Is that ... (Gasp) ... Billy Lovelady Talking With Gloria Calvery on the Steps?

[Thomas Graves]

21 minutes ago, Bill Miller said:

Calvery did not say that she and her friends were all shoulder to shoulder. I advise you read the Calvery thread to refresh your memory seeing how you posted no less than five times on the first page of that thread. .

In that thread we found that a black skinned woman was labeled as Calvery - obviously a long standing error someone had made. That Calvery immediately ran back to the TSBD. That a woman seen in the Zapruder film who was standing along Elm Street when JFK was assassinated was dressed like the running woman seen running towards the Shelley and Lovelady looking gentlemen who are walking away from the stairs. That Molinda said that Calvery came into the TSBD about 30 seconds following the shots. Prudhomme mentioned an interesting piece that said Gloria followed the Police Officer up the stairs. Seeing that two independent witnesses (Piper and West) who were inside the building and on the first floor when Truly and Patrolman Baker were seen as the first ones through the door and Molinda saw Calvery also entering the TSBD in the same time frame .... seems that someone like yourself who can see Lovelady in washed out film footage should also be able to see the running woman in Darnell as Gloria Calvery. - especially when there was no dust on the pavement to get kicked up so to leave anyone behind.   

Now about that guy who you said looked to be wearing glasses ... can you not say what you saw that made him appear to be wearing glasses or is that just something you uncontrollably blurted out?

Dear William,

Get real.

Does anyone ever say they were standing "shoulder to shoulder" except, of course, at a Metallica concert?

Regardless, do you really think narrow-waisted "Running Woman" was chunky Gloria Jean Calvery?

--  Tommy

PS  Where do YOU have Reed and Hicks standing during the assassination?  Up Elm Street close to "K," or farther down, you know, "about halfway between Houston and the Triple Underpass," like they said in their FBI reports / statements?

Edited March 2, 2017 by Thomas Graves

[Bill Miller]

7 hours ago, Thomas Graves said:

PS  Or have you "found" William Shelly in Weigman, and you're just playing another of your little time-wasting games?

Yes - time wasting games .....

Graves:   " What does it matter whether or not William Shelley is visible (or identifiable) in Weigman?

Do you think William Shelley might have been upstairs, foolin' around on the sixth floor?  

Do you think William Shelley started walking down Elm Street Extension /  over to the "Island"  before the first shot rang out? "

 

Why it matters if Shelley is seen or not goes to film quality.

[Guest]

Underneath door no. 3

[Bill Miller]

29 minutes ago, Thomas Graves said:

Dear William,

Get real.

Does anyone ever say they were standing "shoulder to shoulder" except, of course, at a Metallica concert?

Regardless, do you really think narrow-waisted "Running Woman" was chunky Gloria Jean Calvery?

I don't say things unless I mean them. Remove the dress suit jacket and put on a form fitting skirt and I come up with this woman ... the only running woman who was out along the curb when JFK was shot. The same woman approaching the two men who look like Shelley and Lovelady who turns towards Billy in passing as if to say something (?)  Note the shirt on the Lovelady looking figure and follow his head right through to the last frame. No mistaken the hairline here when he passes in front of the dark opening seen across the street.

 

Edited March 2, 2017 by Bill Miller

[Thomas Graves]

24 minutes ago, Bill Miller said:

I don't say things unless I mean them. Remove the dress suit jacket and put on a form fitting skirt and I come up with this woman ...

Dear William,

You must be kidding about Running Woman's being chunky Gloria Jean Calvery.  Here she, before she got married, trying to hide her substantial girth behind a tire!  (And why was she wearing that "dress suit jacket" at her wedding?  To hide her embarrassing figure!  LOL)

All the best,

--  Tommy

Edited March 2, 2017 by Thomas Graves

[Bill Miller]

16 minutes ago, Thomas Graves said:

Dear William,

You must be kidding about Running Woman's being chunky Gloria Jean Calvery.  Here she, before she got married, trying to hide her substantial girth behind a tire!  (And why was she wearing that "dress suit jacket" at her wedding?  To hide her embarrassing figure!  LOL)

The foolish hiding behind a tire remark just demonstrates the desperation you have to appear correct. 

[Michael Walton]

I find it very hard to believe  that the woman seen in the tire ad photo is the same one standing on the  curb in the Z film.

She seems pretty stocky in the ad and the Z film version her legs seem quite slim.

[Thomas Graves]

2 hours ago, Bill Miller said:

The foolish hiding behind a tire remark just demonstrates the desperation you have to appear correct. 

LOL

Good one, William.

Check out my new thread on Stella Mae Jacob ("Gloria Calvery"), Gloria Jeanne Holt ("Karan Hicks"), and Sharon Simmons-Nelson ("Carol Reed").

It will put you in a better mood.

--  Tommy  

Edited March 2, 2017 by Thomas Graves

[Bill Miller]

32 minutes ago, Thomas Graves said:

LOL

Good one, William.

Check out my new thread on Stella Mae Jacob ("Gloria Calvery"), Gloria Jeanne Holt ("Karan Hicks"), and Sharon Simmons-Nelson ("Carol Reed").

It will put you in a better mood.

--  Tommy

 

Calvery was native American 'Stella Mae Jacob' - is that what you are now implying because someone suggested that theory?        Please tell me I am reading this wrong.

 

Edited March 2, 2017 by Bill Miller

[Thomas Graves]

31 minutes ago, Bill Miller said:

Calvery was native American 'Stella Mae Jacob' - is that what you are now implying because someone suggested that theory?   

Dear William,

Yep to the first part of the rhetorical question, and Nope to the second.

Truth-be-told, I secretly started admitting to myself several months ago that "Gloria Calvery" looked too dark-complected in the 11/22/63 photos and films to be the real-deal Gloria Little / (Gloria Calvery) in the high school yearbook photos.  You very recently said, yourself, that the woman labeled "Gloria Calvery" in the 11/22/63 photos and films had "black" skin, so apparently you thought she was an African American, not an American Indian, right?

I'm not aware of anyone's having suggested that the person labeled "Gloria Calvery" in the 11/22/63 photos and films was a Native American.  But you know what a lousy "researcher" I am, so I'm probably wrong about that, aren't I.  You're welcome to take credit for it if you want to, William.  And for having noticed that Stella Mae Jacob described herself in her FBI statement as being an "Indian female from Oklahoma" (not India, William), too, if you really really really really want to.  And while you're at it, you might as well claim credit for noticing that one of the two girls Stella Mae Jacob watched the motorcade with, Gloria Jeanne Holt, strongly resembles, especially in her 1963 high school photo, one of the people Thierry Speth's "Gloria Calvery" watched the motorcade with -- Thierry Speth's "Karan Hicks." 

Congratulations oh great photo analyst!

All the best!

--  Tommy

Edited March 2, 2017 by Thomas Graves

[Bill Miller]

7 minutes ago, Thomas Graves said:

Dear William,

Nope.

Truth be told, I secretly started admitting to myself several months ago that "Gloria Calvery" looked too dark-complected in the 11/22/63 photos and films to be the real-deal Gloria Little / (Gloria Calvery) in the high school yearbook photos.  You very recently said, yourself, that the woman labeled "Gloria Calvery" in the 11/22/63 photos and films had "black" skin, so apparently you thought she was an African American, not an American Indian, right?

Calvery was obviously mis-labeled in the 11/22/63 images of women in the Plaza. That shipped sailed some time ago.  Also, I have tried to always refer to the woman mis-labeled as Calvery as having "dark" skin. Can you quote where I said she was "black" skinned?

 

And while on the subject .... you have not added anything to any of this.

Edited March 2, 2017 by Bill Miller

[Thomas Graves]

4 hours ago, Thomas Graves said:

A few hours ago Miller posted this:

"Calvery did not say that she and her friends were all shoulder to shoulder. I advise you read the Calvery thread to refresh your memory seeing how you posted no less than five times on the first page of that thread. In that thread we found that a black skinned woman was labeled as Calvery - obviously a long standing error someone had made. That Calvery immediately ran back to the TSBD. That a woman seen in the Zapruder film who was standing along Elm Street when JFK was assassinated was dressed like the running woman seen running towards the Shelley and Lovelady looking gentlemen who are walking away from the stairs. That Molinda said that Calvery came into the TSBD about 30 seconds following the shots. Prudhomme mentioned an interesting piece that said Gloria followed the Police Officer up the stairs. Seeing that two independent witnesses (Piper and West) who were inside the building and on the first floor when Truly and Patrolman Baker were seen as the first ones through the door and Molinda saw Calvery also entering the TSBD in the same time frame .... seems that someone like yourself who can see Lovelady in washed out film footage should also be able to see the running woman in Darnell as Gloria Calvery. - especially when there was no dust on the pavement to get kicked up so to leave anyone behind."

Bumped for Miller.

And a question for the great photo and film analyst:  Why are you so petty, William?  Aren't you glad to know that I've proved, independently of your "curved eyebrow" and "nose" and "skin color" analysis, that Calvery (and Hicks and Reed) was misidentified a long, long time ago?

Are you envious that you didn't prove it my way, yourself?

--  Tommy

PS  The question remains: Where was the real-deal, light-skinned but chunky Gloria Jean Calvery watching the motorcade from?  "K" and "Running Woman" look much too thin to be her, IMHO.

Edited March 2, 2017 by Thomas Graves

[Bill Miller]

1 hour ago, Thomas Graves said:

Bumped for Miller.

And a question for the great photo and film analyst:  Why are you so petty, William?  Aren't you glad to know that I've proved, independently of your "curved eyebrow" and "nose" and "skin color" analysis, that Calvery (and Hicks and Reed) was misidentified a long, long time ago?

Are you envious that you didn't prove it my way, yourself?

--  Tommy

PS  The question remains: Where was the real-deal, light-skinned but chunky Gloria Jean Calvery watching the motorcade from?  "K" and "Running Woman" look much too thin to be her, IMHO.

Thanks for proving something that was proven to most everyone some time ago.

I think if you are going to call  Calvery "Chunky", then you should address the type of clothing she is wearing in the wedding photo along with her build compared to her thin looking husband standing next to her.

Then you can compare the lady at the curb in Zapruder's film with Brandt's buddy for a width/girth comparison. They seem mighty close to me just like Calvery is to her husband. Perhaps if someone blurred the image to Darnell quality, then you could better make a determination.   

So far I am finding references to a black skirt in the Calvery thread, but I did find a response to you from the woman (Linda) who did the Calvery orbit. 

Linda:  Now...at the same time we can see Lovelady and Shelley trotting down the Elm Extension together. (To me in the clear anim. gif of them - i think Gerda made, didn't she? - those 2 are definitely Shelley and Lovelady. The hair, the build, dress etc... looks like them - and "Shelley" has on a black suit jacket it appears

I guess at that  time you had not told her that Washout Man is now Lovelady and the guy in the Hughes film with a Lovelady hairline was wearing glasses.   

 

Edited March 2, 2017 by Bill Miller

[Robert Prudhomme]

On 02/03/2017 at 3:51 AM, Bill Miller said:

Calvery did not say that she and her friends were all shoulder to shoulder. I advise you read the Calvery thread to refresh your memory seeing how you posted no less than five times on the first page of that thread. The wedding photo of Calvery has her wearing a dress suit and she has been referenced as chunky which I am not certain why because she is no bigger than he very slender looking husband in the same wedding photo. Perhaps its her frontal view showing her hips? The woman seen in the light top and black skirt like running woman wore could have had the same said about her. The thing is we only see running woman in profile and at 59 years of age I have seen countless women who were curvy from side to side who were thin from back to front.

In that thread we found that a black skinned woman was labeled as Calvery - obviously a long standing error someone had made. That Calvery immediately ran back to the TSBD. That a woman seen in the Zapruder film who was standing along Elm Street when JFK was assassinated was dressed like the running woman seen running towards the Shelley and Lovelady looking gentlemen who are walking away from the stairs. That Molinda said that Calvery came into the TSBD about 30 seconds following the shots. Prudhomme mentioned an interesting piece that said Gloria followed the Police Officer up the stairs. Seeing that two independent witnesses (Piper and West) who were inside the building and on the first floor when Truly and Patrolman Baker were seen as the first ones through the door and Molinda saw Calvery also entering the TSBD in the same time frame .... seems that someone like yourself who can see Lovelady in washed out film footage should also be able to see the running woman in Darnell as Gloria Calvery. - especially when there was no dust on the pavement to get kicked up so to leave anyone behind.   

Now about that guy who you said looked to be wearing glasses ... can you not say what you saw that made him appear to be wearing glasses or is that just something you uncontrollably blurted out?

Good morning Mr. Miller

Let's see now, where to begin?

1. "That Molinda said that Calvery came into the TSBD about 30 seconds following the shots."

His name is actually Molina not "Molinda" but that is the least of your mistakes, of which this post is literally loaded. Here is an excerpt from Molina's Warren Commission testimony, and it is the only place in his testimony in which Gloria Calvery is discussed:

" Mr. BALL. Do you know a girl named Gloria Calvary? 
Mr. MOLINA. Yes. 
Mr. BALL. Did Gloria come up? 
Ms.. MOLINA. Yes, she came. I was in the lobby standing there and she came in with this other girl. 
Mr. BALL. What did she say? 
Mr. MOLINA. She said "Oh, my God, Joe, he's been shot." They were both horrified. I said "Are you sure he was shot?" She said "Oh, Joe ,I'm sure. I saw his hair fly up and I'm sure he was shot" something to that extent."

Would you be so good, Mr. Miller, as to indicate where Molina stated that Calvery entered the TSBD "about 30 seconds following the shots"?

2. "Prudhomme mentioned an interesting piece that said Gloria followed the Police Officer up the stairs."

First off, my name is Bob to my friends, and Robert if you do not know me. You are certainly not a friend.

Would you be so good as to post where I mentioned "an interesting piece that said Gloria followed the Police Officer up the stairs"? I'm getting a bit older and I don't seem to recall posting such a thing here.

In any event, Gloria Calvery never EVER stated, in testimony or an affidavit, that she followed Baker (or The Police Officer) up the stairs of the TSBD. She never testified before the Warren Commission, and the only statement she gave about the assassination was to the FBI on March 19, 1964.

3. "That Calvery immediately ran back to the TSBD." 

REALLY?? Once again, Mr. Miller, would you be so good as to post evidence to support this statement?

I find it rather strange that someone who knows so little about the case should be arguing his points so vociferously.

[Robin Unger]

In the Calvery FBI 1964 Testimony she stated that after the assassination, she went back to her office, waited there for a while, then went back outside and stood out front for about 3-4 minutes, then went back inside to her office.

She then said that she left the building at 1:30PM and went home.