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The Paine Files


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On 7/18/2017 at 9:53 PM, Ron Bulman said:

I'd like to clarify something I kind of alluded to in an earlier post that has developed further in thought.  Michael Paine was pointing his finger at Oswald from the get-go and a "files" comment supports this.  He showed up unannounced during the search of the house on the 22nd.  Deputy Walthers remembered talking to him "over the ironing board". "How does the guy think, what is he, what does he do?"  He said, "He's a Communist.  He is very communistic minded.  He believes in it."  And he says, "He used to try to convince me it was a good thing," and he says, "I don't believe in it".  Shortly after this a letter was pulled out of one of the six or seven small metal file cabinets that had a letterhead on it.  "and a letterhead that this Paine fellow had told us about, and he said, "That's from the people he writes to in Russia"  I.E., those are his files, not ours?  I know, speculations, jumping to conclusions.  Illogical?

Maybe we need to bump this post too for Greg.  Paine telling Walthers over the ironing board "He's a Communist".  If that's not Michael implicating Lee I don't know what is.

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46 minutes ago, Ron Bulman said:

History Matters Archive - Warren Commission Hearings, Volume XIX, pg (history-matters.com)

"Also found was a set of metal file cabinets containing records that appeared to be names and activities of Cuban sympathizers.  All of this evidence was confiscated and turned over to Captian Fritz of the Dallas Police Department and the Secret Service officers at the city hall."  Walthers report 11/23/63. 

There were ca. 7 metal boxes. 3 were Ruth Paine's, later returned to her. Ca. 4 were Oswald's. Oswald did FPCC activity in New Orleans and in Dallas, whereas Ruth Paine had no known involvement in any pro-Cuban or anti-Cuban activity. None of Ruth Paine's metal boxes had that kind of material in them according to every, without exception, law enforcement officer who looked at the contents and reported on the contents of Ruth Paine's files. On the other hand DPD records show extensive material among Oswald's belongings related to his FPCC activity, activity which is disputed by no one.

Therefore could you speak to the point: why are you denying whatever Walthers saw was Oswald material in Oswald metal boxes, in agreement with all known records of the property seized from the Paine garage? On what grounds are you trying to pin this on Ruth Paine, in opposition to all DPD and FBI records? Please give a straight answer to this question before raising anything new. 

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4 minutes ago, Greg Doudna said:

There were ca. 7 metal boxes. 3 were Ruth Paine's, later returned to her. Ca. 4 were Oswald's. Oswald did FPCC activity in New Orleans and in Dallas, whereas Ruth Paine had no known involvement in any pro-Cuban or anti-Cuban activity. None of Ruth Paine's metal boxes had that kind of material in them according to every, without exception, law enforcement officer who looked at the contents and reported on the contents of Ruth Paine's files. On the other hand DPD records show extensive material among Oswald's belongings related to his FPCC activity, activity which is disputed by no one.

Therefore could you speak to the point: why are you denying whatever Walthers saw was Oswald material in Oswald metal boxes, in agreement with all known records of the property seized from the Paine garage? On what grounds are you trying to pin this on Ruth Paine, in opposition to all DPD and FBI records? Please give a straight answer to this question before raising anything new. 

3 were Ruth's, 4 were Oswald's where do you get this stuff Greg?  Any documentation?  How did Oswald tote his four around from Fort Worth to Dallas to New Orleans to Dallas.  He told Ruth he hitch hiked to Dallas per her.  A bit of luggage for a hitch hiker.

 

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I think you're trolling now, I hope not all along, since I gave this documentation just two posts of mine above, plus testimony on how Lee and Marina property was conveyed including any papers in metal boxes, nothing to do with hitchhiking. On seven metal boxes total taken, thought to be Oswald's, report of J. L. Oxford: "about 7 metal boxes which contained pamphlets and literature from abroad", http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/oxford1.htm. For 3 of those metal boxes turning out to be Ruth Paine's taken by mistake, leaving the remaining 4 as Oswald's, below. You can have any last words and I'll close here. 

 img_56999_77_300.png      

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I'm trolling you?  Funny, with your long distracting posts.   What this comes down to is which do you trust most.  His Friday night right after it happened Sheriff's Department report of 6 or 7 boxes of Castro supporter info.  Or what the FBI says it found out about four days later in a cop's office concerning 3 boxes of Ruth's fluff.  Cover for Walther's 6 or 7?  

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  • 4 months later...

The FBI found 10,000 pages in the three metal file boxes - and apparently kept no copies.  They said they would turn it all over to the WC and let them decide - even of her diary.  They provide a list based on "quick perusal".

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=57758#relPageId=132&search="metal_boxes"

To be scrupulously fair, Ruth argued that she did not give consent for them to remove her personal documents from her bedroom closet, and that many of the documents were personal and/or referred to marital discord of her parents.

But Ruth told them to return only what was "pertinent" - apparently the FBI returned everything - but I want to see the proof of return.  Looking for that.

The FBI did have in their files - by whatever means - four letters from Ruth to Marina, one in May, two in July, one in August - we can assume those were in Marina's possession.  I do believe the WC published these.

On another date, I'll let you know what the WC did with Ruth's material, including the three metal boxes and the diary - I've wondered about this for awhile.

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Hey Bill:

Probably old news to you, but as the link below indicates, though the FBI and WC discussed this subject matter in late January, 1964, note that the FBI did not return these materials to Ruth until late April, 1964.  FWIW

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=9988#relPageId=117&search=SULLIVAN_BRANNIGAN RUTH PAINE METAL CABINET 

 

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Posted (edited)
On 7/21/2017 at 8:57 AM, Paul Brancato said:

Or they would have leant credence to the idea that Oswald was part of an intelligence operation.

Bingo.  And the Paine's as well.

Edited by Ron Bulman
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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, Joseph McBride said:

Calvin, could you please post the rest of that document? That website link seems iffy. And what is the provenance and context of the affidavit?

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Edited by Calvin Ye
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