What "officially" becomes of the Rowley Zfilm?

[David Josephs]

As I've been rereading Horne's work on the "master" film and copies chain of custody - which takes from Wrone and Trask - I keep reading about the impossibility of a 4th copy or 5th film yet repeatedly there is a film missing in the narrative.

Max's note spells out pretty clearly that Zapruder has the "master", Sorrels has 2 copies and "The third print is forwarded"
We also know that Zapruder shows a film on Sunday...  but let's start at the beginning with Doug:

Zapruder departed Kodak’s Dallas Plant at about 9 PM, and turned over two of the three “first day copies” to the Secret Service. One was sent to Washington, D.C.---to Secret Service Headquarters---by Dallas Secret Service agent Max Phillips, who placed it on a commercial flight late Friday night. It arrived in Washington after midnight, and sometime before dawn, on Saturday, 11/23/63. The second “same day copy” relinquished to the Secret Service by Zapruder on Friday night was loaned by the Secret Service to the FBI in Dallas the next day, on Saturday; and then flown by the Dallas office of the FBI to FBI headquarters, in Washington, on Saturday evening

Yet in Max's note Sorrels KEEPS 2 copies and a 3rd is forwarded...  all the while Zapruder has the "master" and his best copy.  
Is it fair to assume that Zap's "best copy" is counted as one of Sorrels' copies ?
Is it further fair to assume that Sorrels relinquishes his only copy to the FBI while asking Zapruder to send a copy to DC?

And then there is the evidence from Erwin Swartz, Zap's partner who, with Zapruder, basically remove Max Phillips from the equation.

If Zapruder has "the best copy" and the original until Monday, and a copy is given to Phillips to send to Rowley with his hand-written note (surely Zap didn't write the note, nor does it appear he or Sorrels gave Phillips a copy to send but they Zap and/or his partner Erwin were to do it)  and another copy is retained by Sorrels and given to the FBI on Ervay (Kelley) on Sat morning... there appears to be another copy:

MASTER - Zap
Best original - Zap
Philips to Rowley - 8mm copy (the SS would only get a 2nd best or worse copy of the "master" - ?)
Sorrels is given 2 copies - 1 is supposedly given back to Zapruder to send to DC on an Army transport, and 1 is retained and given to FBI SA Kelley the next morning... except that's not what the subsequent evidence shows

Mr. LIEBELER - Now, Mr. Zapruder, after you had the film developed I understand Mr. Sorrels from the Secret Service came over and helped you get the films developed and you gave two copies of your films to Mr. Sorrels, is that correct?
Mr. ZAPRUDER - Yes. One we have sent to Washington the same night and one went over for the viewers of the FBI on Ervay Street.
Mr. LIEBELER - That's the Secret Service?
Mr. ZAPRUDER - The Secret Service--I brought one roll there and they told me to dispatch it by Army plane or I don't know what they had done with it but it was supposed to have gone to Washington and one of them, I believe, remained here with Mr. Sorrels. He came to my office quite a few times to show them to different people.
Mr. LIEBELER - Now, I understand that you, yourself, retained the original film?
Mr. ZAPRUDER - No; I don't have that at all--I don't have any at all. They were sold to Time and Life magazines.  

The following is an internal FBI memo from Brennan to Sullivan a year later telling us that the FBI had a copy of Zapruder's film BEFORE Zapruder meets with LIFE Saturday morning.  The way Zapruder speaks here is appears that Sorrels brings a copy of the film with him on Saturday to show people, YET Zapruder shows Stolley his "best-copy" before anyone arrives on Saturday morning.

Zapruder has 2 films (master & best copy), Sorrels has 2 films (one that goes to the FBI and one he shows Saturday at Zapruder's office & keeps) with "The third print is forwarded" per Max Phillips.  

Sorrels cannot show a film he does not have, Phillips cannot send a film he was not given, Kelley could not get a film Saturday from Sorrels if Sorrels doesn't have one, and the CIA claims the FBI had a film friday night - since Zapruder is showing a film and talking with Stolley Saturday morning.  Yet this makes little sense at all:

Abraham Zapruder met with Secret Service officials and Mr. Stolley of LIFE in his office on Saturday morning, 11/23/63, and projected the original film for them on his 8 mm projector.9   9 Trask, 2005, p. 127-131; and Wrone, 2003, p. 32-35

1st - the original was a 16mm film and only Rollie Zavada concluded it was split  Both Dino at NPIC and Max Phillips discuss 8mm films.  Only Homer talks about working on a 16mm unslit original which in turn created the briefing boards that match the extent film.

2nd - does it make any sense at all for Zapruder to risk damaging the original by showing it when Sorrels and he supposedly have 8mm copies to watch?

Doug also talks about how impossible it is for LIFE to see a film on Sunday...  yet Doug, like everyone else in the mix has never addressed the elephant in the room...

What happened to Rowley's 8mm film, in DC by midnight the 22nd?  This would be the first and ONLY version of the film shown to people in DC who could have actually implemented the alteration..  There is literally nothing on what becomes of that film once it is delivered to Rowley - ANYONE ???.

Furthermore there is the issue of Jaggers whose offices are equidistant from Dealey plaza and Ervay..  Additionally, Erwin Swartz claims the films did not get to Jamison until 6pm...

Jaggers-Chiles-Stovall was a very sophisticated photographic lab doing sensitive government work with film and photos.  The investigation of what their involvement may have been that day seems like something we ought to have a better handle on...  just sayin'

DJ

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 8, 2017 by David Josephs
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[David Josephs]

There also remains evidence from those at Kodak that day claiming repeatedly that Zapruder was only given 2 rolls of "Type A" film or Kodachrome IIA which was indoor film versus the non type A which was outdoor film.

Regardless - a timeline of the Rowley film would be appreciated if anyone has info....

 

 

Edited March 8, 2017 by David Josephs

[David Josephs]

This is a bit strange...

Cannot find which flight either Phillips, Zapruder or Swartz put the film on for Rowley
Wrone states it is not until just before dawn Saturday that this film arrives - it's only 2.5 hours from Dallas to DC...  why does it take 6 more hours?

Did a car/person meet the plane - who?
The receipt of this film is not noted in anything Rowley or Phillips wrote....

And then somehow it makes its way back to the Zapruder group with the other copies and original?

How?

[Michael Clark]

 

On 2/6/2017 at 5:39 PM, David Josephs said:

1st - the original was a 16mm film and only Rollie Zavada concluded it was split  Both Dino at NPIC and Max Phillips discuss 8mm films.  Only Homer talks about working on a 16mm unslit original which in turn created the briefing boards that match the extent film.

The original was a double-8 film. Not 16mm.

I believe that I read, on this forum, that the original double 8, went to Chicago on the night of the 22. At that time it was split between the A and B sides, duplicated, spliced back together, and then originals, dups, whatever, were forwarded on to Washington and Dallas (possibly one to Rochester?). Part of the story is that it was in Chicago, or Rochester, where a technician dropped it on the floor and damaged it. 

Sorry I don't have the source for you right now.

Anyroads, no one, including the WC should be accepting testimony from Zapruder as to where copies went after the moment he handed them off. That is absurd. He cannot testify to the chain of posession once he hands them off.

 

Cheers, Mike