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Deathbed confession? FBI Doyle Williams planted CE399-?


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[J. Doyle Williams [see Reasonable Doubt, pp. 71-72 (based on Feb. 1983 interview); see also 18 H 795-796 (Berger), 798-799 (Johnsen); 21 H 261 (Price); RIF#18010082-10454: 1/31/78 HSCA interview of SS agent Tim McIntyre; Also: Bloody Treason, pp. 90, 91, 93, 96, and 110; 5 H 132, 144; 18 H 96 and Pictures Of The Pain, p. 105: photo of Williams; 22 H 841, 910; 23 H 681; 24 H 523; No More Silence, pp. 130 and 164. Doyle Williams was also the man who portrayed Connally in the Arlen Specter/follow-up car (limousine) re-enactments, wearing Connally's actual jacket]

 

From another forum today:

"James Suggs--- The oddest thing I'm from Ft. Worth, Recently I was talking about JFK with an old friend I trust. He said his friend had told him that his uncle, Doyle Williams, who had been an FBI agent back then, had made sort of a deathbed confession that he had been the one that had placed the bullet found on the gurney at Parkland Hospital. Can Mr. Williams being an agent then, here(?), his whereabouts on 11/22/63 and whatever else be confirmed perchance."

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Well, here we have documentation verifying agent Williams presence in Parkland during the time frame the reported death bed confession referenced.

Wonder if Vince Palamara could track down William's nephew ( or any other relatives ) and get more direct closer hand info?

 

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And as many researchers here are probably already aware, J. Doyle Williams was also the FBI "stand-in" for John Connally during the May 23 - 24, 1964 Warren Commission reconstruction in Dallas. Williams was actually taller than Connally by some3+", which also had the potential to present further problems during this same reconstruction. And with all do respect to my good friend and fellow researcher, Vince Palamara, I find it highly unlikely that Williams would have "planted" what was to become CE 399. The first question that would have to be asked, if this were true, is from where did Williams get the spent 6.5mm WCC bullet that is a theoretical match to CE C2766?

 

Gary

Edited by Gary Murr
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48 minutes ago, Gary Murr said:

from where did Williams get the spent 6.5mm WCC bullet that is a theoretical match to CE C2766?

 

Well, whoever planted the bullet had to get it from somewhere. If Williams planted it, I think the answer is easy. He got it from the FBI.

 

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Unfortunately the answer is not that "easy." As my lengthy research into this subject matter revealed, until the events of November 22, 1963 occurred, no one in the employ of the FBI, and in particular any employee of the FBI lab, had ever heard or seen this ammunition - no one. The vaunted FBI lab had none of this ammunition in their vast collection of ammunition  maintained for comparative purposes - not one round. It was not until the precise identification of the WCC ammunition was obtained that the lab sent individual employees scurrying in an attempt to find any of this ammunition, initially acquiring a small quantity of same from private individuals/citizens in the greater New York/Baltimore area who were contacted via telephone by members of the FBI lab while they waited on the arrival of evidence from Dallas. The FBI did not receive full boxes of 20 rounds of this ammunition until at least 36 to 48 hours after the assassination event itself. And while it is true that this ammunition was obtainable at scattered locations throughout the state of Texas, and in particular in the Fort Worth - Dallas area, there is nothing to confirm any FBI employee's purchase of this same ammunition from any of these locations, particularly an agent who was, at minimum, 6' 4" tall. The entire concept advanced by Robert Frazier during his testimony session of March 31, 1964 that this ammunition was readily obtainable and in substantial quantities is a misnomer and the FBI never possessed large quantities of this ammunition at anytime during their investigation into the assassination.

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Gary,

You are talking about official FBI records about this kind of ammunition, right? Well, whoever planted the bullet was complicit in the plot. And if the FBI was complicit in the plot (i.e. if Williams was given the bullet by Federal Bogus Investigations to plant in the hospital), then it's not surprising that there is no official record of the FBI ever having or having "heard of" this ammunition. It was all done on the sly, as they say.

 

 

 

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Thanks, everyone. I have mixed emotions about this one (too): on the one hand, very tantalizing and compelling...on the other hand, where is the (hard) proof? Reminds me of the neighbor of Sam Kinney, yet Sam himself, in three detailed conversations with me, never even hinted at what the neighbor espoused.

I will see what I can do about a follow up to this.

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Ron:

No I am not "talking about official FBI records about this ammunition." What I am talking about is the true historical record of the construction and distribution of this ammunition after it was manufactured in 1954 by the Western Cartridge Company. There was no "official" FBI record of this ammunition prior to the evening of November 22, 1963, for the simple reason that they had never heard of the ammunition up to that point in time - no "sly" involved. Part of this may have been because up to this same point in time this ammunition had not been involved in the commission of a crime, at least not a crime known to the FBI. And as far as my ten year research on this ammunition was able to discover, outside of the use of this military ammunition during times of war, I know of no crime committed within the continental U. S. that involved this same ammunition. What I am basing my conclusion of the FBI personnel's search for any of this ammunition is the rough work notes prepared by Jay Cochran, Robert Frazier and others in the employ of the FBI lab once they were confronted with the actual bullet and shell casings themselves. Because of their efforts one eventually is able to conclude that they did discover more about the actual pre November 11, 1963 history of this ammunition than they ever revealed to members of the Warren Commission staff. Whether this same history it is directly pertinent to the assassination event itself is debatable. But what it does show is that this ammunition was never manufactured as a result of a request on behalf of the CIA and thereafter hidden behind an order placed by the U. S. Marines, as "reported" via memorandum by Cochran and the FBI. What you do discover, once you know the true history, is that the ammunition was scheduled for manufacture and distribution to its true client by the end of 1952. The how and why of the delay of this same contractual agreement, resulting in the two year delay in its completion, is a story for another time. The point that should not be lost here is that the ammunition was and is basically "rare," making its eventual theoretical "choice" as the ballistic implement of "discovery" of death all the more intriguing.

 

Edited by Gary Murr
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22 hours ago, Pat Speer said:

Doyle Williams was the FBI's man at the hospital, as confirmed by this memo:

 

http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg Subject Index Files/D Disk/DeLoach Cartha/Item 26.pdf

FWIW:

1. Doyle Williams was the FBI agent who was physically attacked--by SS Agent Andrew Berger, I believe--and knocked down and sent sprawling to the floor.

2. I interviewed Doyle Williams, on camera--a fully professionally filmed interview--in June or July 1990.  The interview lasted at least an hour.

3. Doyle Williams, imho, was a complete straight arrow.  I cannot conceive of him being involved in a plot to harm Kennedy or to participate in a criminal scheme to falsify the facts of JFK's death.  Based on the time I spent with him, I find it bizarre that anyone would suggest any such thing.

4. Going by my memory, here are other points I'd like to make:

a. Williams went through the whole business of him being assaulted, and knocked to the floor.

b. Williams was trained in karate, and made a deliberate decision not to fight back. He could have, and there could have been serious injuries.

c. While he was lying on the floor, having just been knocked down by SS Agent Berger, SS Agent Kellerman came over, leaned down, and said to him, quietly, "Perhaps you'd better leave."  The way Doyle related this incident to me was was quite graphic, and the impression I got --and has been reinforced by other data--is that Kellerman had ice water in his veins and was a cold blooded individual. The notion that an SS agent would lean down and tell an FBI agent, sprawled out on the floor, "Perhaps  you'd better leave," made an indelible impression, and I find it outrageous.

d. Everything I have described above is recorded on film.

DSL

5/30/2016 - 8:55 PDT

Los Angeles, California

Edited by David Lifton
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4 hours ago, Gary Murr said:

The point that should not be lost here is that the ammunition was and is basically "rare," making its eventual theoretical "choice" as the ballistic implement of "discovery" of death all the more intriguing.

 

And my point is that the bullet, as rare as it was, was planted by somebody. If it was Williams (and David Lifton is certain it wasn't), I have no grounds to dispute what you say about the FBI never having heard of this ammunition. So I think it's safe to say, then, that Williams or whoever it was was given the bullet by someone outside of the FBI. 

Edited by Ron Ecker
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On 5/29/2017 at 6:31 PM, Vince Palamara said:

"James Suggs--- The oddest thing I'm from Ft. Worth, Recently I was talking about JFK with an old friend I trust. He said his friend had told him that his uncle, Doyle Williams, who had been an FBI agent back then, had made sort of a deathbed confession that he had been the one that had placed the bullet found on the gurney at Parkland Hospital. Can Mr. Williams being an agent then, here(?), his whereabouts on 11/22/63 and whatever else be confirmed perchance."

Vince, How does this jive with the Sam Kinney confession?

 

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