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Ruth - a typewriter - 15 days


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10 hours ago, Sandy Larsen said:

If you (or somebody else) could figure out a logical explanation as to why Ruth would intentionally leave out Oswald's draft in the first interview, then there would be some circumstantial evidence of foul play. If not, then perhaps an innocent explanation would better describe it.

Sandy, my theory on this situation is this:

Hosty had already been given the Oswald original draft before the assassination and did not want that fact known so he didn't discuss it with Ruth early on 11/23 with the other Agent present. Therefore, her story wasn't told at all at that time and the fact that Ruth had a copy was still unknown.  Hosty had no way of anticipating that SAIC Shanklin would send another Agent out to re-interview Ruth that very same day (purportedly because Shanklin was suspicious of Hosty's conduct). FBI Agent Odum was thorough and after hearing Ruth's story asked her to turn over her copy of Oswald's draft.

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11 minutes ago, Michael Clark said:

General Walker is Paul Trejo's hero.

Michael let's be fair.

If you had a virtual warehouse full of Walker-did-it ebooks you would be doing the same thing. (like any good capitalist).

For the record, as much as we disagree, I don't think Walker is Mr. Trejo's hero.

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48 minutes ago, Chris Newton said:

Michael let's be fair.

If you had a virtual warehouse full of Walker-did-it ebooks you would be doing the same thing. (like any good capitalist).

For the record, as much as we disagree, I don't think Walker is Mr. Trejo's hero.

Chris, 

Paul's analysis is evolving into, or being revealed-as, an admiration for a person that he considers to be a perpetrator the JFK assassination.

 

 

Edited by Michael Clark
Added "or being revealed-as"
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12 minutes ago, Michael Clark said:

To be sure, Chris, I apologies for following the Walker-Worshppier off topic.I do try to stay on topic.

btw, I recommend reading The Devil's Brigade by Robert Adelman for a fair assessment of Gen. Walker's record & character in WW2.

let's re-wind to Ruth, any objections?

 

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If there aren't any objections to the "numbers" I posted, laying out Ruth's story, we'll go ahead and review each one.

One thing I want to mention before I begin, I have serious concerns about why the Oswald's original draft is in Ruth Paine's Swarthmore archive. If it was written by Lee Harvey Oswald it either belongs in the National Archives or it belongs to Marina. It doesn't become Ruth Paine's property simply because she stole it from Oswald. On the other hand, if Oswald did not write it then an argument could be made that it may actually belong to Ruth Paine.

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6 hours ago, Chris Newton said:

Let's review for a minute why it is that I keep insisting that Ruth Paine told a story that was untrue.

Her story is (per her sworn testimony):

1. Oswald asked if he could use her typewriter. The only table in the house was in the dining area so that is where he used it to type a paper and a corresponding envelope.

2. While Ruth was putting her child in a nearby high chair,  Lee covered and obscured the "draft" that he was typing from Ruth's view.

3. This act of hiding his "draft" raised Ruth's suspicions about what Lee was doing. She did not observe either the draft or the typed document at that time.

4. Sometime after everyone, Ruth, Marina, Lee and their children, returned home from shopping on Saturday Nov. 9th, Ruth noticed a paper folded in half resting on the corner of her desk secretary in the living room.

5. The paper remained there untouched until Sunday morning Nov. 10th when Ruth awoke before the rest of the household and read the paper.

6. The first line she knew to be untrue.

7. At some point she made a copy of the paper.

8. She left the paper where it "resided" on her little desk secretary all day Sunday.

9. Sunday evening she decided to re-arrange furniture in the living room and asked Lee and Michael to help do so.

10. Just before Lee and Michael entered the room, she concealed the paper she had found earlier inside the little desk secretary.

11. Lee and Michael swapped the locations of the little desk secretary and the living room sofa.

12. The sofa was then located, (after the move), along the north wall of the living room and the little desk secretary was next to the east wall.

13. The arrangement would remain that way from Sunday evening, Nov. 10 through Ruth's WC testimony 4 months later.

Any Objections to this?

Chris,

IIRC, in her WC testimony, Ruth Paine said that she had asked Michael and Lee to move her furniture around on that long Veterans Day weekend, but she didn't specify to the WC which days the moving took place -- Friday, Saturday, Sunday or Monday (the holiday) -- or when specific items were moved, or in what order.

On what WC testimony do you specify the actual dates of the moving specific furniture?   Please post that.

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

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48 minutes ago, Paul Trejo said:

Chris,

IIRC, in her WC testimony, Ruth Paine said that she had asked Michael and Lee to move her furniture around on that long Veterans Day weekend, but she didn't specify to the WC which days the moving took place -- Friday, Saturday, Sunday or Monday (the holiday) -- or when specific items were moved, or in what order.

On what WC testimony do you specify the actual dates of the moving specific furniture?   Please post that.

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

Here ya go Paul.

 

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32 minutes ago, Ron Bulman said:

On what WC testimony do you specify the actual dates of the moving specific furniture?   Please post that.

...about halfway down this page she remarks, "I rearranged it on the evening of the 10th of November -"

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=43&relPageId=420

I'm going to come back to this page because we are going to look at the floorplan, CE 430 ,and the notations that Ruth made on that floorplan (which are still visible).

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10 minutes ago, Chris Newton said:

...about halfway down this page she remarks, "I rearranged it on the evening of the 10th of November -"

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=43&relPageId=420

I'm going to come back to this page because we are going to look at the floorplan, CE 430 ,and the notations that Ruth made on that floorplan (which are still visible).

Your post before this shows 37 minutes ago something attributed to me that was by paul.  Not your fault I understand.  Something screwy with the site regarding quotes?

Edited by Ron Bulman
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11 minutes ago, Ron Bulman said:

Your post before this shows 37 minutes ago something attributed to me that was by paul.  Not your fault I understand.  Something screwy with the site regarding quotes?

Nothing screwy. I don't see Paul's posts but when you quoted him and provided the link to my earlier thread I saw it because it was within your post. I'm going to tie this in with David Joseph's assertions but I need to "set the stage" so that my own later assertions will be on solid ground.

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1. Oswald asked if he could use her typewriter. The only table in the house was in the dining area so that is where he used it to type a paper and a corresponding envelope.

I don't want to belabor this point. If everyone agrees that this is correct per Ruth's testimony; that Oswald asked permission to use her typewriter and did so at the dining table, in the kitchen/dining room - I'll just move on.

From the FBI's Gemberling Report here is the Serial Number, model, etc. of the typewriter. If anyone can locate those 3 pages of specimens (D121) that would be a nice find, they are MIA in the records, as far as I can tell.

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=11133&search=Ruth_and+121#relPageId=111&tab=page

 

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10 hours ago, Chris Newton said:

Sandy, my theory on this situation is this:

Hosty had already been given the Oswald original draft before the assassination and did not want that fact known so he didn't discuss it with Ruth early on 11/23 with the other Agent present. Therefore, her story wasn't told at all at that time and the fact that Ruth had a copy was still unknown.  Hosty had no way of anticipating that SAIC Shanklin would send another Agent out to re-interview Ruth that very same day (purportedly because Shanklin was suspicious of Hosty's conduct). FBI Agent Odum was thorough and after hearing Ruth's story asked her to turn over her copy of Oswald's draft.


Chris,

Thanks for sharing your theory. I am intrigued by it and would like to know more, for example how Hosty gained possession of the original draft.

But, of course, I don't want to interrupt the flow of this topic... again. (Sorry about my earlier OT posts. I just couldn't let Paul Trejo's CIA-did-it attack and Walker-did--it promotion go without being answered.)

BTW, I appreciate the timeline (list) you just posted -- the things that transpired at the Paine residence with regard to the Oswald letter. It's useful to see everything at a glance. (Particularly for me because I got behind on my Paine thread reading.) I hope your followup to that will be also be written in a way that can be followed by those of us who don't have a detailed understanding of the material.

 

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5 hours ago, Ron Bulman said:

Here ya go Paul.

 

Ron,

First, you do recognize that we're talking about Ruth Paine's WC testimony where she speaks of moving furniture on the Veterans Day weekend starting the evening of Friday, November 8th, and ending the evening of Monday, November 11th, right?  

Yet this photograph shows Ruth Paine's living room on November 22nd.   It was after the Oswalds and Paines came back from the Dallas Police Department to Ruth Paine's home -- and LIFE magazine was there and took some pictures.

So, where is any WC testimony that suggests that Ruth Paine's furniture was frozen in place from Monday, November 11th to Friday, November 22nd?

Or -- if your question is simply -- AGAINST WHICH WALL IS RUTH PAINE'S COUCH -- then my response is that her couch is against the North Wall.   Not the East.  The North.  Her front door opened from the South -- toward Ruth Paine's right shoulder in this photo.

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

Edited by Paul Trejo
clarity
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