Does Lifton's Best Evidence indicate that the coverup and the crime were committed by the same people?

[James DiEugenio]

1 hour ago, Ron Ecker said:

Oswald was supposed to be one of the shooters, therefore the sniper's nest was faked, since Oswald was actually somewhere drinking a Coke.

They didn't invade Cuba because it was decided not to blame it on Cuba, they had to blame it on Oswald after he got taken alive, therefore becoming the one and only shooter.

 

What on earth is the evidence that Oswald was going to be  one of the shooters?

Why would he be completely absent, not even close to the sixth floor if that were the case?  

How could the plotters he so stupid as to employ someone who could not his the side of a barn? And why would Oswald consent to do so if he liked JFK, which he did?  And why would he have informed on the Chicago plot, which there is evidence he did, and likely on this one, which there is evidence he did?

Oswald was in many ways a tragic character.  Not an assassin.

 

Further, the evidence does not say that the DPD planted the rifle or the shells,.  The evidence says they were there already. I other words the plotters left them behind, and then most of them escaped down the passenger elevator I think.  One went down the stairs, and that is the guy Baker saw.

Edited April 6, 2017 by James DiEugenio

[Paul Trejo]

9 minutes ago, James DiEugenio said:

What on earth is the evidence that Oswald was going to be  one of the shooters?

Why would he be completely absent, not even close to the sixth floor if that were the case?  

How could the plotters he so stupid as to employ someone who could not his the side of a barn? And why would Oswald consent to do so if he liked JFK, which he did?  And why would he have informed on the Chicago plot, which there is evidence he did, and likely on this one, which there is evidence he did?

Oswald was in many ways a tragic character.  Not an assassin.

Here is one of the rare instances that I find myself in agreement with James Di Eugenio.

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

[Ron Ecker]

4 minutes ago, James DiEugenio said:

 

4 minutes ago, James DiEugenio said:

What on earth is the evidence that Oswald was going to be  one of the shooters?

 

What? Have you suddenly decided that Oswald was not a patsy in the assassination?

He was a patsy, not knowingly a shooter as far as I know.

 

 

Edited April 6, 2017 by Ron Ecker

[Ron Ecker]

11 minutes ago, James DiEugenio said:

Ron we all know there was a decoy hearse, but that is not what you said.

I said exactly what I meant to say. It is a matter of record that the hearse with the Dallas casket arrived at the front entrance of Bethesda. According to Lipsey (corroborated by at least two other military men whose names I don't remember), another hearse delivered the body to a rear entrance.

The use of the term "decoy ambulance" would, I assume, refer to an ambulance without the body. The ambulance that arrived at the front entrance with the Dallas casket was thus the decoy ambulance.

 

[James DiEugenio]

PB: One of Lifton's points is that he believes the plan to control the autopsy was in place before the assassination. Do you think otherwise?

Ever since I read FIick's testimony at the Shaw trial, and talked to O'Connor in Dallas at the first ASK Symposium, I have been convinced that the autopsy was planned to be controlled by the military brass in advance.  And that it was likely supervised by LeMay.  The more I read on this, how the Justice Department went nuts after FInck's testimony, and what FInck told Wecht back in 1965--that he would not believe what went on in that autopsy room, this has just been more evidence of that.  

I believe what occurred is what I outlined in Reclaiming Parkland. That the pathologists were controlled in what they could and could not do. And that afterwards there was some real subterfuge with the exhibits.  I mean does anyone really think they were preparing a bust of Kennedy right after the assassination? Give me a break. How do particle trails disappear from x rays? (RP pgs 152, 153, 160)

Those kinds of things simply do not happen under normal circumstances.  Arlen Specter had a lot to cover up, and did he ever.  To read his examination of the pathologists today is to watch an atrocity occurring. Someone should have made a citizen's arrest. But that was not what Walter Craig was there for.

Edited April 6, 2017 by James DiEugenio

[Michael Clark]

On 4/5/2017 at 3:33 PM, Michael Clark said:

Deleted.not enough info.

I 

I am seeing Mr. Lifton on line. Bumping in case he cares to comment.

Cheers

Michael

Edited April 7, 2017 by Michael Clark

[Ron Ecker]

1 hour ago, Paul Trejo said:

After spending MONTHS of sheep-dipping Lee Harvey Oswald in a Fake FPCC in New Orleans -- using newspaper, radio and TV -- and after linking Oswald's name with KGB assassin Kostikov in Mexico City -- after all that tremendous effort to make Oswald out to be a Red --

then just, out of the blue, "it was decided not to blame it on Cuba"?!

That doesn't make sense to me.

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

The plan to blame it on Cuba was abandoned when Oswald, a patsy to be identified as one of the Castro shooters, was taken alive. The decision was made to blame it all on Oswald (which would require a mess of an autopsy) and get rid of him ASAP even if it meant shooting him in the basement of police headquarters on live TV.

Who knows what all factors went into the decision, but it is worth noting that some "Oswald luggage" was reportedly found at the Mexico City airport, which luggage disappeared, the charade abandoned, when Oswald got arrested instead of being on his way to Mexico City or wherever. (Final destination a graveyard or plane crash at sea "on the way to Cuba".)

 

Edited April 6, 2017 by Ron Ecker

[Gerry Simone]

5 hours ago, Paul Trejo said:

DVP,

The alleged "photograph" you reproduce is an expert retouching of the original, which shows a massive hole in the lower back right skull.

The little flap that sticks out of the right part of the skull may match that little freeze-frame which somebody cherry-picked, but it doesn't match the full Zapruder head explosion.

Please watch the video quartet presented by our own Pat Speer at www.patspeer.com and tell me what you think of Pat's theory.  I think it's brilliant.

Each video in the quartet is only about 7 minutes long, so it's not too much.  Or, you might just watch the second video in the series for an overview.

That little flap that sticks out of the right part of the skull is part of the actual wound as shown in the X-ray (when it is turned back to its normal position from the sideways position the HSCA had turned it).

Let me know!

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

Wasn't it Robert Groden in High Treason who noted that one can discern the matte line in THAT autopsy photo?

[Gerry Simone]

1 hour ago, Ron Ecker said:

I said exactly what I meant to say. It is a matter of record that the hearse with the Dallas casket arrived at the front entrance of Bethesda. According to Lipsey (corroborated by at least two other military men whose names I don't remember), another hearse delivered the body to a rear entrance.

The use of the term "decoy ambulance" would, I assume, refer to an ambulance without the body. The ambulance that arrived at the front entrance with the Dallas casket was thus the decoy ambulance.

 

Yes.  Unbeknownst to the official entourage, which arrived after the shipping casket was first received by the morgue, the presidential casket was supposedly empty.

[Gerry Simone]

3 hours ago, Paul Brancato said:

My question for all the people that believe this is why didn't we invade Cuba? Those who believe this see Hoover and LBJ and others in the WH as not being part of the conspiracy. Indeed, some, like Trejo, find this to be an heroic decision. If the plotters wanted an invasion of Cuba, and planned a military style ambush without thought to cover that up, why fake the sniper's nest? I would have to presume that you, Cliff, Paul, Ron, and possibly others, think the sniper's nest was real. I sure don't. 

They had to fake the sniper's nest to pin it on Oswald, who was ostensibly pro-Castro.  That was the beginning of the charade.  But Oswald lived long enough to force Plan B into action.

As far as Hoover being a hero, my brain is reminding me that he was a rabid anti-Communist, so you'd think that he would want an invasion of Cuba.  But calmer minds prevailed. LBJ and Hoover didn't want to risk being in a nuclear holocaust I guess, but what also motivated them was to survive and live happily in a world without John F. Kennedy, who they mutually despised if not hated.  Ergo the LN lie.

[Cliff Varnell]

1 hour ago, Ron Ecker said:

The plan to blame it on Cuba was abandoned when Oswald, a patsy to be identified as one of the Castro shooters, was taken alive. The decision was made to blame it all on Oswald (which would require a mess of an autopsy) and get rid of him ASAP even if it meant shooting him in the basement of police headquarters on live TV.

Continuity-of-government types prevailed.

The President Has Been Shot. Charles Roberts  (p. 141) A reporter for Newsweek Roberts was on AFI and met McGeorge Bundy at Andrews.

<quote on>
I remember looking at (McGeorge) Bundy because I was wondering if he had any word of what had happened in the world while we were in transit, whether this assassination was part of a plot. And he told me later that what he reported to the president during that flight back was that the whole world was stunned, but there was no evidence of a conspiracy at all.

<quote off>

Jack Valenti – in “A Very Human President” (1973, p3)

<quote on>

Shortly before 7:00 P.M., I escorted Senator J. William Fulbright, chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, and Ambassador Averell Harriman into the office. I fidgeted outside, in the middle of what would have appeared to be an objective onlooker to be a mélange of confusion. No one of the Johnson aides, Marie Fehmer, his secretary; the late Cliff Carter, his chief political agent; Bill Moyers, nor any of the rest, was quite certain of what lay ahead. We were all busy on the phone and trying to assemble what measure of office discipline we could construct.

<quote off>

The Assassination Tapes, Max Holland, pg 57:

<quote on>

At 6:55 p.m. Johnson has a ten minute meeting with Senator J. William Fulbright and diplomat W. Averell Harriman to discuss possible foreign involvement in the assassination, especially in light of the two-and-a-half-year sojourn of Lee Harvey [in Russia]...Harriman, a U.S. ambassador to Moscow during WWII, is an experienced interpreter of Soviet machinations and offers the president the unanimous view of the U.S. government's top Kremlinologists. None of them believe the Soviets have a hand in the assassination, despite the Oswald association.

<quote off>

The key continuity of government figures were the Skull & Bones boys -- Harriman and Bundy -- who let the Commies off the hook, and authored the LN scenario.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 6, 2017 by Cliff Varnell

[James DiEugenio]

Like many things, Jim Douglass has the best explanation for this.

The fake tapes from MC.  Which LBJ  referred to to get Warren on the Commission.

Edited April 6, 2017 by James DiEugenio

[Micah Mileto]

12 hours ago, Paul Trejo said:

Ollie,

There's a brilliant video quartet by our own Pat Speer at www.patspeer.com which explains how the large hole in the lower back right of the skull was very simply faked to appear at the top front right of the skull.

The HSCA surgeons simply turned the X-ray sideways!   Honestly -- just sideways!

That was shown, IMHO, brilliantly by Pat Speer.

It is an elegant confirmation to the original work done by David Lifton in the 1970's, and completely validates his pre-autopsy autopsy hypothesis with regard to the JFK assassination.

My only difference with David Lifton today is with regard to my Benign Theory of the pre-autopsy autopsy, which I outlined here this morning.

Regards
--Paul Trejo

The open-cranium photo was taken after the brain was removed. As shown in uncropped versions of the back wound photograph, the cranial opening was extended all the way to the occipital bone. So if you accept that the open-cranium photos depict the posterior skull, it doesn't really make a statement to the nature of the original head wound.

Side note: since the cranial opening was almost certainly extended to the left of the midline, as shown in the uncropped back wound photo, then that alone should debunk the cowlick entry theory because Dr. Finck always referred to being able to see the entire small head wound in the skull, after he arrived when the cranial hole was already enlarged for the brain to be removed. So if you want to believe that the depressed cowlick fracture is the entry wound Finck always referred to, you would probably have to go ahead and say he only saw it when skull fragments were pieced together.

 

Edited April 6, 2017 by Micah Mileto

[James DiEugenio]

Nice observation Micah.  On both points.

[Sandy Larsen]

4 hours ago, Micah Mileto said:

The open-cranium photo was taken after the brain was removed. As shown in uncropped versions of the back wound photograph, the cranial opening was extended all the way to the occipital bone. So if you accept that the open-cranium photos depict the posterior skull, it doesn't really make a statement to the nature of the original head wound.

Side note: since the cranial opening was almost certainly extended to the left of the midline, as shown in the uncropped back wound photo, then that alone should debunk the cowlick entry theory because Dr. Finck always referred to being able to see the entire small head wound in the skull, after he arrived when the cranial hole was already enlarged for the brain to be removed. So if you want to believe that the depressed cowlick fracture is the entry wound Finck always referred to, you would probably have to go ahead and say he only saw it when skull fragments were pieced together.

 

 

Micah,

I'm trying to follow what you are saying here. The problem is that I can't find a back wound photo that shows the cranial opening. (The uncropped version of the photo, I guess.) Can you point me to one?

 

Edited April 6, 2017 by Sandy Larsen