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Were TSBD employees Jacob, Holt, and Simmons misidentified as Calvery, Hicks, and Reed?


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On 3/2/2017 at 11:06 AM, Sandy Larsen said:

Just to summarize, here are the three woman said to be standing on the south side of Elm:

  • Stella Mae Jacob       (Native American)
  • Gloria Jeanne Holt     (blond)
  • Sharon (Simmons) Nelson

Sharon Nelson said she was "standing on the sidewalk on Elm Street about midway between the TSBD building and the underpass." This places her and her friends in the same location as the woman marked as Calvery, Hicks, and Reed.

It's looking to me like you've identified the real names of the three woman, Thomas.

Calvery, Hicks, and Reed are really Jacob, Holt, and Nelson, respectively. Or so it seems.

(Note: Testimony indicates a few other woman were standing with these three. So I/Thomas might be misidentifying the woman labeled as Reed.)

 

darnell-and-zapruder-films-women-in-them

 

Sandy,

"Or so it seems" ??

I'm Laughing Out Loud, Comrade!

--  TG

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2 hours ago, Robin Unger said:

Living history with Karen Westbrook

 

 

Karen_Westbrook_2.jpg

 

 

Robin,

Sandy and I are already well aware of Westbrook's major boo-boos in that interview, as well as Thierry Speth's, Don Roberdeau's, and YOURS regarding your collective misidentification of Jacob, Holt, and Simmons, respectively, as "Calvary, Hicks, and Reed" in the Z-Film back in the day.

 

Are you aware that Roberdeau FINALLY got it right about Jacob, Holt, and Simmons on his revised map?

 

 

My God, haven't you been following our posts on the subject matter, Robin?

 

--  TG 

 

Edited by Thomas Graves
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He probably has, but just doesn't buy the crap you two are obliterating this forum with.

Just because you post it a million times doesn't make it true.

it is Calvery and not Holt.

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5 minutes ago, Bart Kamp said:

He probably has, but just doesn't buy the crap you two are obliterating this forum with.

Just because you post it a million times doesn't make it true.

it is Calvery and not Holt.

Bart,

Why has Don Roberdeau (correctly) labeled those three women as Jacob, Holt, and Simmons in his revised map?

And why have you at least (correctly) identified the brown-coat-wearing woman in Cabluck as Stella Mae Jacob? 

(Sarcasm: Was that a mistake on your part?)

--  TG

 

Edited by Thomas Graves
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16 minutes ago, Sandy Larsen said:

 

Bart,

The woman you say is Gloria Calvery has light-colored hair, almost blond. Gloria Calvery has dark hair. You can't see that?

 

 

Sandy,

I suspect that Calvery had dark red hair and that Holt had light red hair.

Either that, or Westbrook's memory is really, really bad.

 

--  TG

BTW, Brian Doyle told me by FM Messenger today that Mr. Calvery mentioned on the phone that his mother had told him that she was wearing a headscarf that day.

 

Edited by Thomas Graves
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How big of a denier are you Sandy?

First Shelley and Lovelady, then Calvery, then the teeth and now this?

A pattern is emerging man!

 

Westbrook stated she had red hair, ah of course she was wrong and you are 100% right....I get it.

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50 minutes ago, Sandy Larsen said:

 

Bart,

The woman you say is Gloria Calvery has light-colored hair, almost blond. Gloria Calvery has dark hair. You can't see that?

 

Gloria-Calvery-and-Karen-Westbrook-in-Za

 

You can't see that?

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Gloria-Calvery-and-Karen-Westbrook-in-Za

normal_DARNELL80a.jpg

 

 

Bart,

Gloria (nee Little) Calvery did not have that shade of hair. She had dark hair. AND she always wore those glasses:

 

Gloria_Jean_Little_2face_examination.jpg

149407954_1437197023.jpg

58625e7d5a4cb_Calveryfacialexamination1.

Gloria_Jean_Little_6.jpg

 

 

You've done a lot of great 2nd floor encounter work. But you are definitely wrong about this.

 

Edited by Sandy Larsen
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Stop mixing Jacob with Calvery.

And stop using that multi generational copy of the newspaper article, from a hair colour p.o.v. it serves no pruposes.

Westbrook said she had red hair.

 

But no 'we' don't believe that do we.......your little pet theory like the ones before would fall apart.

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Tommy,

If we were to do a study on Gloria Calvery's height, I'm pretty sure that Bart's Calvery would be far shorter than the real Calvery. Just look at the height of our Calvery in the Z-frame.

Gloria's husband was 6 ft. tall according to their son. That would make Gloria 5' 8" to 5' 9" tall. Or 5' 7" to 5' 8" tall in low heels.

149407954_1437197023.jpg

 

Look at how tall our Gloria is... tallest woman there. 5 ' 8" seems about right.

 

348hfle.gif

 

Now look how tall Bart's Gloria is:

 

DARNELL80a.jpg.7404efa09d28549ec8fa02232

 

Wow, look how tall Bart's Westbrook is! She must be close to 6 ft herself if that is Bart's Gloria standing next to her.

 

(Gee, I wonder why Bart's Gloria isn't wearing those glasses she ALWAYS wears.)

 

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4 hours ago, Sandy Larsen said:

Tommy,

If we were to do a study on Gloria Calvery's height, I'm pretty sure that Bart's Calvery would be far shorter than the real Calvery. Just look at the height of our Calvery in the Z-frame.

Gloria's husband was 6 ft. tall according to their son. That would make Gloria 5' 8" to 5' 9" tall. Or 5' 7" to 5' 8" tall in low heels.

149407954_1437197023.jpg

 

Look at how tall our Gloria is... tallest woman there. 5 ' 8" seems about right.

 

348hfle.gif

 

Now look how tall Bart's Gloria is:

 

DARNELL80a.jpg.7404efa09d28549ec8fa02232

 

Wow, look how tall Bart's Westbrook is! She must be close to 6 ft herself if that is Bart's Gloria standing next to her.

 

(Gee, I wonder why Bart's Gloria isn't wearing those glasses she ALWAYS wears.)

 

 

Sandy,

Being fair-minded but ignorant and lazy, I gotta ask this question: were they walking on a level sidewalk there, or on the slight slope that comprises the right side of the Grassy Knoll near the curb?

--  TG

 

Edited by Thomas Graves
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Karen Westbrook identified two bystanders.

She identified herself as the woman wearing the blue scarf.

and she also identified the red headed woman standing next to her as Gloria Calvery.

 

 

digitalcollections12.jpg

 

Mr. SHELLEY - Gloria Calvary from South-Western Publishing Co. ran back up there crying and said "The President has been shot" and Billy Lovelady and myself took off across the street to that little, old island and we stopped there for a minute.

DARNELL80.jpg

Edited by Robin Unger
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