seen Oswald......what always struck me with Palmer was that he tied his memories of Oswald to Space Exploration events,when one asked him about Oswald he said that they discussed recent Russian space success(Sputnik)Oct 1957 or the fact that he and Oswald were together when the U.S. sent up "Explorer"(Jan 1958)...his best friend James Harrison Vance told me that McBride and Oswald visited his mother's house in Metaire the night Explorer went up...when Vance voiced these memories in 1966 the FBI came down on him like a ton of bricks....50years later when I spoke with him he was still terrified.....if there is nothing to this story why the need to scare the xxxx out of a person,so much so that he ended up moving to Tijuana in Mexico where he lived on until July 1998....

[Jim Hargrove]

4 hours ago, Bart Kamp said:

From Malcolm Blunt who emailed me this:  

Doug Horne ARRB used the "Occums Razor" argument (too long ago to remember accurately) when dismissing McBride even though you can see in the handwritten interview which you posted it was only a few years after he had seen Oswald......what always struck me with Palmer was that he tied his memories of Oswald to Space Exploration events,when one asked him about Oswald he said that they discussed recent Russian space success(Sputnik)Oct 1957 or the fact that he and Oswald were together when the U.S. sent up "Explorer"(Jan 1958)...his best friend James Harrison Vance told me that McBride and Oswald visited his mother's house in Metaire the night Explorer went up...when Vance voiced these memories in 1966 the FBI came down on him like a ton of bricks....50years later when I spoke with him he was still terrified.....if there is nothing to this story why the need to scare the xxxx out of a person,so much so that he ended up moving to Tijuana in Mexico where he lived on until July 1998....

Thanks, Bart, for posting the above information from Mr. Blunt.  I had no idea that James Harrison Vance was so hounded by the FBI for merely telling the truth that “Oswald” was at Pfisterers in late 1957 and 1958 instead of earlier, as the FBI so desperately wanted the world to believe.  John Armstrong once told me that Palmer McBride had a phenomenal memory about NASA launches, and could name precise information about scores of U.S. satellites.  John A. wrote the following about James Vance in H&L:

James Harrison Vance was Palmer McBride's best friend and a member of the New Orleans Amateur Astronomy Association (NOAAA). On one occasion McBride asked Vance if he would work in his place at the Pfisterer Dental Lab, which Vance agreed to do. When they arrived at the lab, McBride introduced Vance to Oswald. 2 A few day s later, on January 31, 1958, the (NOAAA) held a special meeting at Vance's house when the first US satellite was placed in orbit aboard Explorer I, launched from Cape Canaveral, Florida at 9:38 pm (CST).

Ralph Hartwell was vice-president of the NOAAA in 1955, when meetings were held at the Cunningham Observatory, and in 1956 when meetings were held at De La Salle High School. On December 18, 1956 Hartwell joined the Air Force and left New Orleans, but corresponded with members of the NOAAA via voice tape recordings. Hartwell told the FBI that while he was in the Air Force (after December 18. 1956), he heard that Oswald either became a member or had attended meetings of the NOAAA. Hartwell remembered that Palmer McBride and William Wulf, Jr. had dealings with Oswald.3

By early 1958 Palmer McBride had been attending bi-monthly meetings of the NOAAA for three years, most recently at the home of Walter Gehrke, who lived at 208 Hector Avenue in Metairie, Louisiana. McBride told the FBI, "In early 1958 I took Oswald with me to a meeting of the New Orleans Amateur Astronomy Association at the home of Walter Gehrke ..... "4 58-01 When interviewed by the FBI Gehrke confirmed McBride's memory of meeting Oswald in 1958 when he said, "None of the meetings of the NOAAA were held at my house until 1958."5 58-02

Gehrke's statement meant simply that McBride and Harvey Oswald could not have attended a NOAAA meeting at his house any time prior to 1958. James Harrison Vance, Ralph Hartwell, Palmer McBride and Walter Gehrke's statements leave no doubt that Harvey Oswald attended a meeting of the NOAAA in early 1958. In 1998 Palmer McBride renewed his acquaintance with Gehrke, and asked him if he had any records from their NOAAA meetings in the 1950's. Gehrke did not have any records, but still remembered the day when McBride brought Oswald to an association meeting at his (Gehrke's) home in early 1958.  [H&L, pp. 184-185]

McBride told the FBI: “In early 1958 I took OSWALD with me to a meeting of the New Orleans Amateur Astronomy Association at the home of WALTER GEHRKE….”

According to the FBI, Walter Gehrke did not remember Oswald but clearly indicated that “none of the meetings of this group were held a his residence until about 1958,” not 1956, as the FBI wanted us to believe.

 

The evidence is simply overwhelming that one Oswald worked at Pfisterer Dental Lab in late 1957 and 1958 at the same time the other Oswald was in Asia with the USMC.

Edited March 14, 2020 by Jim Hargrove

[David Josephs]

People ain't gonna learn what they don't wanna know Jim....

Always have, always will....  a few come to mind.... 

[David Andrews]

One question might be: is the Harvey Oswald left behind in New Orleans in 1957-1958 already doing low-level intelligence work?  Admittedly, the NOAAA sounds like a small-time, hobbyist organization - but is this Oswald already dangling himself as a Red sympathizer to see if there are any inordinate Sputnik lovers among space program aficionados?  Any dangerous bilateralists in the emerging space race crowd? 

Was there an early COINTEL-type program infiltrating these most peripheral of social and political orgs?  Would that be the FBI putting the scion of Hungarian Communists to work?  Is that how they descended so quickly on the likes of McBride and Gehrke - because no real investigation was necessary if they already had a file on NOAAA?

Was Palmer McBride ever questioned on his 1963 statement that the Oswald he knew wanted to kill President Eisenhower?  Did he stick to that assertion?

Edited March 16, 2020 by David Andrews

[Jim Hargrove]

6 hours ago, David Andrews said:

One question might be: is the Harvey Oswald left behind in New Orleans in 1957-1958 already doing low-level intelligence work?  Admittedly, the NOAAA sounds like a small-time, hobbyist organization - but is this Oswald already dangling himself as a Red sympathizer to see if there are any inordinate Sputnik lovers among space program aficionados?  Any dangerous bilateralists in the emerging space race crowd? 

Was there an early COINTEL-type program infiltrating these most peripheral of social and political orgs?  Would that be the FBI putting the scion of Hungarian Communists to work?  Is that how they descended so quickly on the likes of McBride and Gehrke - because no real investigation was necessary if they already had a file on NOAAA?

Was Palmer McBride ever questioned on his 1963 statement that the Oswald he knew wanted to kill President Eisenhower?  Did he stick to that assertion?

My bet is that in the early to mid 1950s Harvey Oswald was reflecting communist propaganda that he had been exposed to in New York.  This is despite the fact that he allegedly told Aline Mosby, who interviewed him in Moscow “Then we moved to North Dakota and I discovered one book in the library, 'Das Kapital.' .... l read the 'Manifesto' .... .! started to study Marxist economic theories .... .! continued to indoctrinate myself for five years ....”

I think it started (or continued) in NYC, although in the summer of 1953 (when Harvey Oswald and his caretaker “Mom” fled NYC to escape the city court system) he arrived in remote Stanley, North Dakota, where, according to Henry Timmer, he talked about communism and carried around a commie pamphlet.  Like Palmer McBride, Timmer said Oswald expressed interest in killing the president.  

Harvey Oswald also, of course, showed numerous Marines his communist literature.  My thinking about the interest in killing a president is that it may have been overstated by both McBride and Timmer, who both may have made too much after the assassination about adolescent boy braggadocio.  My bet is that Harvey Oswald half-believed some of the communist slogans he was told as a youngster and was eventually turned to right-wingers like Guy Banister by his handlers.

Palmer McBride was completely ignored by the WC and all the other so-called investigations.

[James DiEugenio]

Two questions:

Why did Weberman think this affidavit did not exist?

How  did the FBI find McBride that fast?

Edited March 17, 2020 by James DiEugenio

[David Andrews]

3 hours ago, Jim Hargrove said:

My bet is that in the early to mid 1950s Harvey Oswald was reflecting communist propaganda that he had been exposed to in New York.  This is despite the fact that he allegedly told Aline Mosby, who interviewed him in Moscow “Then we moved to North Dakota and I discovered one book in the library, 'Das Kapital.' .... l read the 'Manifesto' .... .! started to study Marxist economic theories .... .! continued to indoctrinate myself for five years ....”

I think it started (or continued) in NYC, although in the summer of 1953 (when Harvey Oswald and his caretaker “Mom” fled NYC to escape the city court system) he arrived in remote Stanley, North Dakota, where, according to Henry Timmer, he talked about communism and carried around a commie pamphlet.  Like Palmer McBride, Timmer said Oswald expressed interest in killing the president.  

Harvey Oswald also, of course, showed numerous Marines his communist literature.  My thinking about the interest in killing a president is that it may have been overstated by both McBride and Timmer, who both may have made too much after the assassination about adolescent boy braggadocio.  My bet is that Harvey Oswald half-believed some of the communist slogans he was told as a youngster and was eventually turned to right-wingers like Guy Banister by his handlers.

Palmer McBride was completely ignored by the WC and all the other so-called investigations.

Jim - thanks for your answers.  My question on whether Harvey was doing low-level intelligence work in 1958 is based in part on my suspicion that Harvey, the Dallas Oswald, is older than his purported 24 years.  (I've referred to Oswald here before as the best connected 24-year-old in history, barring Alexander the Great - and Alex came from money.)

I appreciate your speculation on Oswald's juvenile motives for wanting to kill Eisenhower, but it would really interest me to know if Palmer McBride ever walked back that story, claimed it was forced on him by the FBI, or flat out denied making the statement.  I understand if you are not able to answer this. 

 

Edited March 17, 2020 by David Andrews

[James DiEugenio]

I regret not visiting Palmer since he lived in the LA area.

I really would have liked to talk to him.

[Jim Hargrove]

12 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

Two questions:

Why did Weberman think this affidavit did not exist?

How  did the FBI find McBride that fast?

Jim - I can't answer the first question, but as for the second....  According to John A., Mr. McBride contacted USAF security officers on the day of the assassination and the Air Force contacted the FBI.

[David Andrews]

OK, good to know McBride approached the authorities first.  Sorry I didn't research the FBI report in the WR exhibits.

[Jim Hargrove]

On 3/16/2020 at 9:17 PM, David Andrews said:

I appreciate your speculation on Oswald's juvenile motives for wanting to kill Eisenhower, but it would really interest me to know if Palmer McBride ever walked back that story, claimed it was forced on him by the FBI, or flat out denied making the statement.  I understand if you are not able to answer this. 

I’m unaware of anything that Mr. McBride revised about his original statements, but the only public interview he ever gave, at least that I’m aware of, was in Dallas in 1997 when John A. brought him to the old JFK Lancer conference.  Mr. McBride answers a few questions in the following YouTube video at around the 2:34:35 mark:

https://youtu.be/GZZTNAIoR70