National Archives release first batch of 2017 JFK documents

[Douglas Caddy]

Quote

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/08/03/jfk-assassination-lone-gunman-cia-new-files-215449?cid=apn

 

 

[Chris Newton]

39 minutes ago, Douglas Caddy said:

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/08/03/jfk-assassination-lone-gunman-cia-new-files-215449?cid=apn

 

there are a number of questionable statements in the article above but where do they get this (bold mine- CN):

Quote

None of the files released last week undermines the Warren Commission’s finding that Oswald killed Kennedy with shots fired from his perch on the sixth floor of the Texas School Book Depository in Dallas’ Dealey Plaza—a conclusion supported by 21st century forensic analysis—and that there was no credible evidence of a second gunman.

 

[Paul Trejo]

On 8/5/2017 at 11:00 AM, Douglas Caddy said:

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/08/03/jfk-assassination-lone-gunman-cia-new-files-215449?cid=apn

 

Douglas,

Thanks for this link from Politico.com.  Here' my feedback.  After the JFK assassination, the CIA jumped on board the FBI's Lone Nut theory of Lee Harvey Oswald.  In 1963-1964 the CIA evidently agreed that Oswald, an amateur double-agent, allegedly shot JFK with a $21 mail-order rifle, and there was absolute zero evidence of any conspiracy, foreign or domestic.

Clearly, the CIA would have been to blame for failing to detect a foreign conspiracy -- that was their job.  The FBI job was to detect any domestic conspiracy.   LBJ obliged the US Government to stand together on this -- but with these recent releases from NARA of partially unreleased JFK documents, we are learning that the CIA had, over the years, secretly worried that the FBI story was dirty.  

After the Jim Garrison debacle, CIA officials talked among themselves about how the FBI, the Secret Service and the Warren Commission failed to follow up on important clues about Oswald’s contacts with Cuban and Soviet elements.

A Texas newspaper had reported in mid-1963 that JFK was trying to assassinate Castro.  Maybe that was what motivated Oswald -- but if so, how did the CIA fail to detect an international plot to kill JFK?  Hmm.  The CIA knew for a fact that the US Government tried to kill Fidel Castro many times.  The CIA even made deals with the Mafia for help in this during JFK's term in office. 

Anyway, no great revelations yet -- but it has only been one week since NARA has released these thousands of documents. 

According to this article that you shared, Douglas, NARA is still scheduled to reveal a final batch of about 3,100 never-before-seen JFK-assassination files by October 26th, unless blocked by President Trump.

Since the HSCA (1979) and the subsequent movie, JFK (1992), by Oliver Stone, along with several FOIA judgments, the public has learned that FBI officials repeatedly lied to the Warren Commission, most likely to conceal their own bungling in surveillance of Oswald in 1963.

For example, the wire-tap of Ruth Paine's home phone on the very day of the JFK assassination remains shrouded in mystery.  Who ordered that wire-tap?  Ruth Paine still demands to know to this very day.

As for the secrets of the CIA, to this very day the Mexico City episode of Lee Harvey Oswald is disputed by dozens of writers from James Hosty to Oleg Nechiporkeno to David Lifton to Bill Simpich.

Marina Oswald testified forcefully and repeatedly that Lee Oswald was only going to Cuba, and not to the USSR.  Yet even her direct data is disputed.

The CIA's Hardway-Lopez report of Oswald in Mexico City was withheld by the US Government until the 1990's, when it came out in dribs and drabs, and was only finally released in 2002.  Yet by this time, some CTers refuse to accept even the Lopez Report.

The Mexico City Press also had a field day in December, 1963, spreading gossip about Lee Harvey Oswald and the Cuban Consulate clerk Silvia Duran, and some writers even gave the CIA false affidavits claiming Oswald took money from Cuban agents to kill JFK, and was overheard threatening JFK -- only to retract these statements later.

Soviet KGB agent Oleg Nechiporenko (Passport to Assassination, 1993) admitted that he and KGB agent Valery Kostikov, spent some hours with Lee Harvey Oswald in the last week of September in Mexico City's Soviet Embassy -- but they concluded that Oswald was a lunatic.

In summary, during the rest of 2017, JFK researchers will tie on their feed-bag with regard to these thousands of NARA releases.

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

Edited August 7, 2017 by Paul Trejo
typos

[Sandy Larsen]

18 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

If this process keeps up--that is more and more documents which should not have been withheld now finally being released--then I really think the ARRB needs to be reevaluated..  We may have been too soft on them.

Jim,

Isn't it possible --  likely actually --  that RELEVANT documents may have been deemed IRRELEVANT merely due to the ARRB reviewer's ignorance or inability to connect dots?

A week ago I watched a video of Jeremy Gunn giving a presentation on the ARRB. I recall his saying that he personally knew there were no damning documents in the 2017 batch. I remember thinking, well how do you know that. A document may need to be understood in context in order to see its relevance. And surely nobody on the ARRB staff knew so much and had enough time to evaluate the relevance of every single document.

Personally I am much more angered by most the pages not being readable. There is no excuse for that. The ARRB should have demanded better copies.

 

[Andrej Stancak]

On 8/4/2017 at 10:21 PM, Paul Trejo said:

Andrej,

Your connection of Earle Cabell with the Radical Right in Dallas is enough data, actually.

There is no need to go any further than that, according to the 2015 Walker-did-it CT by Jeff Caufield.

I agree with your suspicion that Earle Cabell was a member of the JFK murder conspiracy.  Yet there is no need to bring the CIA into this, and thus no need to bring his brother, CIA senior Charles Cabell.

It remains as irrelevant that JFK fired Charles Cabell as it is irrelevant that JFK fired Allen Dulles.  What matters is the chain of evidence.

The CIA-did-it CT has had 50 years to prove its case, and it continues to fail miserably, and is dying a slow death before our eyes.

By the way, George De Morendschildt and other white Russian emigrés, e.g. George Bouhe were as Anti-fascist as they were Anti-communist, so you're mistaken to suspect them, IMHO.

It's the truly fascist element that should be suspected here -- not the FBI, the CIA, the Pentagon or even the Mafia.

It's the Radical Right.  Have you read Jeff Caufield's 2015 CT? 

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

Paul:

I read about 80% of the >1000 page tome. I do not have the book in my hands at the moment since I am away from home, however, I remember checking his book some weeks ago as to what it would say about Earle Cabell, and there was practically zero information about Cabell in the entire book. 

I am involved in the assassination research for too a short time to be able to say authoritatively that CIA played no role in Kennedy's assassination, and that all was the doing of the local Dallas right-wingers led by General Walker. However, I cannot ignore the information which I learned during my study so far such as John Newman's work on CIA, Jim Garrison's epic fight for the truth (and indeed The Crossfire), Dick Russel's research on Oswald's involvement with the intelligence world conveyed by Richard Case Nagell, and I should not forget Peter Dale Scott and also LaFontaines' and Larry Hancock's books. It is difficult not to see that Oswald was manipulated for quite a while and eventually led to become a patsy.

The new revelation of Earle Cabell being a CIA asset is unusually important. This is the "deep politics" for real: a person having  strong links with powerful right-winger friends and being in position to manipulate the police department was also associated with the CIA on a basis of a written contract. He was able to send/receive calls from both the local law enforcement and the governmental intelligence circles. 

Edited August 6, 2017 by Andrej Stancak

[Chris Newton]

15 minutes ago, Andrej Stancak said:

The new revelation of Earle Cabell being a CIA asset is unusually important. This is the "deep politics" for real: a person having  strong links with powerful right-winger friends and being in position to manipulate the police department was also associated with the CIA on a basis of a written contract. He was able to send/receive calls from both the local law enforcement and the governmental intelligence circles. 

Andre,

There's also some interesting correspondence between Earle Cabell and Alan Dulles in the Dulles archives at Princeton University concerning the Dulles trip to Dallas shortly before the assassination. No smoking guns, but "interesting" nonetheless and maybe more interesting after this reveal.

[Paul Trejo]

7 hours ago, Andrej Stancak said:

Paul,

I read about 80% of the >1000 page tome...

...The new revelation of Earle Cabell being a CIA asset is unusually important.

This is the "deep politics" for real: a person having  strong links with powerful right-winger friends and being in position to manipulate the police department was also associated with the CIA on a basis of a written contract.

He was able to send/receive calls from both the local law enforcement and the governmental intelligence circles. 

Andrej,

I'm pleased that you've read Jeff Caufield's CT in his book, General Walker and the Murder of President Kennedy: the Extensive New Evidence of a Radical Right Conspiracy (2015).  This tells me a lot about your orientation.  (Also, thanks for naming other authors you've read on the JFK assassination.)

Caufield's book reminds me of a passage from Joachim Joesten -- IIRC it was in Oswald -- Assassin or Fall Guy? (1964), in the first chapter, entitled, "When the cops are the culprits," and Joesten quoted from General Charles De Gaulle who said something like, "In cases like this, the local police are always involved!" 

I believe that several rogues from the Dallas Police Department, and also from the Dallas Sheriff's office, and even Dallas Postmaster Inspector Harry D Holmes supported this Radical Right plot in Dallas.  I feel certain that Earle Cabell was also involved.

So, I'm not in the least bit surprised to learn that Dallas Mayor Earle Cabell was also a CIA informant.  Please allow me to quote Tracy Parnell's post from yesterday:

On 8/4/2017 at 3:06 PM, W. Tracy Parnell said:

If Earl Cabell was not a CIA informer, that would be surprising given his brother's connections. What the "CIA-did-it" crowd has to prove is that the Cabell brothers were involved in a plot to kill JFK. Then you'll have something.

I tend to agree.  Since Earle's brother, Charles Cabell, was very high up in the CIA, it would be surprising if Earle wasn't a CIA informer.  

The CIA connection isn't what makes Earle part of the JFK plot -- it was Earle's association with the Dallas Radical Right that makes him part of the plot, IMHO.

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

Edited August 6, 2017 by Paul Trejo

[Michael Clark]

......

Edited August 6, 2017 by Michael Clark

[Andrej Stancak]

8 hours ago, Chris Newton said:

Andre,

There's also some interesting correspondence between Earle Cabell and Alan Dulles in the Dulles archives at Princeton University concerning the Dulles trip to Dallas shortly before the assassination. No smoking guns, but "interesting" nonetheless and maybe more interesting after this reveal.

Thanks, Chris, for pointing to Dulles-Cabell correspondence. This appears to be very relevant in the context of the new revelation of Cabell being a CIA asset.

[Chris Newton]

2 minutes ago, Andrej Stancak said:

Thanks, Chris, for pointing to Dulles-Cabell correspondence.

I should have provided a link

https://findingaids.princeton.edu/collections/MC019/#summary

[Andrej Stancak]

1 hour ago, Paul Trejo said:

Andrej,

I'm pleased that you've read Jeff Caufield's CT in his book, General Walker and the Murder of President Kennedy: the Extensive New Evidence of a Radical Right Conspiracy (2015).  This tells me a lot about your orientation.  (Also, thanks for naming other authors you've read on the JFK assassination.)

Caufield's book reminds me of a passage from Joachim Joesten -- IIRC it was in Oswald -- Assassin or Fall Guy? (1964), in the first chapter, entitled, "When the cops are the culprits," and Joesten quoted from General Charles De Gaulle who said something like, "In cases like this, the local police are always involved!" 

I believe that several rogues from the Dallas Police Department, and also from the Dallas Sheriff's office, and even Dallas Postmaster Inspector Harry D Holmes supported this Radical Right plot in Dallas.  I feel certain that Earle Cabell was also involved.

So, I'm not in the least bit surprised to learn that Dallas Mayor Earle Cabell was also a CIA informant.  Please allow me to quote Tracy Parnell's post from yesterday:

I tend to agree.  Since Earle's brother, Charles Cabell, was very high up in the CIA, it would be surprising if Earle wasn't a CIA informer.  

The CIA connection isn't what makes Earle part of the JFK plot -- it was Earle's association with the Dallas Radical Right that makes him part of the plot, IMHO.

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

Paul:

what proof of Cabell's involvement  do  you expect? A confession? A letter signed by Cabell asking Chief Curry to get rid of Lee Harvey Oswald? 

The assassination plot went on using words of mouth, and even those were only semi-coded hints, and therefore there will be no hard proof. The proof would have been Lee Harvey Oswald himself who would be able to prove his innocence as President's assassin had he come to a trial, and the prosecutor would have to launch a proper investigation. Oswald did not make it thanks to the work of Dallas Police Department. It was Earle Cabell and the city manager Elgin Crull who insisted that Oswald would be paraded in front of tens of cameramen and photographers. That decision meant the difference of Oswald being alive and talking or dead and silenced. An essential intervention of Earle Cabell, would you agree? 

[James DiEugenio]

18 hours ago, Sandy Larsen said:

Jim,

Isn't it possible --  likely actually --  that RELEVANT documents may have been deemed IRRELEVANT merely due to the ARRB reviewer's ignorance or inability to connect dots?

A week ago I watched a video of Jeremy Gunn giving a presentation on the ARRB. I recall his saying that he personally knew there were no damning documents in the 2017 batch. I remember thinking, well how do you know that. A document may need to be understood in context in order to see its relevance. And surely nobody on the ARRB staff knew so much and had enough time to evaluate the relevance of every single document.

Personally I am much more angered by most the pages not being readable. There is no excuse for that. The ARRB should have demanded better copies.

 

 

Sandy I agree about the illegible issue.  There is no excuse for that.  Just like there is no excuse for document still begin withheld or redactions at this date.

 

But from my understanding, the Cabell document was delayed for reasons of NBR.  That is not believed relevant.  Now, if that is the case, then the ARRB needs to be reevaluated in a negative way.  Because no one who was even slightly acquainted with the subject could possibly think that.

[Jim Hargrove]

Documents that Federal agencies, probably for several different reasons, neglected to cover up can help us to understand this case.  Mistakes in the cover-up, especially by the FBI, are of vital importance!

One of the reasons an agency might neglect to suppress a document is if its personnel failed to understand the significance of the information being processed.

The most interesting file I found in the July 2017 NARA release included a lengthy series of docs about Collins Radio.  In the spreadsheet accompanying the file, the Collins Radio material was deemed “probably not relevant,” or words to that effect.

In future releases, I’d look to material deemed “probably not relevant” to discover hints about the truth.

[James DiEugenio]

Jim, is that Collins Radio file longer than the one Bill Kelly has at Countercoup 2?

If it is then it looks like our worst fears about Collins Radio may turn out to be true.

To me, one of the many disgraces about the Warren Commission and the HSCA is that they never got to the bottom of the Wes Wise/Carl Mather episode.

Shouldn't Mather's interview be in here some place?  

Also, it was my understanding that the ARRB allowed for  the NBR status, not the agency.

Edited August 6, 2017 by James DiEugenio

[Paul Trejo]

14 hours ago, Andrej Stancak said:

Paul:

what proof of Cabell's involvement  do  you expect? A confession? A letter signed by Cabell asking Chief Curry to get rid of Lee Harvey Oswald? 

The assassination plot went on using words of mouth, and even those were only semi-coded hints, and therefore there will be no hard proof. The proof would have been Lee Harvey Oswald himself who would be able to prove his innocence as President's assassin had he come to a trial, and the prosecutor would have to launch a proper investigation. Oswald did not make it thanks to the work of Dallas Police Department. It was Earle Cabell and the city manager Elgin Crull who insisted that Oswald would be paraded in front of tens of cameramen and photographers. That decision meant the difference of Oswald being alive and talking or dead and silenced. An essential intervention of Earle Cabell, would you agree? 

Andrej,

What I'm expecting to find in the final NARA releases of JFK material, specifically about Earle Cabell, are his JBS connections with General Walker, as well as with Dallas law enforcement leaders, Jesse Curry, Bill Decker and Will Fritz, and with Harry Holmes and sundry other Dallas officials (like James Hosty and Forrest Sorrels).

I'm also expecting to find in the final NARA releases a shocking revelation from FBI files admitting that Ex-General Edwin Walker was at the center of the Dallas plot to kill JFK.  IMHO, Walker will be shown to have organized the plot months in advance, down the the finest para-military detail.  

IMHO, the FBI high-command knew this, and they chose to suppress the truth for 75 years -- with the support of Earl Warren and LBJ.  (The CIA just went along with this plan.)

BTW, Lee Harvey Oswald would not be able to prove his innocence in any jury trial, for the simple reason that Oswald was guilty of being a part of a larger conspiracy.  At the very, very least, Lee Harvey Oswald handed over his personal rifle to the assassins.  Oswald was part of it.

But Oswald wasn't the center of it.  General Walker was the center of it -- and the FBI knew it.  That's what I expect will be revealed by NARA in 2017.   To get ready for this revolution of a revelation, more readers should join us, Andrej, and read Jeff Caufield's 2015 CT.

Finally, as for Oswald being silenced, it was part of the original plot that Oswald would have been shot in the street by J.D. Tippit -- by my reading.   Since Oswald escaped -- and since there were too many witnesses in the Texas Theater, other measures had to be taken.

In my reading, Jesse Curry and Will Fritz managed the Oswald murder there in the Dallas Police Station.   Of course Earle Cabell approved of it -- as a member of the original plot led by Ex- General Walker, it was implicit.

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

Edited August 6, 2017 by Paul Trejo
typos