Max Holland and Donald Carpenter vs Garrison and the ARRB

[James DiEugenio]

Max Holland never quits.  Does he.  Now he tries to turn back the clock to 1969 on the Garrison inquiry.  Like the ARRB never existed.  Shameless.

https://kennedysandking.com/john-f-kennedy-articles/max-holland-and-donald-carpenter-vs-jim-garrison-and-the-arrb

[James DiEugenio]

One of the questions I was trying to pose here is this:  Who is Max Holland and where did he come from?

I could find very little on him from before 1994, when he descended on the critical community with his endorsement of Posner and his blasting of Scott in Wilson Quarterly.

All I could find out about him was that he went to Antioch College and he wrote e book called When the Machine Stopped. This last raises some interesting questions.  Because from the reviews I read its actually a pretty interesting book.  Through the story of one machine tool company, he tells  about the beginning of the end of industrial America.  The company his dad worked for for 29 years was first bought by a conglomerate and then purchased by KKR in an LBO--a la Mike Milliken,  And Holland was critical of what those buyouts did to the company and how it caused it to be sold off in pieces as part of a break up. The company then disappeared.

I found this doubly interesting because this was made possible first by Carter's deregulation and then the rapacious greed culture  brought on by Reagan. Milliken was not indicted until 1989, only after they turned Boesky.  

As Donald Gibson shows, if you compare Kennedy's economic policy to this, you will see that JFK wanted to do all he could to increase productivity, expand employment, and prevent globalization.  In other words, under Kennedy, Holland's dad would  likely have kept his job.  I guess Holland never read GIbson's excellent book Battling Wall Street which explains all this.

Maybe because Gibson thinks JFK was killed by a conspiracy?

 

Anyway has anyone here done any work on Holland, or knows someone who has?

[Micah Mileto]

Max Holland staged his demonstration of the SBT. They rolled the limo down the street far away from z190-224, and isn't It's pretty much proven that the laser beam was coming from the surveying transit they had set up to make the show look "sciencey"?

[Pat Speer]

I'm not sure if anyone's done any deep digging into Holland's background, Jim, beyond that Holland's written articles for the CIA.

 

I know you know about this look at Holland: https://kennedysandking.com/john-f-kennedy-articles/max-holland-rescues-the-warren-commission-and-the-nation

And I think I told you about this one: http://www.patspeer.com/chapter-9c-mr-holland-s-colossal-blunder

My take on Max is that he's a conservative historian, not all that different from a number of other inside-the-beltway insiders...who desperately wants to believe it was Oswald all by his lonesome.

[James DiEugenio]

Thanks to both of you.

And those are good observations.  But I would sure like to find out about Holland's educational and occupational background.

Because the guy now looks like he is replacing McAdams as the go to source for pure camouflage, e.g. Alexandra Zapruder.

I mean anyone who could have hosted Carpenter is rivaling McAdams.

[James DiEugenio]

The reliable Tom Scully comes through again on Holland:

http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg Subject Index Files/H Disk/Holland Max/Item 01.pdf

 

Should have known Weisberg would dig it up.

Edited March 31, 2017 by James DiEugenio

[W. Tracy Parnell]

3 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

The reliable Tom Scully comes through again on Holland:

http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg Subject Index Files/H Disk/Holland Max/Item 01.pdf

 

Should have known Weisberg would dig it up.

OK, now you have some background on Holland. Not sure what this is supposed to prove.

[James DiEugenio]

Not supposed to prove anything.

But I wanted to find out the academic credentials of someone who would host an article as bad as Carpenter's, and make a film as bad as The Lost Bullet.

The digging about McAdams eventually paid off.  Pat found out he ran CIA recruitment ads on his radio music show.  And he was just honored by the CPAC for hounding a young graduate assistant out of Marquette to restart her PH D program all over since she feared for her physical and mental health due to McAdams' campaign against her.

What we have on Holland is only superficial.  But now we have a baseline. .So let us keep on scratching.

 

[Ray Mitcham]

Holland was the Washington  representative on the Middle East friends of America Committee. 

Quote"Historians R.M. Miller, Hugh Wilford, and others have argued that from its early years, AFME was a part of an Arabist propaganda effort within the U.S. "secretly funded and to some extent managed" by the C.I.A., with further funding from the oil consortium, ARAMCO.

He was also a writer for the Voice of America.

So a completely independent voice, it seems.

[W. Tracy Parnell]

9 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

Not supposed to prove anything.

But I wanted to find out the academic credentials of someone who would host an article as bad as Carpenter's, and make a film as bad as The Lost Bullet.

The digging about McAdams eventually paid off.  Pat found out he ran CIA recruitment ads on his radio music show.  And he was just honored by the CPAC for hounding a young graduate assistant out of Marquette to restart her PH D program all over since she feared for her physical and mental health due to McAdams' campaign against her.

What we have on Holland is only superficial.  But now we have a baseline. .So let us keep on scratching.

 

So it is your contention that anyone who doesn't believe in conspiracy has to be CIA? I can assure you I am not, I am a retired private citizen acting independently.

[Thomas Graves]

3 minutes ago, W. Tracy Parnell said:

So it is your contention that anyone who doesn't believe in conspiracy has to be CIA? I can assure you I am not, I am a retired private citizen acting independently.

Tracy,

That's the "vibe" I've gotten from "Deep State" James over the years.

--  Tommy

[W. Tracy Parnell]

Just now, Thomas Graves said:

Tracy,

That's the "vibe" I've gotten from "Deep State" James over the years.

--  Tommy

He's not the first one I have gotten that vibe from believe me.

[James DiEugenio]

Nice work Ray.

BTW, has anyone who ever promoted the "Oswald did it" line ever turned out to have intel ties?

Let me think, well there was one Ed Epstein who penned his book Legend  with the help of a guy named Jim Angleton. 

Then there was a guy named Hugh Aynesworth  who denied he had any connections with the intel community at all.  And it turned out he was working as an informant with the Bureau and the CIA for years.

And there was Jim Phelan who always denied he had any government or FBI ties, and he ended up begin exposed as a xxxx by the ARRB  also.

And then there is Priscilla Johnson who--well that it too long a story and there have been many threads here about her.

So I guess, once again, Tracy and Tommy Baby don't read many documents do they? Which anyone can tell by reading their posts.

 

Edited April 1, 2017 by James DiEugenio

[W. Tracy Parnell]

26 minutes ago, James DiEugenio said:

Nice work Ray.

BTW, has anyone who ever promoted the "Oswald did it" line ever turned out to have intel ties?

Let me think, well there was one Ed Epstein who penned his book Legend  with the help of a guy named Jim Angleton. 

Then there was a guy named Hugh Aynesworth  who denied he had any connections with the intel community at all.  And it turned out he was working as an informant with the Bureau and the CIA for years.

And there was Jim Phelan who always denied he had any government or FBI ties, and he ended up begin exposed as a xxxx by the ARRB  also.

And then there is Priscilla Johnson who--well that it too long a story and there have been many threads here about her.

So I guess, once again, Tracy and Tommy Baby don't read many documents do they? Which anyone can tell by reading their posts.

 

 

Jim, you are wrong again. I certainly am aware of the connections of Aynesworth and Phelan. They could hardly be expected to admit those connections, that would defeat the purpose.  As for PJM, I would say that there is no proof of anything sinister. She applied for a CIA job but was turned down. She certainly worked with people like Snyder and McVickar and shared information with them. Snyder was CIA for a time, I don’t remember if McVickar was. But so what? At the time helping the FBI or CIA was considered a patriotic thing to do. And the fact that Epstein interviewed Angleton is meaningless. He was writing a book so that is not surprising.

But the implication here, which apparently has extended even to some conspiracy theorists, is that if you believe LHO was guilty or you do not support certain CIA-did-it theories, you must be connected to the agency. And I would like to see one person here prove I have anything to do with the CIA.

 

[Thomas Graves]

1 hour ago, James DiEugenio said:

Nice work Ray.

BTW, has anyone who ever promoted the "Oswald did it" line ever turned out to have intel ties?

Let me think, well there was one Ed Epstein who penned his book Legend  with the help of a guy named Jim Angleton. 

Then there was a guy named Hugh Aynesworth  who denied he had any connections with the intel community at all.  And it turned out he was working as an informant with the Bureau and the CIA for years.

And there was Jim Phelan who always denied he had any government or FBI ties, and he ended up begin exposed as a xxxx by the ARRB  also.

And then there is Priscilla Johnson who--well that it too long a story and there have been many threads here about her.

So I guess, once again, Tracy and Tommy Baby don't read many documents do they? Which anyone can tell by reading their posts.

 

Nice insults, there, "Deep State" James.

Therefore, using your "logic" and tendency to generalize, everyone who disagrees with you (even if they're a CTer, like me), must be CIA, right?

I mean  I mean  I mean  I mean.

--  Tommy

Edited April 1, 2017 by Thomas Graves