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Another look at the back wound.


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29 minutes ago, George Sawtelle said:

I believe the first shot caused the back wound. It occurred at or about Z-158 based on the blur analysis of Alvarez, Hartmann and Scott. It was loud enough to startle Zapruder.

People in the parade thought the first shot sounded like a firecracker or backfire. The acoustical experts said it only registered 4 echos and therefore based on their criteria it was not a rifle shot.

However I believe it was a rifle shot except that it was attenuated. The assassin used home made ammunition which is difficult to trace back to the assassin. Since the ammo was faulty the bullet did not travel 2200 ft/sec., more than likely much less than 2200 ft/sec.

George, you previously said, I believe (please correct me if I am wrong. I will try to find your post for a quote from you), that you thought the back wound bullet (first bullet) was tumbling. It could not, I believe, have maintained such a velocity if it was tumbling. I don't believe that faulty propellant could account for a tumbling action.

*****edit. Nothing that I posted above is necessarily in direct contradiction of the point you have made, Mr. Sawtelle.

Cheers,

Mchael

Edited by Michael Clark
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Robert

I don´t know how fast the bullet was traveling but I´m sure it wasn´t traveling 2200 ft/sec. Had it been traveling 2200 ft/sec there would have been much more damage to JFK´s body. And of course it would have showed the necessary amount of peaks on the oscilloscope, i.e., the muzzle blast would be as loud as necessary to create enough peaks (echos). Plus air and wind resistance will effect the velocity of the bullet. I would say air resistance alone will slow down the bullet maybe 100 ft/sec.

I doubt the shooter knew the round was faulty before he used it. Afterward, I´m sure he knew.

The round was weakened probably due to packing of the powder. As a result, the sound was attenuated and it´s effect lessened.

Rifles are zeroed in to make sure the rifle sight can be used. If the sight is not zeroed the bullet will not hit the spot where the shooter aims with the sight. Rifles are not normally sited for rounds. I´m sure the rifles used in the assassination of JFK were zeroed in. These guys were not amateurs.

Of course it´s necessary to have a suspect and then try to trace the ammunition. But if you don´t have a suspect I would say it is very difficult to trace the ammo. If the round is home made it would be very difficult to trace the bullet back to the shooter even if you have a suspect.

Edited by George Sawtelle
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Bob, I'm not doubting your hunting experience, nor the fact that I'm sure you've seen some very interesting shooting results. I'm simply stating that you never know how the human body or object will react to a bullet shot.

George, we have to give the planners credit for keeping the kill zone very tight. Frame 158 is way too early - they would have had to have known that no shots from the fake 6th floor sniper's nest would have been blocked by the large oak tree. Josh Thompson, and I've always agreed with him, states that the very first shot to hit is right after Kennedy appears from behind the sign.  I believe the first shot was the throat shot and then immediately afterward is the back shot.  You can see this in the Z film when Kennedy lurches forward from the impact of the back shot slamming into him - he reaches up, then his head bobs back and forward from this back shot.

They had to have known all of this and didn't start shooting until as stated above but not before that.

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Michael

I would agree with you because the logic of what you say seems to me to be right on.

However we are dealing with the Zap film that w/o a doubt has been altered. So we must use other forensic evidence along with the Zap film to make sure we don´t only rely on evidence that is obviously tainted.

I like the blur analysis by Alvarez, Hartmenn and Scott and the acoustics investigation by BBN to back up the Zap film.

I believe two areas of the ZAP film that are obviously lacking in credibility are Z frames  Z-135 to Z-173 and Z-208 to Z212. BTW, these frames were not included in the Zap film that LIFE gave to the WC to do their report. No one knows why they weren´t turned over to the WC but it seems the WC didn´t complain. All they had to do is go to the CIA and ask for their copy but apparently they didn´t.

I believe I know why the above mentioned frames are missing. They show evidence of shots, two shots, before the limo goes behind the freeway sign. These frames had to be covered up because Oswald??? couldn´t have fired these shots from his location. Thus the WC never saw the filmed evidence of the first two shots.

Edited by George Sawtelle
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George, here's a video I made a while back on another topic but it mentions the head bobbing.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B7Hr9Lrku-Cxa3NqTEpScWNQZnc

Note too before Kennedy disappears behind the sign, nothing is happening.  The ladies over on the right yelled out to him (this was mentioned in witness statements) and he hurried to look and then wave there before disappearing. Here's an animated GIF of it too:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B7Hr9Lrku-CxMW9DWWg0RllUUjQ

This photo comparison earlier in the parade comparing it with Z225 shows his position right before the throat shot hits:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B7Hr9Lrku-CxYXR5WWxkZ05QRkU

I'm going to disagree with you on the Z film alteration but don't want to get into it.  Instead, you may want to look up the thread Swan Song (which I nicknamed The 67% Solution).  There at the end you'll see my thoughts on the Z film.

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Michael

Researchers are still finding evidence of alteration. People standing along the parade route are in one film and not the other.

There were two loud sounds similiar to rifle shots in the parade route before the limo reached the freeway sign.

What is the answer for these sounds? The WC and it´s experts ignored them with some weird reasoning (Shaneyfelt). I think you are content to ignore them also. However they can´t be ignored.

 

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George - did you carefully read John's posts on that thread?  He's actually bringing in the theory of "separate realities" like the Ed Dick novel.  I mean, really?  You said up above that some of my posts are "spot on" with reality and that would hold true IF the films were real. 

So here were my conclusions from another post on the alteration of the film Z film, which was not altered.  If you or anyone cannot conclusively prove alteration based on the questions below, then it wasn't altered:

rebuttal.jpg

rebutta2.jpg

But don't take my word for it.  Here's the Zavada report proving no film alteration:

http://www.jfk-info.com/zreport.htm

Edited by Michael Walton
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Michael

The bullet that JFK in the back tumbled and entered backwards.

The bullet did not follow a straight trajectory. It dropped gradually on it´s way into JFK´s back.

As it dropped air pressure against the point of the bullet was greater at the top of the point than at the bottom. This caused the bullet to move downward within the trajectory and it tumbled.

As an example, say you move a pencil with your right hand in a straight, horizontal line with the pencil parallel to the floor. With your left hand place your index finger at the top of the pencil point and press downward. The pencil begins to rotate. This is exactly what happened to the bullet that hit JFK´s back.

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George, so you're saying that out of the thousands, nay millions, of rounds of ammunition fired throughout history, and as the JFK back bullet was coming out of wherever the gun was located, and because all gun barrels are rifled to create a spin as the bullet comes out, you're saying that this particular bullet came out and started tumbling end over end through the air where it hits JFK's upper back, and the bullet's point of contact as it hit was the ass-end of the bullet.

Is that what you're saying?

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Michael W

I believe it tumbled as it neared JFK´s body, not as it left the barrel.

The bullet traveled in a arc trajectory. I assume the shooter was aiming for JFK´s head but the bullet dropped about 8 inches. I believe the shooter was located in the Dal Tex bldg, 3rd floor, which would place him less than 200 ft from the limo. Bullets that travel at muzzle velocity may drop an inch in a 1000 ft.

As the bullet left the barrel it began to point downward sleightly as it arched toward the target. Before it reached it´s target larger air pressure at the top of the bullet  than at the bottom forced the bullet to dip. The ass end of the bullet moved upward as the bullet dipped.This action contributed to the tumble.

 

 

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37 minutes ago, George Sawtelle said:

Michael W

I believe it tumbled as it neared JFK´s body, not as it left the barrel.

The bullet traveled in a arc trajectory. I assume the shooter was aiming for JFK´s head but the bullet dropped about 8 inches. I believe the shooter was located in the Dal Tex bldg, 3rd floor, which would place him less than 200 ft from the limo. Bullets that travel at muzzle velocity may drop an inch in a 1000 ft.

As the bullet left the barrel it began to point downward sleightly as it arched toward the target. Before it reached it´s target larger air pressure at the top of the bullet  than at the bottom forced the bullet to dip. The ass end of the bullet moved upward as the bullet dipped.This action contributed to the tumble.

 

 

A Dal-Tex shot explains a lot for me. It makes the dual wounding of JFK and JC more plausible. It explains why I see JFK and JC react simultaneously; but it does not, and nothing will, for me, explain a pristine bullet.

Of course this leaves other questions. I don't believe in a throat exit wound. So a bullet entering JFK and wounding JC would have to exit JFK's chest, for which there is no evidence.

Since everything is on the table, in my fluid CT, I have to consider that all kinds of things were swapped and manufactured. So, I consider an exit wound through JFK, exiting near the nipple, and barely penetrating JC, and the related evidence being swapped and injuries being manufactured on JC. The leg wound on JC may have been intentional i(another GK shooter) n order to disable him from making efforts to save JFK.

I am new to all of this but I have realized that there is almost nothing I can accept at face value from the official story, the Z film, or the "evidence".

I also am considering Ashton Grays "no neck wound" theory.

Cheers,

Michael

Edited by Michael Clark
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Michael C

There was only one shot from the 3rd floor Dal Tex bldg. The bullet hit JFK about 6 inches down from the right shoulder. It penetrated about 1.5 inches into his back. It entered rear end first. It hit the rear rib cage and remained there until doctors or nurses dislodged it during resusitation efforts.

JFK and Connally were not hit by the same bullet. The SBT is hogwash. 

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